difficulty scales through the roof half way through mission 4

[jetsetsoaper]

I must be doing something wrong, i have been loading and trying different things for hours. redoing things over and over and over, to no avail.

Im only 50 turns in, on the easiest difficulty, and i have been exploring the map on 2-3 fronts the entire time, I can handle all the regular mobs fine, but the enemy wielders are just INSANE. they do more damage than my strongest units, with their spells alone, and they start with 10-15 of each type of mana.

What is the counter to 150+ stacks of skeletons, and 3 troops of high legions? I really want to enjoy this game, and have been thus far, but this scaling is just broken. Even on fights that say "risky" or "fair", I get completely destroyed, no matter how i build my army, or how i try to fight. Even when using all the magic resist gear i can find, they still 1 tap whole troops of mine, with regular spells they cast on the first turn.

I was going to restart the game on a lower difficulty, since this feels impossible, but apparently "fair" is the lowest difficulty. Maybe RNG was just on their side, and I triggered some sort of "retaliation" but getting close to their towns, causing 3 of their wields to come attack all at the same time, despite not seeing any of them the entire game.

But im still hesitant to start the entire mission over. Although, by now, im sure it would have been faster.


Does anyone have any spoiler free tips?

I tried:
-sacrificing armies over and over to weaken their army, even by defending in a town with a garrison, only to watch their 9 troops destroy 30+ of mine.
-rushing the north town to get "help" from them, but their 3 wielders patrol the area a lot, and they can move A LOT further than any of my wielders seem to see.
-upgrading early to boost my units' stats.

[Wondervice]

You forgot to mention which campaign are you talking about. I am guessing Arleon from the context, correct me if I am wrong.
Generally speaking, you are probably way too passive. I finished that map on overwhelming around turn 70, at turn 50 you should already control most of the map. The problem with passivity is that it spirals out of control. By not exploring the map yourself, you give the enemy a chance to do so, and they will not only hoover up resources, but also fight the troops that are scripted to join you.

Be more aggressive, take fights with neutral mobs early, and expand, build your economy and level up your wielders.
I know it's not pleasant to hear, but this IS a skill issue, you need to get better at fighting neutral troops with minimal losses to expand quickly. Practice the tactical combat, try spells and spell combinations.

Now more specifically:
- The fey forest and generally speaking the entire right edge of the map is very generous and it's pretty much all yours. You should get an insane amount of resources and troops from there, without any interference.
- The big city halfway up to the north should be your first target as without it you are somewhat limited. Get it quickly and keep it. The knight dwelling next to it is a very nice extra.
- The enemy wielders are magic based and will have a lot of extra essence from the towers they control. Plan accordingly (although I have no idea how aggressive the AI is with magic on fair), low health, low stack troops like archers fair very badly here since they fall prey to destruction magic easily, while precious high tier units are very susceptible to scales of justice.
- Use your mobility. If you explored the previous maps, then Cecilia should have insane buffs to her movement speed by now. You should be able to run circles around the enemy wielders and punish them for overextending.
- Be flexible. Giving up a small town or two is no big deal, and it will slow down the enemy wielders for several turns as they convert it, giving you ample time to mount a counterattack.
- Don't forget the random buff buildings scattered around the map that give you extra boosts for one fight only. Sending in a smaller army to soften up the enemy, and make them use up those bonuses can be a very useful - if somewhat cheesy - tactic. On the other hand, make sure your own army has all the bonuses realistically possible to stack.

[Slowpork]

4th mission of Arleon campaign (even on Fair) is all about aggressive expansions. What I usually like to do is, gather all the free units from the forest, give them to Cecilia, so she could go north and capture 2 large towns.

Beastmen wielders are capping free villages, extra resources and everything else that isn't nailed down.

Usually by the time you reach second big town, there should be at least one enemy hero there but with your troops it shouldn't be an issue, unless you completely borked Cecilia's skill choices.

Build towers in large settlements and hunker down if you can't win in a direct fight. Also, don't forget about magic and learn how to properly use/gather it, and what enemy troops target first (ranged ones, those who give a lot of essence or are generally weak).

[jetsetsoaper]

I did send cecilia east to collect units, and split up the ones, i had started with, to the two others, and right off the bat i had been exploring/expanding. I always grab those 1 battle bonuses when i can, and I forced all the fights i could, to be in my towns with garrisoned units, but that almost gives them the advantage, since I cant get any units past the gate to attack them, and they have a lot of spells, and range attackers.

i think my issue is i went to far in one direction and not another. and somehow triggered something. this is the the second of two times in missions where i see no enemy wielders, than multiple all come at once. not that it matters when just one of them has 18+ high legions, 150+ skeletons, 40+ of their units with 1 gun, and 1 melee weapon, 30+ monk dudes, and some floaty skeletons with maces.

