Imperator: Rome

Imperator: Rome

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Aslan Ponto 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:47
Defensive tall strategy
Ave, fellow commanders. I am currently playing as Athens and I do not how I have survived the early stages after several wars against all the Diadochi, some of them at once.

I enjoy playing tall in all games, and I think it suits especially well for this campaign. I would like to ask you for some advices. This is the situation atm:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3317226235

As you can see, right now I have easily defensible borders. To the south, Corinth can defend the way to Athens, as does Lamia to the north, although I do not know whether it would be better to make Thebai the first fort, since if Macedon gets military access through Etolia they could attack Athens directly. Needless to say that Athens itself would be strongly fortified. Btw, we are allied, but all know that alliance is doomed.

As you can see, both Macedonia and Egypt are the threats (the Antigonids are no more, and the Seleucids seem busy elsewhere). In the event of war against Macedonia is pretty straight-forward, since they have no fleet, but against Egypt, I have the doubt about how to defend properly the southern part of my domains. I know you can set automatized stances to the fleets and armies, which would work better for my fleet to be stationed around Crete and attack or at least alert nearby enemy fleets, especially those which transport an army?

When it comes to war traditions, I rushed all the way to the navy improvements in order to get slaves through raiding, and now I am going to follow down the path to improve fortifications. In regards to the innovations, I have followed down the path which improves trade so far, but I think from now onwards I will take those that improve the defensive and naval warfare.

To sum up, the idea is to either prevent them from even reaching Athenian soil with the navy, and in case they do, have a belt of fortifications around Athens (Corinth, Thebai-Lamia), let them struggle, and when the right time comes, launch the counter-attack. Not sure about fortifying Cnosos, Mesenia and Delos, since the forts upkeep and construction could be too much. Do you think it can work?

Finally, as I said my intention is to play tall through the campaign, enslave lots of people and ship them to my metropolis, and keep alive as many Hellenic countries as possible, for having many trade partners and avoid the headache of moving around slaves, assimilate, troublesome governors... I would like to have a massive network of feudataries to not occupy the diplomatic slot, but during my last war I did not see the option. I read in the wiki that once you get oratory level 12 and a certain technology, some guaranteed countries could offer themselves as feudataries, but would it possible as a war goal? And when it says that they have to be of the same culture group, does it mean Hellenic (the religion) or Athenian? Because if it is the latter I couldnt do it.

Thanks in advance.
最后由 Aslan Ponto 编辑于; 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 11:14
引用自 Jean-Maurice Nya:
1 fort per province. The bigger, the better. Use political influence to use provincial improvement. You can build fort higher than level 3 without penalties. As hellenistic, there's a military tradition to raise that limit by one (you can cumulate with other military tradition trees but you don't need to follow that path).
By level 5, if your fortifications are well positionned, AI shouldn't be able to take any of them. It'll run out of food before. If you stack the fort defense from the tech tree, it'll make it even easier as each siege phase will take a lot of time.

You don't get the "feudatory" option as a wargoal. But you can use a CB and finally just make a feudatory out of it. You should be able to make some feudatories outside Greece. The Thrace pawns, some of Antigonides' too. You can also release countries and then ally them to make them feudatory. It's better to be a great power to do so.

As for navies, I don't use it much as it's mostly unnecessary. But I guess the Greek military tree associated with the generic techs should prove very useful. Especially considering Egypt enjoy a massive fleet.
Now, you should act fast to get rid of Egypt there, and potentially Macedon. Rome is coming. Even if you play tall, you should try to get the whole Greece under your control. 1 region means 1 governor, the ruler. Which simplifies the character management greatly. Also, you'll manage all pops as you wish in a whole region.
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Feynrik 2024 年 8 月 25 日 下午 1:48 
I would focus more to the cronic negative high balance of -0,33
该讨论串的作者已表示此帖子解答了原先的主题。
Jean-Maurice Nya 2024 年 8 月 26 日 上午 12:01 
1 fort per province. The bigger, the better. Use political influence to use provincial improvement. You can build fort higher than level 3 without penalties. As hellenistic, there's a military tradition to raise that limit by one (you can cumulate with other military tradition trees but you don't need to follow that path).
By level 5, if your fortifications are well positionned, AI shouldn't be able to take any of them. It'll run out of food before. If you stack the fort defense from the tech tree, it'll make it even easier as each siege phase will take a lot of time.

