tips on early money?

[RenWex]

as the title says. I am looking for some tips on getting money early on. I know this depends heavily on the starting position. I still want to know what are your strategies to start a wealthy campaign?

I mostly try to do this with expanding the cities - but mainly for research so I can get a tech advantage on my neighbours. I'd like to focus more on money itself though so I'm curious about what you do to get as much money as possible early on. Feel free to be precise :D

and - thanks a lot^^

[Crim]

Move your Capital to a Port, look for as many population bonuses as you can

You can find the Pop bonuses by mousing over the Territories' Pop Capacity.

Then try to build an Aqueduct, the Aqueduct will tell you how much Pop it will provide. If this number is over 10, max out Aqueducts. If this number not over 10, either looking for a Territory that is both a Port and has Horses Trade Good, or a Territory that it is over 10. You may need to find Rivers or Farmland for it to be over 10.

Over you have built maybe 10~15 Aqueducts, Build Mills. You want to balance having build capacity to keep building both.

[Ericus1]

Why would you do any of that? Aqueducts provide absolutely no benefit until you're actually at the population cap and need to raise it, so all those aqueducts you've built first are doing absolutely nothing for you, at all. Mills are also basically worthless unless you want to pump the slave ratio in your capital, as the % increase to slave output is pretty much worthless. And you shouldn't be pumping slaves at all especially in your capital if you're wanting to keep research high. Since it should be by far the province with the most trade routes if you're continuously pumping them to get the bonuses, you should be going the commerce income route. On top of all that, where is he getting the pops from to fill this empty capital with massive, unused population capacity?

Why would you not just point him to your breakdown on reddit? I'm assuming you're the same guy. Breakdown. Basically, pump citizens and marketplaces in your developed cities, and mine/farms in your territories. But by far the best way to increase income is to expand. Expand and enslave. Exploit the free money debt events to massively overspend and have it all wiped away by event.

[RenWex]

Originally posted by Talamare:

Move your Capital to a Port, look for as many population bonuses as you can

You can find the Pop bonuses by mousing over the Territories' Pop Capacity.

Then try to build an Aqueduct, the Aqueduct will tell you how much Pop it will provide. If this number is over 10, max out Aqueducts. If this number not over 10, either looking for a Territory that is both a Port and has Horses Trade Good, or a Territory that it is over 10. You may need to find Rivers or Farmland for it to be over 10.

Over you have built maybe 10~15 Aqueducts, Build Mills. You want to balance having build capacity to keep building both.

I don't think that this works out for the economy - like Ericus said.

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Why would you do any of that? Aqueducts provide absolutely no benefit until you're actually at the population cap and need to raise it, so all those aqueducts you've built first are doing absolutely nothing for you, at all. Mills are also basically worthless unless you want to pump the slave ratio in your capital, as the % increase to slave output is pretty much worthless. And you shouldn't be pumping slaves at all especially in your capital if you're wanting to keep research high. Since it should be by far the province with the most trade routes if you're continuously pumping them to get the bonuses, you should be going the commerce income route. On top of all that, where is he getting the pops from to fill this empty capital with massive, unused population capacity?

Why would you not just point him to your breakdown on reddit? I'm assuming you're the same guy. Breakdown. Basically, pump citizens and marketplaces in your developed cities, and mine/farms in your territories. But by far the best way to increase income is to expand. Exploit the free money debt events to massively overspend and have it all wiped away by event.

That is basically what I did so far - Capital becomes over time a trade and research center.
I was more looking for some (within the first 5 - 10 years) steps to do - maybe expand my horizon on that matter^^

Thnaks though

[Regis Filius]

And that is why you have this question. What Talamare said is the most efficient way in the current patch. Stacking pops in your capital province with particular trade goods gives you much more than commerce income which Ericus1 proposed.

Aqueducts not only increase your pop capacity, but mainly migration attraction, which is the main reason you need them. You don't have to construct aqueducts on all slots, but be sure pops go mainly to your capital. Slaves are 50-65% of your population if you fight keeping AE low, and 60-75% if you fight more. The only way you have less than 50% slave population is you don't fight often enough, so it should also mean you have high income due to lesser military budget. Not talking about purely slave raid wars, which don't give you AE, only slave population.

At early stage your main goal is waging as many consecutive wars as you can sustain. It doesn't matter if you play tall or wide, a war is what drives you. Each captured territory gives slaves to you, so it is going be one of the main sources of your population growth. Slaves give you tax income and trade goods surplus, which means more money. At the same time, wars mean army and fleet maintenance, so be careful about how many troops you have and if you need fleet at all.

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Why would you not just point him to your breakdown on reddit? I'm assuming you're the same guy. Breakdown.

Because it is outdated.

Originally posted by RenWex:

I was more looking for some (within the first 5 - 10 years) steps to do - maybe expand my horizon on that matter^^

1. Consider if you need fleet. By default many nations have fleets. Main purpose is to transport your troops, so you can easily disband all ships and construct your fleet only when you really need it. Might be only Macedons and Phrygians need a fleet because of the Diadochi war, all other nations are good to disband it. Might be also Rome if you want to transport your army to Corsica.
2. After you made alliances and choose a way you want to expand, look at your fortress map and destroy all you don't need.
3. Choose as cheap units as you can. You don't have to have full elephant stack. Base you army on what your possible enemies are and what your manpower can sustain.