I will try again to rush the city north, but I still feel this is broken. The missions are supposed to be accessible as a new player, and i shouldnt have to meta and min max perfectly to be able to beat it. Im pretty sure i did bork cecilias skills, because it my first time playing, and this again is pretty unfair to a new player, since choices i made on the very first mission effect her on the 4th.

But even the game thinks i stand a chance since it says "fair" or "risky", which is how i fight most of my battles. I understand it should be harder because now they have a wielder, but theres nothing "fair" about these fights.

They need to cap/limit the enemy wielders, maybe by using some AI dungeon master or something.


Im 35 and i play A LOT of strategy and 4x games, I should not be getting absolutely destroyed because i expanded slightly more west than north with everything that is going on. This is the 4th mission in the game (arguably a tutorial), and if your going to cause my character's skills to stay (which is cool), you need to account for the fact that these are NEW players trying to figure out the game. Meanwhile they are battling, what feels like a pvp meta build controlled by AI.

[jetsetsoaper]

I really did not waste turns, aside from picking up everything on my way to unexplored areas. I dont understand how a first time player is supposed to figure out exactly how to split, and explore, with 3 groups of units, for the first time, quickly enough to stop the enemies from having armies 4 times stronger than your own.

the last army i sent out to fight was composed of 20 of the painted horned ones, 80 of the pink flying melee faeys, and 10 of faey queens. I have about half of all the upgrades for the faey units. I was using the chaos focused wielder. And i maybe took out 2 of their troops before they killed all mine. I mean they can 1 tap the 20 pink fae units (with hp upgrades) with a regular spell that they can cast twice in their first turn. that means, before they can even attack, im down 40 pink fae (2 troops).

The only thing i can think of, is that I should have made an academy INSTEAD of the other building, so i could upgrade my troops unit caps. Do you guys think academy is better than the other research building for this map?

[jetsetsoaper]

Im not sure what spells im supposed to be using either. I mostly use the one that limits range, and the shield one. but even when i stack 6 stacks of shield on 1 unit, they still get melted my spells. And im wearing 25% spell resist gloves, and i think 20% range resist chest piece.

I will try again today to rush the objective. But "skill issue" or not, this is broken for a first time player. You need to limit the wielders so players at least stand a chance, even if they happen to explore a bit more before they find the objective. No one wants to waste hours thinking they are doing well, only to have 3 wielders all converge on you at the same time, with armies over 4x stronger than your own. I mean how many turns would you think I would have had to sit there, doing nothing, for someones to be FOUR times stronger than someone else?!?!

Again, the battles im fighting still say "fair" and "risky" even with a maxed out party of "high" tier troops, with upgrades. And im just getting DESTROYED. I still do better than "auto battle" does, though. But yeah, the game clearly does not calculate their actual power correctly, as the battles are clearly impossible to win. At least with the choices i made, that im stuck with, since the first mission. (again, cool, but not fair for first time players).

And do the devs really expect you to replay the first 3 missions so you stand a chance on the fourth one? for a first time player? on the easiest difficulty?

Not to mention the AI cheats. they can capture towns in 1 turn, they respawn with full armys in just a few turns, and they start with more mana, than i can gain from the whole battle. They say they have 40% spell damage power, but they one tap my troops, while my 100% spell damage power, tier 3 spells, do almost no damage. This is broken af.

Ill try rushing again today though, and ill post again. but i cant see how im going to shave off more than 15% of my turns, while still growing my army fast enough to not loose a lot of units every fight.

[Wondervice]

Well, I do not know what you did exactly, but as I said, I won this map around turn 70 on overwhelming which does make neutral armies more of a threat. By turn 50 you should be at the very least ruling over half a map, and you should have a main army that is comparable to the one attacking you.
As for upgrades, the stack ones are better in my opinion, but when I played the map I didn't even buy an upgrade until I cleared out "my half" of the map.

[jetsetsoaper]

round 8 - reached large settlement
round 13 - eastern forest fully looted, sent 2 wielders north, 1 west.
round 16 - jumped by wielder from fog of war (fair difficulty), his footmen have 18hp, 44 melee, and 101 defense, his cultists have 91 defense (unbuffed). my queens guard have 49 defense.... how does this make sense? needless to say, he easily won, and thats game over. Im not sure i can save scum enough to save this "playthrough" of missions...

[jetsetsoaper]

i deff had over half the map by turn 50. but it didnt matter. they just walk through and claim it all back. again, my armies were as strong as i could make them. 8+ troops, all full, all upgraded, and boosted from research. But the stat difference is insane, my huge troops cant even handle their regular troops. again, somehow they have over double the stats of my guys, and i have no idea how. Im using all the best gear ive found, i loot everything i see, but my units are so weak in comparison, its simply not possible

[jetsetsoaper]

here is a picture my gear/stats. again this is my FIRST EVER playthrough. I started the campaign thinking it would help me learn the game, but still have some challenge.

https://imgur.com/a/wLpxwYI

this is at round 16 of my 2nd attempt of that mission. but again, all my choices and loot from the first 3 missions carried over. so maybe this mission is simply impossible now.