You don't get the "feudatory" option as a wargoal. But you can use a CB and finally just make a feudatory out of it. You should be able to make some feudatories outside Greece. The Thrace pawns, some of Antigonides' too. You can also release countries and then ally them to make them feudatory. It's better to be a great power to do so.

As for navies, I don't use it much as it's mostly unnecessary. But I guess the Greek military tree associated with the generic techs should prove very useful. Especially considering Egypt enjoy a massive fleet.
Now, you should act fast to get rid of Egypt there, and potentially Macedon. Rome is coming. Even if you play tall, you should try to get the whole Greece under your control. 1 region means 1 governor, the ruler. Which simplifies the character management greatly. Also, you'll manage all pops as you wish in a whole region.
Aslan Ponto 2024 年 8 月 26 日 上午 6:38 
引用自 Jean-Maurice Nya
1 fort per province. The bigger, the better. Use political influence to use provincial improvement. You can build fort higher than level 3 without penalties. As hellenistic, there's a military tradition to raise that limit by one (you can cumulate with other military tradition trees but you don't need to follow that path).
By level 5, if your fortifications are well positionned, AI shouldn't be able to take any of them. It'll run out of food before. If you stack the fort defense from the tech tree, it'll make it even easier as each siege phase will take a lot of time.
Hi, Jean, thanks for answering again. Yes, I have done that. I have fortified Thebai, Athens and Corinth up to level 5 plus excavations and level 7 in Athens. When war comes I shall also edict the "borders" provincial policy in order to increase the defenses even more. I try not to get over the forts limit due to the maintenance penalty. The drawback is that it takes most of my manpower in Athens, which it is up to 250 pops by now, but I still have a levy of 25K men, so it is fine alongside two big mercenary armies. I think I can 1v1 Macedon, letting them come to either Thebes or Corinth and send attacks to their rearguard with the fleet, defeat their armies in detail.

Moreover, I have the mission tree to get Amphipolis, so it is one of my priorities.

引用自 Jean-Maurice Nya
You don't get the "feudatory" option as a wargoal. But you can use a CB and finally just make a feudatory out of it. You should be able to make some feudatories outside Greece. The Thrace pawns, some of Antigonides' too. You can also release countries and then ally them to make them feudatory. It's better to be a great power to do so.
That is what I meant, sorry for my poor English. I mean at the end of the war, when you set the terms as a victorious nation, if you can make them a feudatory, because so far it only appears to be possible to make them clients or vassals, even though I have already researched Proportional Agreements.

In addition to this, what are really the chances to make feudataries peacefully through the guarantee mechanic? I am a Regional Power by now, I guess relationships must be really high and they must feel isolated and vulnerable, right?

引用自 Jean-Maurice Nya
As for navies, I don't use it much as it's mostly unnecessary. But I guess the Greek military tree associated with the generic techs should prove very useful. Especially considering Egypt enjoy a massive fleet.
Now, you should act fast to get rid of Egypt there, and potentially Macedon. Rome is coming. Even if you play tall, you should try to get the whole Greece under your control. 1 region means 1 governor, the ruler. Which simplifies the character management greatly. Also, you'll manage all pops as you wish in a whole region.
For me the navy is being key in this campaign, for transporting safely my armies everywhere and coastal enslavement. Besides, for defending the mainland at sea, now I get why the Athenians saw the point in focusing on it.

I have already defeated Egypt, which let me take all their domains in Greece alongside 3 of their clients-allies. The war was very profitable, since I took slaves in all their ports, and even sacked all their undefended cities, all the way to Memphis. It was quite easy, since after our first naval battle I tracked down their fleet to the port they had withdrawn, and simply waited for them outside. The Egyptian armies were stuck in Egypt.

