Legion size and army/navy size in general, how big?

[Dragonrubi]

I love this kind of Paradox games spend hours and hours, that doesn’t mean I am good I sucks, I am the turtle king and very conservative I feel need to be more aggressive to succeed but that’s not my style

Back on topic, I know the basics, as Rome I have no problem eventually conquering all Italy and managing the barbarians to the north as the Gauls.

The problem is when I clash with any of the other “big boys”, as war starts I figure out too late that my army is underdeveloped, their armies/navies are much more massive.

EUIV has things as army/navy “limits” as a cheap guide of “how big” your army/navy should be for your nation.

TL;DR So here how you guys figure guide how big your army/navy should be as you expand to not be caught “pants down” when you clash with other super power?

[Du]

This guide should help: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2407310863

In resume, increase your non-slave pop size of your main culture and, if you have, any other integrated culture, by assimilation, pops promotion and modifiers. Look for tech, laws and army tradition for something that increase the percentage of your levies.
If the problem is gold maintain legions and navy, then you need to make more.

[Dragonrubi]

Originally posted by Du:

This guide should help: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2407310863

In resume, increase your non-slave pop size of your main culture and, if you have, any other integrated culture, by assimilation, pops promotion and modifiers. Look for tech, laws and army tradition for something that increase the percentage of your levies.
If the problem is gold maintain legions and navy, then you need to make more.

My problem is not to be unable to raise an army, it comes a moment in my Rome game plays i feel i can raise a lot a lot... at the end it results not, for a fight with a "big boy" I am too short, but how much is reasonable? They cost of gold and gold can be used to develop your nation for example, or deal with disloyalty.

[Du]

I having difficulty now to understand the problem, sorry for that. What i am understanding is that you can't have enough numbers in your army to fight a war against a big nation, so to have a really big army you need to have, in the case you are playing rome, more pops that are romans, you can't use pops who aren't roman, so all the tribes that you conquer around need to be assimilated to become romans, or you can integrated then with the cost of make the pops who are romans unhappy, enslave people of other cultures so you can get money and freeman give you more manpower.
In this game don't limit the size of your legions make sure they are big as you can, and the size depends of the size of pops on your main culture so they increase your levies and then you can create bigger legions. If i'm not answering your question, i'm really sorry again, but that's what i do to have big big army and fight the big boys.

[Rooter]

Army traditions and military innovations.
Stack those modifiers, discipline for heavy infantrye, etc.
Your legions will do the heavy lifting while your levies back them up.
Pick where to fight

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Against big foes, try to see their movement pattern and smash any isolated army. Little by little, their manpower will decrease.
Legions are a must: a full heavy infantery one is good against most other armies, especially if you stack bonuses from the military tradition trees (to raise this quickly, increase your war exhaustion and train legions). Their cost is not that important as they help you get more lands efficiently.

If you want to avoid having to much legions, just develop your main capital region that are counting for your main legion. Make cities and feed them. Your population there will allow you to reach 150-200 cohorts around mid-game, which means having four 25k troops. With experience to decrease damages taken, usually they destroy any other levy, and most other legions, even against a massive ennemy with more troops.

AI is kind of dumb, use it to your advantage against a bigger foe.

[SaD-82]

Originally posted by Du:

I having difficulty now to understand the problem, sorry for that.

He wants to know:
How many legions (and how big it should be) he SHOULD have in mid-to-late game. He wants to know if there is something he can orientate himself on.
He DOESN'T want to know how to achieve something or how to do something.
He WANTS to know how many legions (and how big) he should have.
Simply that.
Nothing more, nothing less.

How many legions (and how big) SHOULD he have mid-to-late game - how many legions (and how big) do YOU have mid-to-late game?

That was the only thing he wanted to know - and no one did answer that question.
Hilarious...