[jetsetsoaper]

Originally posted by Wondervice:

Well, I do not know what you did exactly, but as I said, I won this map around turn 70 on overwhelming which does make neutral armies more of a threat. By turn 50 you should be at the very least ruling over half a map, and you should have a main army that is comparable to the one attacking you.
As for upgrades, the stack ones are better in my opinion, but when I played the map I didn't even buy an upgrade until I cleared out "my half" of the map.

my main army can never compare. even with a full squad of upgraded units, of the highest teir i can make. Even if i somehow had the same units as them, their stats are over double mine, making even their weak units, very, very hard to kill. combine that with their never ending spell casting, and i cant see any way to win

[jetsetsoaper]

if anyone wants a challenge: here are my save files.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1s_H-kbETP6m5Or45S4603L46_ZUdYSGo?usp=sharing


1053 is the newest 16 round save. prepare to be jumped in a "fair" fight.
0045 is where i already lost 2 full armies and a small town to doctor marjatta, trying to weaken her. another "fair" fight, or so it says.
2339 is a futher save, after loading and retrying things. but im pretty sure there is no chance of victory here

[Slowpork]

Originally posted by jetsetsoaper:

if anyone wants a challenge: here are my save files.

here are 2 of my saves. the "..._0045" one is my first attempt. The other save is the one where im about to get jumped on round 16.

https://file.io/9fjmA98fAlev

Your second attempt is better, pace wise but you need to have all troops on Cecilia. The best troops should always be on your main.

The mistake on turn 16 was being slow to capture the first large city. Instead of going for neutrals, grab all the troops from the forest, give them to Cecilia and then easily capture the town. Bots won't bother you while you are in the city, behind guard towers. If you defeat Roderick, 3rd city is a just around the corner. After that you should have around 10-15 turns of relative peace.

Around turn 30-35 they will try again but by that time you should have plenty of upgraded horned ones/fists of order (there is a castle near the first latge city). Remember, upgraded troops have unique abilities which can seriously help in a fight.

There are also two items which might help with magic resistance if you don't have the skill. Gloves and chestpiece. Marjatta and Ambertina can easily destory your army if you play defensively.

Btw try to manually save at the beginning of a turn to not get jumped like this.

[Slowpork]

Originally posted by jetsetsoaper:

here is one of the earlier ones with doctor marjatta. This was the first enemy wielder I came across on this mission.

in this save, i have already sent 2 full armys to "soften" up her army. both of which were destroyed quite quickly. Now im stuck where i cant seem to outrun her, she will chase me down instead of attacking the town (unless im in it).

https://file.io/fL0qnnzbJeta

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3242342137

I've beaten Marjatta even though there were some casualties :S

[jetsetsoaper]

Originally posted by Slowpork:

Originally posted by jetsetsoaper:

here is one of the earlier ones with doctor marjatta. This was the first enemy wielder I came across on this mission.

in this save, i have already sent 2 full armys to "soften" up her army. both of which were destroyed quite quickly. Now im stuck where i cant seem to outrun her, she will chase me down instead of attacking the town (unless im in it).

https://file.io/fL0qnnzbJeta

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3242342137

I've beaten Marjatta even though there were some casualties :S

about what round are u on? for me, on round ~55, she had 1 stack of over 160 skeleton guys, and 3x6 troops of High Legions (giant blue ghost guys, similar to horned ones/queens guard i think), along with the other units. And again her stats were insane. Her defense for the high legions was double that of my queens guards (~50 to 100+ IIRC), and they also had double hp (~75 to ~150)

by round 55 i had ~6 towns, too. 2 large, and 3 small, and had just captured the fortress with walls, to the north.

[Slowpork]

Originally posted by jetsetsoaper:

Originally posted by Slowpork:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3242342137

I've beaten Marjatta even though there were some casualties :S

about what round are u on? for me, on round ~55, she had 1 stack of over 160 skeleton guys, and 3x6 troops of High Legions (giant blue ghost guys, similar to horned ones/queens guard i think), along with the other units. And again her stats were insane. Her defense for the high legions was double that of my queens guards (~50 to 100+ IIRC), and they also had double hp (~75 to ~150)

by round 55 i had ~6 towns, too. 2 large, and 3 small, and had just captured the fortress with walls, to the north.

I mean, that was one of your saves. Round 55 is late game. Ideally, you want to capture 2 large towns in the north by the turn 30. Or even earlier.

The problem most new players have is that they are not aggressive enough when they need be and not defensive enough when opponents have much better troops. You can bait enemies to attack you inside city walls.