Yes, I have already set claims on both Rome and Carthage. My idea was to conquer Sicily, accept the Sicilian culture, and have a stronghold to attack both Rome and Carthage, but the war against Egypt took many years and now Carthage is really strong (the whole Sicily is their Punic feudatory), so I guess I will either wait for a civil war of theirs, or mutual war and meanwhile take Macedon. I mean, I dont want to take out Macedon too early, since they are a good buffer against Rome, but I cannot stay idle either.

Indeed, I am aiming to get the whole region of Greece as it is my main region, for a bigger levy and so on. I have accepted the Lacedemonian, Aegean and Cretan cultures, since they are really present and I didnt have the Great Theathre until recently, but I decided to lower to slave status all the rest, in order to move all the pops at my will, and eventually convert them. Besides, it is easier to deal with slaves rather than with unhappy nobles.

I shall also conquer some key place heavily populated from where to launch attacks against other powers (Cyprus, Sicily, Southern Italy...), liberate as many nations as possible and enjoy the trade.

EDIT: this is the situation atm. I have just noticed that Macedon is at war with Rome. I would like to take advantage of it and attack Southern Italy, but my WE is so high. I will try not to raise the levies, perhaps that helps to keep WE at bay, only mercenaries, although I will miss the looting.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3317880499
最后由 Aslan Ponto 编辑于; 2024 年 8 月 26 日 上午 6:48
galadon3 2024 年 8 月 26 日 上午 7:05 
引用自 Aslan Ponto
In addition to this, what are really the chances to make feudataries peacefully through the guarantee mechanic? I am a Regional Power by now, I guess relationships must be really high and they must feel isolated and vulnerable, right?
If you are big enough gathering up feudatories is a piece of cake. When playing Egypt I usually take a big lump of money, and spread it around southern italy and sicily, rome is damn fast (and has this italian unification event-chain) but I usually manage to get avery solid base of feudatories in southern italy and sicily very quickly wich is enough to hamper romes expansion in the early game substantially.
After that I go over to do the same in greece and asia minor, usually while using my armies to "pacify" egypts southern border.

Strangely enough I often found that while allying helps with making them feudatories or client states, guaranteeing them seems to often lower their willingness.
And ofc it helps to get some of the techs that allow you to get a higher max bonus from influencing another nation diplomatically.
Jean-Maurice Nya 2024 年 8 月 26 日 上午 8:40 
The bigger you are, the easier it is to make feudatories. There's a diplomatic penalty for that, and the bigger you are, the lower is that penalty. Having a strong army helps greatly too. Then it's just a matter of boosting opinion to the maximum, so anything allowing for opinion boost is great.

Well, if Rome and Macedon are at war, I'd take over Macedon lands in Greece and prepare myself to face Rome. Or you can just help them against Rome but you'll have to do most of the work as I doubt Macedon will be able to challenge Rome.
I personaly would have let the other hellenistic cultures assimilate slowly instead of accepting them. Being of the same religion is already good enough for this rate to be fast enough. Now you handle that as you wish.
But I subscribe do your idea of taking advantage of their war to seize more lands in Greece.

On a side note, WE boosts military experience to get military tradition, I don't mind it to be at 20 or 30 for quite a while if I have plenty of trees to unlock. That's a small inconvenience while the bonuses can boost your empire big time (city cost reduction, bigger fort limit, heavy infantery boosts, free innovations...). But considering you integrated other cultures, it might be annoying with total happiness.

As for your map, well, you'll see if it pays off at the end but Rome is coming strong. You'll need a good fort network and a very good navy to get a great warscore.
Try to free as much hellenistic nations from Rome, Egypt, Macedon... as you can and "feudatorize" them. You'll get a "free" illimited fire power past a certain point. And trade with them as much as you can: the richer they are, the more useful they'll be during wars as they'll recruit good mercenary units.
Aslan Ponto 2024 年 8 月 26 日 下午 2:20 
引用自 galadon3
引用自 Aslan Ponto
In addition to this, what are really the chances to make feudataries peacefully through the guarantee mechanic? I am a Regional Power by now, I guess relationships must be really high and they must feel isolated and vulnerable, right?
If you are big enough gathering up feudatories is a piece of cake. When playing Egypt I usually take a big lump of money, and spread it around southern italy and sicily, rome is damn fast (and has this italian unification event-chain) but I usually manage to get avery solid base of feudatories in southern italy and sicily very quickly wich is enough to hamper romes expansion in the early game substantially.
After that I go over to do the same in greece and asia minor, usually while using my armies to "pacify" egypts southern border.

