Dealing with disloyal generals

[Δ*Alpha.]

As Iceni I have three armies, one of which is commanded by a general (who is also the wise one) with a loyalty of 27%.
I've held two triumphs for him, but it keeps going down.

I can't simply remove him because he's a general, and can't take away his command as he is disloyal, and can't keep his loyalty up.
I also have a civil war coming because 36% of my army is commanded by him.

What should I do about this?

[Brakiros]

free hands can be used on chieftains that gives them a lot of loyalty and the oratory idea - Military Administration gives +0.05

[Mr.Hmm]

can use the oratory idea where it decreases the corruption of your ruler monthly and bribe the general.

[The Silver Santana]

So, to clarify, you're still tribal right?

If so, welcome to tribes. Until you become a major power, there really isn't any way to manage loyalty; the loyal cohorts that tribal chiefs recruit themselves are too many. You can bribe, hold triumphs, befriend them, and exalt important ones, but your basically trying to slow the bleed until they die.

But the easiest ways to slow that are as follows;

Befriend him. This may involve some bad events, such as spending gold, and I don't know how the process works, but a friendly tribal chief bleeds less loyalty.

Bribe them. This will result in increasing corruption, but it is one of the only ways to combat low loyalty.

Triumphs. Exaltations. These interactions are somewhat dangerous, but can be used to keep a good (high martial, or powerful advisor) chief loyal at the expense of others.

Events. Often, you can sacrifice something to make a chief more loyal; the simplest is gold, but you can also give them more cohorts, etc. A word to the wise; any event that gives them cohorts gives them troops you have to pay and staff, so they aren't free like most tribal armies, but they cost less to create and loyalty is good for discipline. If the guy is super loyal those events are good, otherwise your giving him ammo to shoot you with. And never, ever, let one chief have more than 33% of your army.

Finally, there is an oratory idea that increases loyalty a bunch and is great early game, and several inventions that can slow the bleed marginally (these stack, but I personally have found better inventions to pick; be careful you pick generic "increase loyalty" or "increase general loyalty" ones, not governer loyalty ones, though you might be able to make a tribal chief a governer if you have another province; haven't tried).

(oh, also, the anti-corruption one so you can bribe more; or you can just bribe anyway, corruption is bad but civil war is worse. I don't use free-hands though, bribing appears to be a better trade.)

But at it's most basic, you are trying to get their age increase (and thus death) to outstrip their loyalty decrease. Everyone becomes disloyal, some of them just die first. I've kept maybe one general loyal throughout his life pre-major power, and he was my friend, had a trait that helped, I had the right civic, and I kept exalting him because he was a 12 martial warchief with incredible stats and my heir.

Once you become a major power or strong regional power, with high tribal centralization, the general retinue is small enough relative to your entire army that they aren't inevitably going to betray you.

[Δ*Alpha.]

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

free hands can be used on chieftains that gives them a lot of loyalty and the oratory idea - Military Administration gives +0.05

Mr.Hmm님이 먼저 게시:

can use the oratory idea where it decreases the corruption of your ruler monthly and bribe the general.

Free hands also gives all other generals disloyalty, and I am using the oratory idea.

The Silver Santana님이 먼저 게시:

So, to clarify, you're still tribal right?

If so...

Yes, I am still tribal, and I have already befriended him.

So getting more cohorts is an event? I couldn't figure out how to recruit more men to their armies either (kept telling me that they didn't want to abandon their cohorts when trying to merge with new units).

Thanks for explaining the way it works, I'll just have to even my armies out and eventually split up the forces more, but I need more land and gold first.

[Brakiros]

*Alpha.님이 먼저 게시:

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

free hands can be used on chieftains that gives them a lot of loyalty and the oratory idea - Military Administration gives +0.05

Mr.Hmm님이 먼저 게시:

can use the oratory idea where it decreases the corruption of your ruler monthly and bribe the general.

Free hands also gives all other generals disloyalty, and I am using the oratory idea.

The Silver Santana님이 먼저 게시:

So, to clarify, you're still tribal right?

If so...

Yes, I am still tribal, and I have already befriended him.

So getting more cohorts is an event? I couldn't figure out how to recruit more men to their armies either (kept telling me that they didn't want to abandon their cohorts when trying to merge with new units).

Thanks for explaining the way it works, I'll just have to even my armies out and eventually split up the forces more, but I need more land and gold first.

No it does not, Exalt Chieftain gives others disloyalty

[Δ*Alpha.]

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

No it does not, Exalt Chieftain gives others disloyalty

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/786352494208510559/070669D5E88666BD92782F5FB38687C91E973DF2/

The exalted one gets loyalty, the other ones get insulted.

[Brakiros]

*Alpha.님이 먼저 게시:

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

No it does not, Exalt Chieftain gives others disloyalty

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/786352494208510559/070669D5E88666BD92782F5FB38687C91E973DF2/

The exalted one gets loyalty, the other ones get insulted.

So does free hands

[Δ*Alpha.]

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

*Alpha.님이 먼저 게시:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/786352494208510559/070669D5E88666BD92782F5FB38687C91E973DF2/

The exalted one gets loyalty, the other ones get insulted.

So does free hands

Free hands gives loyalty but makes him more corrupt. It does not insult the other generals.

[[PBS] Wo3dy]

you mentioned to give them more troops.
if you build more units. and the gnerals army is on that tile. he absorbs that unit without a general.
wel atleast for me

[The Silver Santana]

Okay, yeah, you can give him more troops that way, but **never do that**. You will get events that may increase loyalty if they get cohorts, or decrease it if you refuse. Given that he can get those *after* you feed him troops, it's entirely possible for him to have 50% of your nation loyal to him and suddenly he's the most important person in the universe. If he's a great general, good, then keep the stacks with him but don't give them to him; he'll take over the battle.

And bribing him is best. I think free-hands is a higher increase over time, bribes are more cost effective, I think. Bribe is 20 loyalty I think, 20 loyalty=80 months of free hands, for 20 corruption, which is a worse exchange. It costs power though, but...

[Brakiros]

*Alpha.님이 먼저 게시:

Lightbane님이 먼저 게시:

So does free hands

Free hands gives loyalty but makes him more corrupt. It does not insult the other generals.

Yeah loyalty for corruption which means nothing for tribals which is why it's really good

[The Silver Santana]

Corruption increases power costs for your ruler, the general does claim more wage (wait, do tribal guys even have wage? They must, surely) and if they become a province owner (which is possible as a tribal) the populace *hates* corruption.