Is Rome overpowered? How to deal with it?

[kek]

I've tried a few campaigns now, mostly as tribes. They all go roughly the same way: Rome expands unchallenged and becomes an unstoppable superpower. At this point, it pre-determines the goal of my every campaign: defeat Rome. There is no room for cozy little tall play or historical (or not so historical) role play. There are only two options:

a) Blob out and build a monstrosity spanning continents to outdo Rome

or

b) Be annihilated by Rome

In my current campaign as a Venedi tribe it's ~540s, I am finally a reformed republic, and I have barely managed to go from 15 times smaller than Rome to 12.5 times smaller (in pops) in that period. 5900+ pops, somehow already a great power and close-ish to my borders, I feel like it's already gg.

It's a bit like playing next to Ottomans or France in EU4, but way worse. And no matter where you start you end up next to Rome sooner or later. In EU4 you could take the silliest weakest nation and turn it into the greatest power and all without major conquest. In this game however I'm not sure if it's remotely possible...

Is it just how it be or am I just too scared and there's a secret way to stop Roman menace while at 10+ times disadvantage?

[Aedile]

Umm no, you ain't stopping Rome if you leave them grow unchallenged for 90 years, unless you become major power, especially if you don't expand. Starting as a tribe they have much higher capability to go tall too, so really it ain't happening.

What is the "venedi"? The German tribe - you should have no trouble defending against Rome with them to be honest.

It all depends on where you are and how much you can challenge them diplomatically.


For example if playing a Latin minor in Italy, you can ally them at the start and keep them tied in your wars.

If you are further away, (Gaul for example) pick few allies (different region works best, because there are pretty much free CB on many nations in same region) and support them to grow strong.

[Gronk]

So the biggest advantage that Rome has in this game: the AI is garbage when it comes to wars across water.
In any Rome period game you could rely on Carthage or the Greek successors to provide some counter point. You could also rely on civil wars ripping at Rome every hundred years or so.
Not so in this game. Civil wars are pretty worthless and, as i said, the AI doesn't know how to move across water. The Italian region is already so incredibly tall at the start of the game, not even the Greek polis are comparable (and that is historically completely inaccurate). There is no way that Rome doesn't end up owning all of Italy. So no matter how many allies you can find, nobody can actually get to Rome.
I played one campaign as Albion and Rome sort of lost its way across Gaul (because AI and all that).
By that point Pritannia was taller than Italy and unassailable because ... AI can't do water.

[Magnus Furius]

It would be good (either playing as Rome as a challenge, or as a non-Italian state) if the Italian powers were more inclined to ally with one another and / or form defensive leagues. It is kind of pointless if Metapontium, Taras and Hereclea form a defensive league. Meanwhile Lucania and Etruria get sniped because they didn't ally one another... :/

[Ellye]

The main problem with having Rome as an enemy in this game is that the others AI don't challenge them at all.

You won't see Carthage being a problem to Rome, you won't see smaller nations banding together to a point that they can at least provide some resistance.

You also won't see them having civil wars or internal crisis.

So you really don't have an opportunity to strike, they are always at full power and their full power is absurd compared to everyone else.

[Toryn Gent]

Uhm Rome should be a powerhouse and it should be extremely hard to beat them - because you know - history. That is why its AI got an overhaul in this update. Before that Rome used to just die in almost every game and that was total bull. Maybe PDX went a little bit overboard with buffing them, but in the end Rome should be the ultimate Nemesis for every nation in that period.

[spike86]

Originally posted by Toryn Gent:

Uhm Rome should be a powerhouse and it should be extremely hard to beat them - because you know - history. That is why its AI got an overhaul in this update. Before that Rome used to just die in almost every game and that was total bull. Maybe PDX went a little bit overboard with buffing them, but in the end Rome should be the ultimate Nemesis for every nation in that period.

this!

they'll probably going to nerf it a little, but Imperator ROME should have a very powerful... well, Rome

[kek]

Originally posted by Toryn Gent:

Uhm Rome should be a powerhouse and it should be extremely hard to beat them - because you know - history. That is why its AI got an overhaul in this update. Before that Rome used to just die in almost every game and that was total bull. Maybe PDX went a little bit overboard with buffing them, but in the end Rome should be the ultimate Nemesis for every nation in that period.

Well, you are assuming that beast Rome is sort of a historical "baseline" meaning if we run history over and over again we'll get massive Roman empire most of the time. But we don't know if it's true. It could be that our timeline is unlikely and historical Rome is a result of a unique chain of events.