Strangely enough I often found that while allying helps with making them feudatories or client states, guaranteeing them seems to often lower their willingness.
And ofc it helps to get some of the techs that allow you to get a higher max bonus from influencing another nation diplomatically.
What do you mean with spreading money around Southern Italy? Is there a way to "buy" them as clients?

You might be right. The bonus for guarantee them is +10, and it is higher is you are allied. I assumed it was like in Rome II, that if you are allied it is impossible to make a client.

But in the wiki says it is the way that the AI would offer itself as feudatory, so I will follow that path. Now I remember that it happened to me once in my last campaign and it annoyed me, since I wanted the territory for myself and I was only guaranteeing them to prevent it being conquered by other power.
galadon3 2024 年 8 月 26 日 下午 9:35 
引用自 Aslan Ponto
What do you mean with spreading money around Southern Italy? Is there a way to "buy" them as clients?
Starting the "Improve Opinion" diplomatic Option costs money, doing that with a lot of city-states there is quite expensive.^^

Oh and yea as Nya said for the chance to accept a federation or client state status offer from you the AI also takes your military might into account so sometimes if its close to accepting you can try to hire mercs wich might boost your military might far enough to get those last missing points for them to accept (wich ofc is costly too).
Aslan Ponto 2024 年 8 月 29 日 上午 9:36 
引用自 galadon3
引用自 Aslan Ponto
What do you mean with spreading money around Southern Italy? Is there a way to "buy" them as clients?
Starting the "Improve Opinion" diplomatic Option costs money, doing that with a lot of city-states there is quite expensive.^^

Oh and yea as Nya said for the chance to accept a federation or client state status offer from you the AI also takes your military might into account so sometimes if its close to accepting you can try to hire mercs wich might boost your military might far enough to get those last missing points for them to accept (wich ofc is costly too).
Ah, I see, I though there was some possibility to send money as gifts like in Rome II that I hadnt got wind of. But I mean, isnt Southern Italy a little bit out of your grasp early game? Even Egypt being a very powerful nation you must remain vigilant for the Greek affairs and especially Syrian region, like to open a war front with Carthage and Rome.
galadon3 2024 年 8 月 29 日 上午 10:10 
Not really, you can just keep out of the diadochi wars and usually the other diadochi states are busy with each other, should one of them try to attack its rather easy to just rebuff them north of egypt.
And the beauty of that strategy is that you get a ton of federates, so if an early rome attacks you you can easily get a solid core force there, hire some sicilian mercs too and augment that with a ton of allied forces.
Also if you get enough of southern italy into your sphere romes rapid expansion in early game gets seriously hampered. Southern italy is of romes religion and their mission tree would grant them a ton of new cities and roman pops there for free wich boosts their early game strength, denying them that weakens them considerably.
Potentially if you are early enough an alliance with Etruria gets them hemmed in even more.
Carthage on the other hand is often spectacular incompetent in getting enough forces to Sicily, I even beat them several times with Syracuse. Wars against Carthage in Africa are another beast, but luckily thats not really necessary to keep your grip on the greek-part of italy.
最后由 galadon3 编辑于; 2024 年 8 月 29 日 上午 10:13
Jean-Maurice Nya 2024 年 8 月 29 日 上午 10:37 
Yeah, I remember trying stuff like that when I wanted to go for the Mediterranean islands achievement with Egypt. I focused exclusively on getting in the south of Italy through subjects and conquest. I don't think I used feudatories much at that time but I'd definitively do it now.
Then I focused on Carthage as Rome never rised from that first move.

You can send gifts too. Increase opinion is limited by your modifiers, but gifting is a net +25 to opinion.
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发帖日期: 2024 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:47
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