Iberia and Colchis are completely wrong

[Lane]

Meh, could not wait for the game to be released and its much pretty much dead to me now. Not a lot of games allow me to play for my own country. That is modern day Georgia which was Iberia and Colchis way back then. Right away you can tell zero research went into making of these two. Whoever made them was making Persia instead.

I could argue about putting them into Persian culture group is not right to begin with but whatever, I realise there can be only so many groups and you have to make do and Persia sure had influence on the country. I could live with that.

But it is not just a matter of a snippet of text, the countries are literally made to be Persian. The characters look nothing like Georgian. Wrong hair, facial features, skin color and clothing. They look like Persians. The names are completely alien and I am guessing Persian. The titles for various government positions are completely unpronounceable and after googling turn out to be Persian titles.

I can't identify with either of these countries so there goes all my hype for the game. If I wanted to play as Persia I'm sure I could find other games. Hopefully Paradox will polish the game after release and fix this mess.

[hamster godoy]

the arabian conquests separated these two countries so they distanced themselves, during that time period they were direclty connected

[curtadamsCA]

Цитата допису rato godoy:

the caucasian people are related to the iranian/aryan people, these 2000 years of history distanced the iranians from the caucasians a lot, but during that time period they even spoke a similar indo-european language

There are a lot of Persian linguistic relatives, like Azerbaijani, but Georgian isn't one of them. It's not even Indo-European. In general the Caucasus has a lot of linguistic variety.

[RJM]

Цитата допису Gordor:

Цитата допису RJM:

If you put together a detailed list and submit it, there's a big chance it'll be corrected over time.

yeah and why not, to do the devs job for free....

If devs need " me " to fixe their own fail, ok, hire " me ", and pay " me "...( replace " me " by " your name " have same mind )

If you don't want to be part of a community effort to persuade the dev team that their choice could be improved, don't. Not everybody has to help wikipedia improve either, but we all reap the benefits.

I would not like to put a figure on how many months of dedicated scholarship it would take to produce a moderately correct list of place names and leader names for each region, but they've done it. You now want them to compare alternatives from different sources and know which is more likely to be correct? Even dedicated historians argue and debate over these things their entire careers. I'm glad they shipped with a working list and are open to improving it over time.

[Late Game Wonder]

Цитата допису curtadamsCA:

Цитата допису rato godoy:

the caucasian people are related to the iranian/aryan people, these 2000 years of history distanced the iranians from the caucasians a lot, but during that time period they even spoke a similar indo-european language

There are a lot of Persian linguistic relatives, like Azerbaijani, but Georgian isn't one of them. It's not even Indo-European. In general the Caucasus has a lot of linguistic variety.

yes it is true the current language of Georgia is not related to indo european languages however the region that we are talking about didn't have this identity or language at the time period of this game.

[curtadamsCA]

Цитата допису Late Game Wonder:

Цитата допису curtadamsCA:

There are a lot of Persian linguistic relatives, like Azerbaijani, but Georgian isn't one of them. It's not even Indo-European. In general the Caucasus has a lot of linguistic variety.

yes it is true the current language of Georgia is not related to indo european languages however the region that we are talking about didn't have this identity or language at the time period of this game.

Nope, the Kartevelian language family has been in that area since well before the start of the game. Probably a lot longer than that. Generally in that area if there's been a shift, it's to an Indo-European or Turkic language/culture, not away.

[Doctor3D]

DLC...

[mocha]

There are similar problems in other places as well, like in Nubia and East Africa. The culture groups, religions, portraits, and names are a mess too.

I'm assuming things like this will be given attention eventually as they patch the game. Just as they fixed those in CK2.

[Syzy]

This game has a stupid lack of differnet localizations for different cultures and does a great deal to lump alot of different people together under different umberllas for the sake of sharing the same assets and namelists.

[Lane]

@BrotherPacifist I am not asking for exact correct historical representation, like finding out the name of the ruler and his family. Just a naming scheme and appearance that hits somewhere in the ballpark instead of completely alien one. I watched couple of devstreams and they claimed they have researchers working on this. Well, whoever was researching this just pocketed the money and slapped on Persia all over without doing any work.

