Rigged? RNG isn't random?

[agent8261]

After being frustrated with the witch ep4, I decided to cheese and quit in middle of fight, in order to redo the fight. I noticed that I was getting the same dice at the beginning of the fight no matter how many times I restarted. But if I changed spells, I would get different dice.
Interestingly the dice always seem to be bad for my starting spells (I could be imagining this).
Could the game be rigged?

[Jackeea]

Only if you try to savescum. The RNG seed is saved along with your savefile, so if you save and quit because you were about to lose, the game should reload you in the same place.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Computers don't do true randomness. Instead they use a mathematical algorithm called a Pseudorandom Number Generator (sometimes just referred to as RNG, but it's really PRNG), which takes an initial state, referred to as a seed, and from that seed spits out a sequence of numbers that looks random. The algorithm is unpredictable enough that different seeds will output totally different numbers with no easily discernable pattern. But because it's not actually random, the same input seed will output the same sequence of numbers every time.

At the start of your run the game determines a seed once (probably taken from the system clock or something, that's how a lot of games do it), then saves that seed so that you can't savescum with it. Reloading the save means the seed is still the same and so your dice rolls are the same. This is intended, no cheating your way out of bad rolls!

[agent8261]

Originally posted by Jackeea:

Only if you try to savescum. The RNG seed is saved along with your savefile, so if you save and quit because you were about to lose, the game should reload you in the same place.

I would assume that, but then why would the seed change if I alter what spells I start with. That's what bothers me. Changing the order of my spells shouldn't affect the dice.

[agent8261]

Originally posted by Mega Missingno.:

Computers don't do true randomness. Instead they use a mathematical algorithm called a Pseudorandom Number Generator (sometimes just referred to as RNG, but it's really PRNG), which takes an initial state, referred to as a seed, and from that seed spits out a sequence of numbers that looks random. The algorithm is unpredictable enough that different seeds will output totally different numbers with no easily discernable pattern. But because it's not actually random, the same input seed will output the same sequence of numbers every time.

At the start of your run the game determines a seed once (probably taken from the system clock or something, that's how a lot of games do it), then saves that seed so that you can't savescum with it. Reloading the save means the seed is still the same and so your dice rolls are the same. This is intended, no cheating your way out of bad rolls!

But why would changing the order of my spells change the seed?

[Jackeea]

Because that's how RNG works. Whenever you do an action, the random() function is called, which also changes the RNG seed. Doing them in a different order changes the seed differently.

[x_equals_speed]

I wonder if you have to change the order of your spells to change the seed - the change spells screen has books popping in and out of the library. It could be calling Random() to decide which background animations play - so it might be opening that menu rather than changing the spells that's rerolling the seed and using your early dice rolls on deciding which books to wiggle ;)

[agent8261]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

I wonder if you have to change the order of your spells to change the seed - the change spells screen has books popping in and out of the library. It could be calling Random() to decide which background animations play - so it might be opening that menu rather than changing the spells that's rerolling the seed and using your early dice rolls on deciding which books to wiggle ;)

After testing it for a little while it does seem to be the menu that alters the seed.

[Rougheredge]

That being said, that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bird has rolled doubles, an odd, and an even on more turns then I can accept "RNG is RNG" as an answer for.

[1.2M | Missingno.]

Loud Bird has four dice. The odds of rolling doubles with four dice, or in other words the odds that they aren't all unique, are 1-(5*4*3)/(6^3) = 72.22%. Then it's just 50% that the remaining two dice will be odd and even. So that comes out to a total 36.11% chance that Loud Bird will have a perfect turn.

[Rougheredge]

Originally posted by Mega Missingno.:

Loud Bird has four dice. The odds of rolling doubles with four dice, or in other words the odds that they aren't all unique, are 1-(5*4*3)/(6^3) = 72.22%. Then it's just 50% that the remaining two dice will be odd and even. So that comes out to a total 36.11% chance that Loud Bird will have a perfect turn.

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDD!!!

[Xzanos]

There are only two times the game rigs the dice. Once when you do the tutorial and once that I won't mention because it's a story thing but you will know when it happens. I think it's easy to call ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when all the chances aren't too bad to happen. Rolling two 1s is an easy thing to focus on when your other rolls have been fine.

[Ozone]

I have the opposite feeling actually.
When you are in a very bad situation, the game will rig the dices to help you.
I have noticed many times situations where I should have died, but my opponent rolled incredibly bad dices two or three times in a row.

It could only be luck, but I wonder if the game doesn't give a few nudges here and there to make everything more interesting. Afterall, the whole scenario is around "Lady Luck" who cheats fate.

[Pickle Bath]

This is how seeds work for random generators