Dicey Dungeons

Dicey Dungeons

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Are you forced to take the spell when witch levels up?
One of the hardest things I find about witch runs is when I level up, the spells it gives me are garbage and I can't seem to find a way to not take them? Is there a way to discard them or are they forced upon you?
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Jackeea Jan 20, 2022 @ 1:47am 
The level up spells (the elemental ones, doppeldice/duplicate) are unfortunately forced. I think that's a bug though - it's no big deal though since they're really strong.
Snefru Jan 21, 2022 @ 6:55pm 
The witch is ruining my spirit. By far my least successful runs. Can’t get past challenge 2.
Pixel Peeper Jan 22, 2022 @ 4:21am 
Originally posted by Snefru:
The witch is ruining my spirit. By far my least successful runs. Can’t get past challenge 2.

The Witch does have severe drawbacks. She needs to waste dice and time setting up her abilities, and doesn't benefit from extra dice as much (it costs her two dice to do a single additional thing, and with only two dice her options will be highly restricted).

In my experience, gaining access to the two-dice spells is a game-changer. These spells require little to no setup and allow you to convert all your dice into straight damage, plus inflict status effects. All you need is a single prepared slot plus additional dice.

I bashed my head against the Witch's Elimination Round countless times and, on most runs, my odds of winning were incredibly low right from the start even if I did everything right. Until one time I finally got one of those spells in a shop and just blew through the challenge like it was nothing.

It's very sad but whether or not you win with the Witch (at least in the more difficult challenges) seems to be mostly luck-based.
Originally posted by Snefru:
The witch is ruining my spirit. By far my least successful runs. Can’t get past challenge 2.

The best I've done with her is have an upgraded slot that I put hall of memories (or whatever) into it which is +1 dice per turn for any even die, and then combine it with a 2 slot damage + effect spell and then a healer like first aid kit, worked until I took too much fast damage. I find her fun but frustrating and re-setting her up all the time is annoying. And then you're forced to take a level up spell that doesn't fit in my setup
Jackeea Jan 22, 2022 @ 9:31pm 
Originally posted by Neville Shortdingle:
The best I've done with her is have an upgraded slot that I put hall of memories (or whatever) into it which is +1 dice per turn for any even die, and then combine it with a 2 slot damage + effect spell and then a healer like first aid kit, worked until I took too much fast damage. I find her fun but frustrating and re-setting her up all the time is annoying. And then you're forced to take a level up spell that doesn't fit in my setup

How do Doppeldice (increasing your dice values so your spells do more damage) or Duplicate (get more copies of your higher dice) not fit in a build like that?
Snefru Jan 23, 2022 @ 3:13am 
Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:
Originally posted by Snefru:
The witch is ruining my spirit. By far my least successful runs. Can’t get past challenge 2.

The Witch does have severe drawbacks. She needs to waste dice and time setting up her abilities, and doesn't benefit from extra dice as much (it costs her two dice to do a single additional thing, and with only two dice her options will be highly restricted).

In my experience, gaining access to the two-dice spells is a game-changer. These spells require little to no setup and allow you to convert all your dice into straight damage, plus inflict status effects. All you need is a single prepared slot plus additional dice.

I bashed my head against the Witch's Elimination Round countless times and, on most runs, my odds of winning were incredibly low right from the start even if I did everything right. Until one time I finally got one of those spells in a shop and just blew through the challenge like it was nothing.

It's very sad but whether or not you win with the Witch (at least in the more difficult challenges) seems to be mostly luck-based.

I appreciate the response. I haven’t noticed a 2 dice spell but possibly I don’t get far enough in or just bad luck at shops/rewards. I’ll keep an eye out for them as it sounds like helpful spells. Definitely for me witch seems more luck based on rolls. Thanks again for the tips.
Bread4Duck Jan 25, 2022 @ 2:31am 
Originally posted by Neville Shortdingle:
Originally posted by Snefru:
The witch is ruining my spirit. By far my least successful runs. Can’t get past challenge 2.

The best I've done with her is have an upgraded slot that I put hall of memories (or whatever) into it which is +1 dice per turn for any even die, and then combine it with a 2 slot damage + effect spell and then a healer like first aid kit, worked until I took too much fast damage. I find her fun but frustrating and re-setting her up all the time is annoying. And then you're forced to take a level up spell that doesn't fit in my setup
Hall of mirrors is a trap, unless you're doing a defensive build (unlike other characters the witch can use the healing spelling multiple times by preparing it again, so if you get a lot of dice you can heal double digits each turn) it's a waste of time to use it.