Another problem with that is that a game primarily needs to be fun to play. Historical accuracy is not the goal but merely one of the tools to achieve that. And for a game to be fun it is important that it is balanced and re-playable (i.e.it doesn't play the same every time).

[spike86]

do a few observer runs, you'll see Rome failing roughly 40% of the times.
probably right now they are a tad too fast, but not too strong

[FriendlyFaceForFun]

the only way ik to compete with rome if you dont start as one of the giant nations, is to play Syracause. I early game, dont build anything , store up the money, and when your manpower fall below 50% you get a massive discount to hire mercenaries from you mission tree. two bands of Mercenary is pretty powerful early game (thus you have to become regional power before you face Rome), I actually fought both Carthage and Rome, and won.Due to your proximity with Rome , and the way the peace treaty works in game, you can shut down Rome with just one war. But even this cheese won't work everytime, and even a longer shot on anything higher than hard difficulty.
The antagonist modifier is simply breaking the game , the developer openly cheats on base game! it's unacceptable , 2.0 is disappointing.

[FriendlyFaceForFun]

Originally posted by kek:

Originally posted by Toryn Gent:

Uhm Rome should be a powerhouse and it should be extremely hard to beat them - because you know - history. That is why its AI got an overhaul in this update. Before that Rome used to just die in almost every game and that was total bull. Maybe PDX went a little bit overboard with buffing them, but in the end Rome should be the ultimate Nemesis for every nation in that period.

Well, you are assuming that beast Rome is sort of a historical "baseline" meaning if we run history over and over again we'll get massive Roman empire most of the time. But we don't know if it's true. It could be that our timeline is unlikely and historical Rome is a result of a unique chain of events.

Another problem with that is that a game primarily needs to be fun to play. Historical accuracy is not the goal but merely one of the tools to achieve that. And for a game to be fun it is important that it is balanced and re-playable (i.e.it doesn't play the same every time).

the game poses to attempt both real simulation and playability, but really dissatisfying on both.

[rhys118]

i do tend to agree that rome has become too powerful, pre-update the opening moves of rome (i was macedon) were always fun to watch, i'd see them declare war on samnium, and etruscia ally with carthage, declare war on rome and italy becomes etruscan, i've seen samnium successful defend against rome, take land and slowly take southern italy while etrusca takes northern italy, it was random

now its just rome steamrolls everything and it makes it feel like its no longer random,

[Rooter]

Use choke points.
Its fairly easy to snipe a province or too, occupy war target and defend it for 20 ws peace out.
Once you have beaten the AI once or twice and dont suddenly get weak, they wont challenge you again.
Its all about the war target for normal cbs, if they attack, avoid fights and just hold their war target.
Drop good governors for high mil govs.

One of the things that helps Rome is the free techs from military tradition

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Toryn Gent:

Uhm Rome should be a powerhouse and it should be extremely hard to beat them - because you know - history. That is why its AI got an overhaul in this update. Before that Rome used to just die in almost every game and that was total bull. Maybe PDX went a little bit overboard with buffing them, but in the end Rome should be the ultimate Nemesis for every nation in that period.

Yes, I agree. Basically Rome is the end-game event of Imperator, more or less like in Stellaris. Or you survive against Rome which is a great success or you destroy them which is another great success.
I like that Rome is OP and steamroll. But it would be nice that tribes were a nuisance for Rome. Or other powerful nations should be more willingly to stop Rome.

I'm playing as Egypt, which it's easy (except with assimilation and religion, it takes more time and you have more region revolts). It was really funny to watch Rome completely stop and being more cautious after I took Magna Graecia.

[Fox008]

We all need a strong Rome, but the other big AI nations never challenge Rome so Rome can just blob all over. They almost always blob into either Illyria and Dacia or Gaul. I think the best solution would lie with Carthage. The Diadochi are all occupied with each other in the early game. And once Rome gets a hold of Italy, there is nothing stopping them. That's where Carthage should come in. But they are really passive when it comes to war with Rome. Carthage should more actively pursue its Sicily and Magna Graecia mission trees. More focus on the punic wars in both Carthage's and Rome's mission trees should help alot. Also, Epirus could play a more important role here as well. They almost always get eaten up.

[god of being bad at everything]

Tbh was playing as massilia i built a metropolis beyond compare but now i lost it to rome