Can rome get Greece State as Feudatory if Rome has integrated greece culture?

[Claudius]

I would like to put all Greece city as my FeudatorIes so tha no need diploymatic slot. Is it possible to do so by integrate Greece culture into Rome so that Rome and Greek city are in the same culture group?

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Nope. Feudatories are exclusives to your culture group and should be limited in size. Greek and Italic are two separate culture groups.

[Cap'n Morgan]

As Jean-Maurice says, it's based on your primary culture group, not the culture groups of your integrated cultures. However, if you get the invention Proportional Agreements then there is a small chance that small nations you have guaranteed will request to become dependencies, and this always makes them feudatories. I've collected a bunch of Greek city states as feudatories this way, although obviously you need to ratchet up your diplo slots quite a bit to make the guarantees in the first place.

[jomigaru]

It IS possible. Cap Morgan has very well described how.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Thanks for the Intel, I never bothered taking it to guarantee another nation. I prefer to use diplo to make the country a client to attack with it and then absorb it.

[Claudius]

thanks, the reason i am asking is i tried to recreat rome policy in maga greece area which rome only demand these greek city state to be subject. But with limited diplomacy slot,i cant make them all my client state or guarantee them.

[Cap'n Morgan]

The game doesn't model the approach to governing other peoples that was used in the classical world all that well. The diplomacy spots are really for the kinds of vassals that we see on the fringes of the Roman Empire, many of which got incorporated into the "Empire" anyway. The level of autonomy that was granted to territories and city states in North Africa, Greece and Asia Minor, but within the Empire's "borders", is probably most akin within the game to taking said territories and implementing the Local Autonomy governor policy alongside some culture rights.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Well, you can if you're ready to get a political influence malus (-10% per relation above the limit).
You can use tech to get more slots.
Note that as Rome you can also rely solely on client states or other vassals. You won't need much allies past the point most Italy and Magna Grecia is yours. The strategy becomes pretty straightforward: make a client, feed it territories if you need/can, absorb after 10 years. Repeat while expanding.

As for the political influence malus, you can work around that by getting high loyalty within your government (max of 0.25 PI for each member at 100 loyalty for a maximum of 2 PI/month with everybody at 100). Best way to do so is by having 1, max 2 families in your government and, as a Republic, 1 faction, the faction you'll try to give a maximum of seats in the Senate so it'll be always elected. It'll be a bit skills inefficient as you'll probably have to place people with low finesse as governors, low martiality as generals, and low whatever in your gov'. You'll have to set priorities for some regions and gov' positions. That's the tricky part for republics, and that's why most people prefer to play monarchies or empires, there's a lot less character management.

[Claudius]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Well, you can if you're ready to get a political influence malus (-10% per relation above the limit).
You can use tech to get more slots.
Note that as Rome you can also rely solely on client states or other vassals. You won't need much allies past the point most Italy and Magna Grecia is yours. The strategy becomes pretty straightforward: make a client, feed it territories if you need/can, absorb after 10 years. Repeat while expanding.

As for the political influence malus, you can work around that by getting high loyalty within your government (max of 0.25 PI for each member at 100 loyalty for a maximum of 2 PI/month with everybody at 100). Best way to do so is by having 1, max 2 families in your government and, as a Republic, 1 faction, the faction you'll try to give a maximum of seats in the Senate so it'll be always elected. It'll be a bit skills inefficient as you'll probably have to place people with low finesse as governors, low martiality as generals, and low whatever in your gov'. You'll have to set priorities for some regions and gov' positions. That's the tricky part for republics, and that's why most people prefer to play monarchies or empires, there's a lot less character management.

Thanks for your explanation. That's exactly what I want to play. As an observer to watch how Rome playing through the republic with all these constraints. I think it will be much easier to play as monarchies or empires as player has the full control of the government. For republic, you have to rely on the system to work out the way you want without directly interpret the democracy machine though you know it will goes wrong sometimes somewhere but you just have to fix it with all means available. That's the challenge part.

[Claudius]

Originally posted by Cap'n Morgan:

The game doesn't model the approach to governing other peoples that was used in the classical world all that well. The diplomacy spots are really for the kinds of vassals that we see on the fringes of the Roman Empire, many of which got incorporated into the "Empire" anyway. The level of autonomy that was granted to territories and city states in North Africa, Greece and Asia Minor, but within the Empire's "borders", is probably most akin within the game to taking said territories and implementing the Local Autonomy governor policy alongside some culture rights.

looks like one way to play. Take the territory but give the local people some civic rights.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Beware the rights you give: it gives a permanent malus to happiness your "integrated cultures". -4% is not big but the more you integrate the more it'll hinder your province loyalty where those cultures are. Usually, you only give civic rights to cultures you need to unlock a new military tradition tech tree (you can see that each military tree can unlock another one if you have enough pop of certain cultures), it's best to rely on cultural decisions (in the culture panel too) as it only give a temporary malus.