Sure you get an extra dice next turn but you had to waste 2 dice setting it up (one for preparing and one for using it), which means at the end of turn 2 you've actually used less dice than if you'd just used the dice normally. It's not until Turn 4 that you'll have used more dice in total than if you didn't setup Hall of Mirrors but the witch has one of the highest damage outputs in the game (since she can create multiple copies of powerful spells), you shouldn't need to get to Turn 4 to beat most enemies unless you're doing a defensive build.
Pixel Peeper Jan 25, 2022 @ 3:51am 
Yeah, in my experience Hall of Mirrors is barely functional in regular runs, in more challenging one it'll get you killed.

It's particularly noticeable when fighting wizards in Elimination Round runs. They'll prioritize Hall of Mirrors over anything else and you're generally very happy about that because it means they're not actually doing anything to hurt or disable you. It's like they have one fewer die in the first turn, the regular number of dice in the second turn, and only if they make it to the third turn will they have one additional die, but even then it might be wasted (because each ability can only be used once and most have strict requirements). The wizards are crippling themselves by using this ability and I'm not about to make the same mistake.

It does work against weaker enemies, though, especially with some sort of turtling build.
Tem Feb 4, 2022 @ 3:49am 
Dang, Hall of Mirrors has felt powerful to me on my runs. Every die fed into it (aside from the initial prep) gets repaid on the following turn. If you prep and use it on turn 1, then use it again on turn 2, it's already die-neutral by turn 3, with every turn after that letting you roll 2 additional dice. Unless you're otherwise winning on turn 2, I don't see the downside.

There is the risk of not getting a die to feed to it on turn 2, but I use an upgraded spell slot to reduce that risk. I can then prep something else into the upgraded slot on turn 2 and use it as normal. And for enemies that are too dangerous to not disrupt with status effects, I can see how taking your first turn to set up Hall of Mirrors could be worse than just immediately going for a disruptive attack. Otherwise, by turn 3 you've gotten as many dice out of it as you've put in, and from turn 4 on it's pure profit.

That said, I'm pretty new to the game, so it's possible I haven't had enough experience to properly assess its strength. I was just surprised to see it lambasted here when so far it's felt like the spell that makes Witch runs possible. Maybe I'll give a full damage build a try sometime instead to see how it compares.
Pixel Peeper Feb 4, 2022 @ 5:42am 
Originally posted by Opa-Opa:
Dang, Hall of Mirrors has felt powerful to me on my runs. Every die fed into it (aside from the initial prep) gets repaid on the following turn. If you prep and use it on turn 1, then use it again on turn 2, it's already die-neutral by turn 3, with every turn after that letting you roll 2 additional dice. Unless you're otherwise winning on turn 2, I don't see the downside.

Well first you have to either feed a die to prepare it (which is what you seem to be doing since you're using an upgraded slot), or have it pre-prepared which essentially is the same thing: you'll have to use a die to either prepare it or replace it with an ability that actually does something, in addition to the actual die that you put in it, so the cost is greater than you think. You're functionally down two dice on turn 1.

Second, disabling the enemy is important. Freezing, weakening, shocking, these could all seriously decrease how much damage the opponent does to you and how much it disables you during its first turn. You start crippling opponents on turn 1, they can't do that much to you. You leave them free, they cripple you and then you're the one in trouble. Your first turn is way more important than your second or your third.

And yes, on higher difficulty scenarios like Elimination Rounds, you'll kill your opponents on turn 2 or 3. Otherwise you're probably dead.

I had the vague impression that it was an iffy strategy, but fighting upgraded wizards is really what did it for me. I loved that it so often wasted a die on Hall of Mirrors during turn 1 and 2. It could have damaged it or crippled my ability to do anything on turn 2, but it just decided to save its die for later instead. But there is no later. Not when you decide not to fight your opponent.
Tem Feb 4, 2022 @ 8:58pm 
You're down two dice on turn 1. Then at the start of turn 2, you get one die back. If you spend a 2nd die on Hall of Mirrors, you're down two dice again on turn 2. After that, you're neutral by turn 3, and are +2 for every turn after that.

That said, for episode where you can and need to kill opponents by turn 3, then yeah, Hall of MIrrors would be extremely bad. If you're killing your opponent on turn 3, then Hall of Mirrors gives you 0 benefit while also putting you two dice down for disabling your opponent on turns 1 and 2. And I can definitely see how a battle can snowball from the first turn -- either you're disabling them badly enough that they can't effectively disable you back, or they're disabling you badly enough that you can't effectively disable them back.

The Wizard battles are less convincing to me because of the various asymmetries (Wizards cannot benefit from duplicate dice; a Wizard's other spells are more powerful than most of your spells), but I'm ready to believe Hall of Mirrors is weak. There's probably some experiential bias in that Hall of Mirrors is better than the longer the fight goes, and using Hall of Mirrors makes the fight go longer. It sounds like in later episodes, longer fights are no longer an option.

Thanks for your explanation!
Last edited by Tem; Feb 4, 2022 @ 9:03pm
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