@RJM I would not mind doing so if it would truly help. Is there some sort of submission form or you meant just on the forums?

@LateGameWonder Neither Iberia nor Colchis ever had Iranic identity. Kartvelian tribes living there as well as the kingdoms that arose in their place later on were conquered over the history many times but they never got assimilated or adopted culture of their conquerors. They certainly haven't changed skin color and made plastic surgery to look like their conquerors either. Persians just demanded their tithe to be paid on time, but left the governance to the local ruler that was considered their vassal. There are local names for all the government positions, but I am not even asking to add them. Simple "general', "diplomat", etc would do as long as its not unpronounceable names that are completely out of place. They were not Zoroastrian either, they had their own pantheon headed by god Armaz(the only thing this game got right btw), which was replaced by Christianity in 320 AD not 500.

@Captainradish I agree and understand that. There must be even less records that are translated from Georgian to English, but its not excuse just to slap a different country's model on others and call it done. That's just lazy.

@Ratogodoy Maybe some Caucasian people are, there are lot of them, but Kartvelian tribes have nothing to do with Iranian or Indian people.

@CurtadamsCA Finally someone that understands! I am surprised to find someone knowing that much about Kartvelian tribes and language outside of Georgia. Thank you for your input.

@Mocha Hopefully, don't know what happened in CK2 but if they fixed it there its a good sign.

@Yhyzys That is unfortunate. There are hundreds of factions but it seems to me its not that much work to get proper namelists and adjust drawings here and there if you had a few years to make the game. Guess they just figured that majority of players would not notice so they just took the easy route.

[The Former]

Wait, isn't... Isn't Iberia Spain? Or am I crazy?

[Lane]

I think 3 places were called Iberia by different people at different times. And yes Spain among them.

[Cheese]

Цитата допису rato godoy:

the caucasian people are related to the iranian/aryan people, these 2000 years of history distanced the iranians from the caucasians a lot, but during that time period they even spoke a similar indo-european language

Iranians still speak a Indo-European language.

[The Former]

Цитата допису Lane:

I think 3 places were called Iberia by different people at different times. And yes Spain among them.

Okay, I've learned something here. :) All this time I thought modern Spain/Portugal was the only Iberia.

[Wyrtt]

Цитата допису Sheriff of Nothingham:

Wait, isn't... Isn't Iberia Spain? Or am I crazy?

Welcome to confusing history of humanity 101

[Late Game Wonder]

Цитата допису curtadamsCA:

Цитата допису Late Game Wonder:

yes it is true the current language of Georgia is not related to indo european languages however the region that we are talking about didn't have this identity or language at the time period of this game.

Nope, the Kartevelian language family has been in that area since well before the start of the game. Probably a lot longer than that. Generally in that area if there's been a shift, it's to an Indo-European or Turkic language/culture, not away.

Except the fact that based on all historical evidence the language did not start to take shape earliest at 1st century bc but more likely later at around 2nd century ad

Цитата допису Lane:

@LateGameWonder Neither Iberia nor Colchis ever had Iranic identity. Kartvelian tribes living there as well as the kingdoms that arose in their place later on were conquered over the history many times but they never got assimilated or adopted culture of their conquerors. They certainly haven't changed skin color and made plastic surgery to look like their conquerors either. Persians just demanded their tithe to be paid on time, but left the governance to the local ruler that was considered their vassal. There are local names for all the government positions, but I am not even asking to add them. Simple "general', "diplomat", etc would do as long as its not unpronounceable names that are completely out of place. They were not Zoroastrian either, they had their own pantheon headed by god Armaz(the only thing this game got right btw), which was replaced by Christianity in 320 AD not 500.

even the name of the supposed founder of the Iberian kingdom is Persian (Pharnavaz) and his mother in the "history" is cited to supposedly be daughter of Darius II.
Also there are ample amount of archaeological evidence that point at Scythians settling in Caucuses during the bronze age which the people of Ossetia are a direct proof of too.