New Player advice - play anything but Rome

[Myll]

For those new-to-game, you need to hear this at least once - play anywhere but Rome in your first Imperator:Rome (I:R) play-through.

Rome has "too much going on" - and you don't get the appropriate time+space to really see the game's mechanics in more detail, to learn the systems, the nuances -- there is no nuance with Rome, and you'll constantly be "behind the curve" on staying up with all the events, the expectations, the wars - to a new-to-game player, playing Rome as your first game can be very "Un-Fun."

Sure, you'll hear arguments against my statement, but on average, most players will find my advice to be true.

And even more advice on "where" - look way outside Rome, at least 3-4 "Layers Removed" in terms of a location where you don't perceive a future Roman Empire would encroach as soon. You want a play-through, right? Rome will prevent that, if you start too close to them.

Some far-off places to consider:
- Saloia (Found in far Northeast Europe on map, the formable = Aestuia).
- Armenia.
- Vaccaeia (or one of its neighbors in Northern Spain).
These are places where you are at least given enough space to see the game play out. None are guaranteed full-game play-through locations, but their odds are improved.

Another angle is to play very difficult, defensive starting points, such as Sparta, if you want to start the game and have a go at immediately putting up a defense (although I wouldn't make this the first-ever game in I:R, as a recommendation).

[galadon3]

I started with the Bosparans (the greek state on the crimea) wich was a fun game, managed to subdue the tribes to the north so I had the unsettled lands to the north open for colonization.

[Ax4711]

Crete can be used as newbie island, a bit like Ireland in CK. You'll be isolated from the major powers while you develop conquest strategy. United Crete is a credible regional power and can take on almost everything with its navy.
And with Invictus, Sri Lanka is even more basic.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I took like galadon3, but with Scythia. It was fun even though I got destroyed by Thrace at one point. Then I took Brigante to see how it goes on an island.
But Rome or any Diadochi can be a good start too. There's a lot to learn with them as there's a lot going on with it.

[Myll]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

I took like galadon3, but with Scythia. It was fun even though I got destroyed by Thrace at one point. Then I took Brigante to see how it goes on an island.
But Rome or any Diadochi can be a good start too. There's a lot to learn with them as there's a lot going on with it.

Ref. the Thrace challenges -- that's actually why I would say to a new-to-game player, to avoid the big formables in early game. Ultimately this is about advice for "how to play a longer game even if I'm new and screw up" basically. Admittedly, of the 3 that I recommended, Armenia has the most risk in early to mid-game. Northern Spain is preferable to stay away from early to mid-game Carthage (with Vaccaeia as but one of many options - although that one's a bit larger of a starting point compared to neighbors and is at edge of religious differences so a new player will have to face culture+religious assimilation issues). I didn't specify all the reasons "why" in my OP but the logic is there that you not only want to avoid Rome, but also avoid early formables that can roll you over, just to get the game progressing a bit more.

I think it's also a good thing for a new-to-game player to have an easier play-through that can walk you through at least one change in government (Saloia is "Unsettled" tribe and low Centralization, whereas Vaccaeia is "Settled" tribe with higher Centralization starting point). I would actually recommend a Vaccaeia game as better for first-ever, and Saloia for a 2nd or 3rd game ever played, although it's generally easy enough way up there away from formables to screw up and still keep playing.

An experienced player can handle the Thrace opposition or sorting out the Diadochi issues, but I just wouldn't recommend them as first-ever game for new players.

[Jiggy]

Agreed with all of the above. I found only two regions safe for a peaceful learning & experimenting, although really boring:
1. Any state in present day United Kingdom or Ireland
2. Any state up in the Himalayan mountains (just make friends with Mauryans, the first three rulers are aggressive, after that most of the times they are busy in their civil wars)
The flow is to progress from tribes to monarchy or republic.

Biggest backstabbers in the game (ranked from the worst to really bad)
1. Carthage (the worst among the worse)
2. Armenia
3. Rome (especially when consuls change and a different party comes to power)
4. Thrace
5. Egypt
It is really a pain to share borders with them.

P.S.: I am not sure whether this backstabbing is hard-coded or just random, but it happened with me every single time with them. Just gathered information that @Myll completed a complete round sharing significant length of borders with Rome without Rome attacking him even once, while I was never ever that lucky.

[Myll]

Originally posted by Jiggy:

Agreed with all of the above. I found only two regions safe for a peaceful learning & experimenting, although really boring:
1. Any state in present day United Kingdom or Ireland
2. Any state up in the Himalayan mountains (just make friends with Mauryans, the first three rulers are aggressive, after that most of the times they are busy in their civil wars)
The flow is to progress from tribes to monarchy or republic.

Biggest backstabbers in the game (ranked from the worst to really bad)
1. Carthage (the worst among the worse)
2. Armenia
3. Rome (especially when consuls change and a different party comes to power)
4. Thrace
5. Egypt
It is really a pain to share borders with them.

P.S.: I am not sure whether this backstabbing is hard-coded or just random, but it happened with me every single time with them. Just gathered information that @Myll completed a complete round sharing significant length of borders with Rome without Rome attacking him even once, while I was never ever that lucky.

Ref Rome and backstabbing, by the time Rome bordered me toward End Game, I had advanced Military Tech to +2 to +3 above them at all times. I was lucky to have 40 good years from a Military Researcher with 16 skill (not the norm, I realize), and that was with a newly formed Republic so I no longer had the tribal research penalty (I think it's -50% research for tribes). As Rome approached, we just sandwiched everyone between us, and I even thought of attacking them at a time where Rome was in 2 wars simultaneously and notably the Legions near my border were actually quite small compared to what I was normally rolling with. It just wasn't worth the experimentation at that point, I just rode out safely to End Game because it wasn't many years away.

So I would think the backstabbing AI would make attempts whenever it sees clear advantage, but I think Rome didn't take me on because I would have been a hard fight for them at that point - maybe even a loss.

Below is the screenshot in case those here in forum don't know what I'm referring to about my Aestuia play-through.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2952871984

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I made a run for the Massalia achievement in which I befriended Rome and cut its access to Gaul and Hispania. Before stopping, I was taking the whole Germanic region. It went fine, only Carthage was a problem until Rome took care of it.
My usual pattern is to wait for AI to start a war before going to war myself. I'm doing a run with Cappadocia at the moment and I just managed Seleukid that way. Also, I always have either mercenaries or a levy/legion in front of the sensible borders. Even in very difficult this strategy seems to work (probably because there's a power comparison ratio working, like it does with diplomacy)

Yeah, Armenia is a tricky choice considering either Seleukid or Antigonides is going to attack before 20-30 years have passed.
Anyway, as a first run it took me ages to find myself in front of Thrace with Scythia. I had quite some ideas about the game. in term of difficulty, I find republic to be the hardest to manage. Especially if characters are switching their allegiance to a party often and cause a lot of stability trouble.