UPDATE:
Not sure what else you can do in the first 5-10 years. There is much more in 50 years after your first wars are done.

[Ericus1]

Originally posted by Regis Filius:

And that is why you have this question. What Talamare said is the most efficient way in the current patch. Stacking pops in your capital province with particular trade goods gives you much more than commerce income which Ericus1 proposed.

Aqueducts not only increase your pop capacity, but mainly migration attraction, which is the main reason you need them. You don't have to construct aqueducts on all slots, but be sure pops go mainly to your capital. Slaves are 50-65% of your population if you fight keeping AE low, and 60-75% if you fight more. The only way you have less than 50% slave population is you don't fight often enough, so it should also mean you have high income due to lesser military budget. Not talking about purely slave raid wars, which don't give you AE, only slave population.

No, aqueducts are useless at this stage of the game. Since he's asking about how to make money early as a general strategy, and also said he recognized that it depends on starting position, I gave him the general answer. Other than for the few starting majors, where else are slaves going to go starting out other than his capital? You don't need migration pull or the increase in pop cap. Aqueducts become useful as you transition out of early game and start to increase in size.

At early stage your main goal is waging as many consecutive wars as you can sustain. It doesn't matter if you play tall or wide, a war is what drives you. Each captured territory gives slaves to you, so it is going be one of the main sources of your population growth. Slaves give you tax income and trade goods surplus, which means more money. At the same time, wars mean army and fleet maintenance, so be careful about how many troops you have and if you need fleet at all.

Which is why I specifically said:

Originally posted by Ericus1:

But by far the best way to increase income is to expand. Expand and enslave.

[Regis Filius]

I might see why you are confused, but not, it is better to start building aqueducts as soon you start building anything. Any building you construct takes at least 30 and in general 50 years to offset the cost and in the capital tall strategy with aqueducts it is still better than any marketplaces or tax offices in your capital, or any settlement building. It is arguable how much money you distribute between military and civil sides, but there is only one top-profit way so far. Hope Paradox change it in the next patch. At least, it is true for my multiplayer community where I try different strategies and mainly focus on PvP. Still I heavily doubt that our strategies should be different from PvE because after the certain point in a single campaign you can do whatever you want. Especially when TS asks about an early stage which is our main focus. You just can't make long-term strategies and win in multiplayer unless you have "no war in the first 100 years" that I have never seen. There are only two ways: you are either focus on wars only or the tall capital strategy. Both 100% works for PvE also, and what I usually use in my single campaigns.

UPDATE:

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Other than for the few starting majors, where else are slaves going to go starting out other than his capital?

Almost any nation other than tribal at the very first year. And every nation after the first wars.

[Ericus1]

Originally posted by Regis Filius:

I might see why you are confused, but not, it is better to start building aqueducts as soon you start building anything. Any building you construct takes at least 30 and in general 50 years to offset the cost and in the capital tall strategy with aqueducts it is still better than any marketplaces or tax offices in your capital, or any settlement building. It is arguable how much money you distribute between military and civil sides, but there is only one top-profit way so far. Hope Paradox change it in the next patch. At least, it is true for my multiplayer community where I try different strategies and mainly focus on PvP. Still I heavily doubt that our strategies should be different from PvE because after the certain point in a single campaign you can do whatever you want. Especially when TS asks about an early stage which is our main focus. You just can't make long-term strategies and win in multiplayer unless you have "no war in the first 100 years" that I have never seen. There are only two ways: you are either focus on wars only or the tall capital strategy. Both 100% works for PvE also, and what I usually use in my single campaigns.

UPDATE:

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Other than for the few starting majors, where else are slaves going to go starting out other than his capital?

Almost any nation other than tribal at the very first year. And every nation after the first wars.

Once again, until you are a multi-province nation, you don't need aqueducts. I never said to build tax offices, and you should start with libraries and academies to get citizen promotion in high gear. lol Aqueducts for migration pull at game start. What a waste of money. Use the governor policy in your capital.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Why would you do any of that? Aqueducts provide absolutely no benefit until you're actually at the population cap and need to raise it, so all those aqueducts you've built first are doing absolutely nothing for you, at all. Mills are also basically worthless unless you want to pump the slave ratio in your capital, as the % increase to slave output is pretty much worthless. And you shouldn't be pumping slaves at all especially in your capital if you're wanting to keep research high. Since it should be by far the province with the most trade routes if you're continuously pumping them to get the bonuses, you should be going the commerce income route. On top of all that, where is he getting the pops from to fill this empty capital with massive, unused population capacity?

Why would you not just point him to your breakdown on reddit? I'm assuming you're the same guy. Breakdown. Basically, pump citizens and marketplaces in your developed cities, and mine/farms in your territories. But by far the best way to increase income is to expand. Expand and enslave. Exploit the free money debt events to massively overspend and have it all wiped away by event.

The benefit of Aqueducts before Population Capacity is that the Pop Cap difference determines your Cities Immigration.

By adding Aqueducts first you will notice that after a month or two, your city will have 50 Citizens from other Provinces immigrating to it.

Citizens Super Cities are more difficult to maintain than Slave ones

[Ael]

@Talamare hey thanks for the insight on aquaducts. I had the competly wrong impression on how to build them. GOnna try this on my next game.
But yeah I think the surefire best way to make money early for me at least is have your Ruller the commander when you attack province capitals. Raze the ♥♥♥♥ ouf of that and swin in moolah!