As for my answer: One legion per region (as it is coded) and I in size I balance around maintenance cost and how big they drain my levy size in a region.
Usually, as Rome, I aim for something like 10-12 Heavy Infantry, up to 10 Light Infantry/ Archers, 6-8 Cav (preferably heavy one).
When I'm playing a different nation the composition will vary, but the overall amount of total numbers (26-30) will be, more or less, the same.

[Dragonrubi]

Originally posted by SaD-82:

Originally posted by Du:

I having difficulty now to understand the problem, sorry for that.

He wants to know:
How many legions (and how big it should be) he SHOULD have in mid-to-late game. He wants to know if there is something he can orientate himself on.
He DOESN'T want to know how to achieve something or how to do something.
He WANTS to know how many legions (and how big) he should have.
Simply that.
Nothing more, nothing less.

How many legions (and how big) SHOULD he have mid-to-late game - how many legions (and how big) do YOU have mid-to-late game?

That was the only thing he wanted to know - and no one did answer that question.
Hilarious...

As for my answer: One legion per region (as it is coded) and I in size I balance around maintenance cost and how big they drain my levy size in a region.
Usually, as Rome, I aim for something like 10-12 Heavy Infantry, up to 10 Light Infantry/ Archers, 6-8 Cav (preferably heavy one).
When I'm playing a different nation the composition will vary, but the overall amount of total numbers (26-30) will be, more or less, the same.

Thank you a lot.

Also to Du, Rooter and Jean for replying and for the tactics advice because i assume other problem is that i was spoiled as Rome, crushing everyone in my path, used to fight small fish but unexperienced in warfare against powerful opponents.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I assume either a Diadochi (often it's Seleukid or Egypt depending on how the Diadochi's wars go) or Carthage is posing a threat now.
As AI is not very smart, it usually doesn't use the war goal to do wars. It means that if you're the attacker, you just need to secure the province you want for 25 months to make a peace treaty that allows you to free some other cultures or take what you want. No need to destroy all its armies. And if you're defending yourself, that usually easier because AI has a bad strategy to take the war goal. As Bactria, I had to fight both Seleukid and Maurya from the beginning. Both being much stronger, we should lose. But you can avoid it by securing the war goal for enough time. It took me around 100-150 years to dispatch both (and get related achievements).

Another thing I forgot you might consider is the levy composition of your ennemies. And here comes why legions are more interesting in term of warfare: as you can choose your army composition, you can adapt it to your ennemy. Each troops have different fighting values against other troops, the heavy infantery being basically the best (and being almost invincible with all bonuses you can get, especially with Rome => only war elephants can be a threat).
You can find these values in game, but otherwise this is a good summary: https://imperator.paradoxwikis.com/Land_units

To unlock the military trees, as I said you can increase war exhaustion (it can be bad depending on the situation) and mostly through legion training. What I do early game is to have a 5k legion that I train. It's not too costy and you can speed up the process early on at a minor cost.
I fight with levies first, and the more I grow, the more I increase the legion size (and at this point you need a strong economic system as it'll be more and more costy to train and build roads). Then, I usually do the whole game with one legion, the one attached to the capital. If needed, I raise levies either to increase war exhaustion or as bait.

To develop all lands that count for your main legion, try to aim the tech that decrease city building cost by 25% (Petition of Minorities on the right of the civic tech tree), you'll save a lot of political influence (as money shouldn't be a problem most of the time) to make more cities. Don't build cities in province with food as you'll need them to feed the increasing population there (as I mentionned, you can easily go up to 200 cohorts around mid-game, which means a 100k legion you should split in four in my opinion). A good promotion system will allow you to avoid having too much slaves which don't count for your army (but slaves are still nice to produce more trading goods, or more food).

All of it should help to not bothering too much about big wars against the strongest foes. Just be patient, the more you'll play, the more you'll trick AI into your traps as you'll get how it moves and makes war.

And for navy, I don't use it much. For all I know, avoid building only big ships, the little liburnian should be in number. Egypt and Carthage are a pain, that for sure. But I cannot be more helpful, sorry.