Otherwise, you'll see that Rome will 95% of the time be fine and expand almost continuously, making it the "boss" of the game. It'll have 1-2 civil wars and few trouble with province loyalty. The game is designed to make it extremely powerful and it shouldn't have too much trouble with characters (unless you act on it to make important characters disloyal to provoke civil wars). Rome has an inherent bonus that increases the threshold for those wars though.
The main problem with republic is elections: it can changes your governors while you don't want to, a good member of the government while you don't want that one to move,.... The two main choices are: reduce the time between elections so it'll change a lot but you'll be able to get those characters in their position faster (but you might have a lot of problems with stability), or go for very long mandates to avoid any stability hit and just rule almost like a king (that's the oligarch path).

Monarchies are the easiest countries to play for government stability. Tribes are fine until the leaders grow old and all die one after the other causing serious stability trouble (you can assassinate the elders by rivaling them though)

[Cap'n Morgan]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

Beware the rights you give: it gives a permanent malus to happiness your "integrated cultures". -4% is not big but the more you integrate the more it'll hinder your province loyalty where those cultures are. Usually, you only give civic rights to cultures you need to unlock a new military tradition tech tree (you can see that each military tree can unlock another one if you have enough pop of certain cultures), it's best to rely on cultural decisions (in the culture panel too) as it only give a temporary malus.

Yeah, give Culture Rights if you want to RP with them having "autonomy". As Jean-Maurice says, granting Civic Rights above Freeman (basically integrating a culture) will give all other integrated cultures (and the primary) a -4% malus per integrated culture. This is basically the equivalent of absorbing these cultures into your empire, though, the opposite of what you're trying to do. Look at the Culture Rights options inside the "Decisions" button to find ones that might be relevant to preserving their autonomy (not all do, at least from an RP perspective).

[Claudius]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

......
The main problem with republic is elections: it can changes your governors while you don't want to, a good member of the government while you don't want that one to move,.... The two main choices are: reduce the time between elections so it'll change a lot but you'll be able to get those characters in their position faster (but you might have a lot of problems with stability), or go for very long mandates to avoid any stability hit and just rule almost like a king (that's the oligarch path).

Monarchies are the easiest countries to play for government stability. Tribes are fine until the leaders grow old and all die one after the other causing serious stability trouble (you can assassinate the elders by rivalling them though)

I am not trying to play in a easy way, that's why I am adding my house rule to the game so I can make it harder than Very Hard.
I have simulated the election of the republic so that I will not intervene the office selection. But I got a feeling that the Rome Senator is too easy to be satisfied which my Senator Approval is always high. I am trying to simulate a more challenge Senate to make my game difficult.

I think it will be interesting to play the Civic Right for some freeman from other culture. But I have a question about Levy. Can Rome only raise Levy from it's Rome culture freeman or they can raise from any freeman under Rome's realm?

[Claudius]

Originally posted by Cap'n Morgan:

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

......
Yeah, give Culture Rights if you want to RP with them having "autonomy". As Jean-Maurice says, granting Civic Rights above Freeman (basically integrating a culture) will give all other integrated cultures (and the primary) a -4% malus per integrated culture. This is basically the equivalent of absorbing these cultures into your empire, though, the opposite of what you're trying to do. Look at the Culture Rights options inside the "Decisions" button to find ones that might be relevant to preserving their autonomy (not all do, at least from an RP perspective).

I think during the republic period, most of the Rome allies in Italy are independent state which their Elite is not Rome citizen but they are still noble in their state. If I annex their land, then their noble will eventually demotion-ed to free man.

I will try to keep the Italy allies as either feudatory or tributary so that they can play by themselves but provide me tribute with money or man-power alone the way. But Beyond Italy, I will try to annex the land from local piece by piece. Eventually annex the whole region/province along the time.

I think even during 2nd BC, Rome use this strategy to expand it's influence across the Mediterranean world. Most land Rome conquered was managed by client states or Tribal vassals.

The problem is I can have only limited diplomacy slot, up to 10 I think. Exceed this number there is a PI malus. But I think at the end of game, my PI shall be enough to bear the malus.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Yeah, you're basically just running up against the limitations of the game engine to reflect certain aspects of what happened historically (like in all Paradox games). If you want to RP that hard, then you might want to find a way to use the console or make a small mod that enables more diplomatic slots. If you're just looking to increase difficulty though, but frustrated at the diplomatic slot limitation (as it sounds), then my only advise would be to focus on getting as many as you can. There's plenty of techs, plus one of the Great Wonder bonuses can give you 5 additional slots on the 4th level.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Only integrated culture with citizen or noble rank can provide troops for levies and legions.
Levy composition will change depending on the ratio they have for each troop and their number in the region. Legion is fully customizable depending on the resource available (you need to import elephants to have them)