Is anyone else disliking Saf as a character?

[Cheshire Cat]

As per the subject, I'm wondering if anyone else just finds Saf and everyone's infatuation with her more frustrating than endearing or interesting.

Somewhat spoilerish from here out.
////////////////////////////

Her entire character arc is... Not well portrayed, at least in the way I understood it. She's essentially a massively self-centred, scatterbrained, insufferably irresponsible jerk for every single scene she's in... But is written to be the 'kooky, eccentric good guy'.

Her seemingly standard behaviour is to ignore the danger her actions pose to the people around her, then use her group FIXING those problems as a way to claim that her clearly irresponsible actions were just. Hell, the entire first five acts go out of their way to paint her as a dangerous and possibly deranged person who hurts everyone around her entirely to pursue goals that she deems right.

What's worse, is that her dangerous and erratic behaviour is proved to be, at least on a base level, CORRECT, if my understanding of the story is right. Destroying the Summerstone without discussing the plan or reasons with anyone, and leading to the events of the game. Yes, objectively that specific action, at least according to my understanding, was the correct course of action to take, but the route Saf took to get there was the single worst, most destructive way things could have happened.

Even more, I don't understand why every single character is written to be obsessed with Saf. Every single event, every single conflict, all revolve around Saf being a genuinely horrible, terrible person, and I cannot possibly fathom why so much importance is placed on her, and how much time is wasted on trying to make her out to be anything but a horrible person.

[talonj256]

This is kind of the point IMO.

Saf is not a "good" person, but she's not "evil" either - she's somewhere in between.

Like most people.

And the characters are obsessed with Saf because - like the narcissistic person she is - she sought out the most vulnerable people who don't have any other options and befriended them.
Nel and Rook don't have any other friends. If they push Saf away then their lives are generally... worse.

Also Saf's Maritte's sister. You'll go a long way justifying reasons to not hate family.

And in Ima's case, Saf was likely one of the reasons she was such a successful professor - what with giving her exclusive access to Books Which Should Not Be.

[Danielle]

Yeah, Saf's not evil, she just isn't redeemed for all the jerky stuff she does. The story shifts from being About Safina to being About Ikenfell, as the player learns more about it and about Safina.

This culminates in Maritte actually leaving Safina once she finds her to go do a big fight scene, because things are bigger than Saf now.

She genuinely does try to be a better person, based on a couple scenes, but she's not great at it, and I think that's kinda interesting.

I mean, the game ends with Maritte not forgiving Saf for anything, I wouldn't say she's let off the hook. We don't even see her in the epilogue.

[Cheshire Cat]

See, my issue is less the fact that she's a 'morally grey' character or that she's not redeemed. It's more the issue that the writing seems to want to push the narrative that Saf is a good person from the get-go. All the early memories bar her first memory with Perty paint her as a 'lovable jerk' kind of almost protagonist, powerful, arrogant, disrespectful of rules put in place for everyone's safety...

The way I took the memories and plot to be written, Saf is just out an out a villain from the get-go, even if her intentions for her plans were well-intended.

[Lina Inverse]

Originally posted by Cheshire Cat:

See, my issue is less the fact that she's a 'morally grey' character or that she's not redeemed. It's more the issue that the writing seems to want to push the narrative that Saf is a good person from the get-go. All the early memories bar her first memory with Perty paint her as a 'lovable jerk' kind of almost protagonist, powerful, arrogant, disrespectful of rules put in place for everyone's safety...

The way I took the memories and plot to be written, Saf is just out an out a villain from the get-go, even if her intentions for her plans were well-intended.

I agree it seems the narrative wants to paint her as a “lovable jerk”, but I'm only annoyed by her personality. Maybe it's because I never get the lovable jerk trope. A villain can be charming, but a jerk is always a jerk

[Danielle]

A large part of the narrative was having that conception of Saf undermined.

We don't even know if she's still friends with Petronella and Rook by the end, she clearly doesn't reconnect with Perty, Maritte doesn't forgive her yet, Ima outright tells Gilda that Saf kinda sucks as a person because she hurts people.

Does Saf even have any friends anymore?

I feel like your own preconception of what she was is getting in the way of what the game showed us. The nicest thing we ever see Saf do is cheer Petronella up, before immediately involving her in another of her plans, and nobody really talks about Saf without qualifying it with a statement about how she's reckless or brash or sometimes mean, except maybe Maritte earlier on.

[talonj256]

The narrative of Saf being a "lovable jerk" is manufactured by Saf herself.

She's a pathological liar - she knows how to manipulate people to think about her in whatever way she wants to.

Reading Saf as one of the main villains of the story is mostly correct, I think. Despite the fact that you're saving the world, doing it while leaving behind so many casualties is still not cool.

[Moral Wiz]

Yeah, I'm less confused by not liking Saf, and more confused by someone thinking they were supposed to flat out like her, at least past a fairly early point.

That said, I don't think she's flat detestable or the villain outright. (Barring a twist in Chapters 5-8, still playing) The way she's positioned is very 'hero of another story' to me - there's mention made of her, Nel and Rook having had adventures in Ikenfell before start of game, and there's nothing she does that would look too out there if a protagonist did it.

The story simply wants to call out how that type of protag can hurt people, be kinda a jerk and ultimately undermine themselves and the things they're passionate about.

[OniBarubary]

Yeah, I feel like people don't get subtext anymore. The game all but tells you she's not a good person. So just...text? I dunno. It's not even that subtle so I'm confused how anyone can say she's portrayed as a lovable goof with how large a part of the characterization and narration is about shattering that illusion.

[JediMB]

I think trying to define Saf broadly as "good " or "bad" is a bit of an oversimplification.

So anyone who's been mistreated by her is obviously going to see her as bad, at least to some extent, whereas the people who look at her personal achievements and ambitions might see her as a heroic figure.

She's pretty self-centered, but she channels that into what she sees as heroic deeds, and her moral compass seems to be generally on-point in those cases. But she's bad with inter-personal relationships, either mistreating or neglecting the people around her, which means she can't be the hero of the story.

[Drakesonofthedragons]

Saf is definitely not good person even thought she isn't total evil either.
she literally trap her classmate to a mirror dimension . I get vibes that they were original planning to make her the main villain but they change it last moment. Its also kind funy that the main villain of the story is basically a hero that wanted to protect everyone

[Meredith K Pseudonym]

Originally posted by JediMB:

I think trying to define Saf broadly as "good " or "bad" is a bit of an oversimplification.

So anyone who's been mistreated by her is obviously going to see her as bad, at least to some extent, whereas the people who look at her personal achievements and ambitions might see her as a heroic figure.

She's pretty self-centered, but she channels that into what she sees as heroic deeds, and her moral compass seems to be generally on-point in those cases. But she's bad with inter-personal relationships, either mistreating or neglecting the people around her, which means she can't be the hero of the story.

This. As far as main threat in the game is concerned, she's absolutely doing the right thing - except for the part where she's allowed no one else to understand why it's the right thing.

Perty gets in her way all the time because despite the trauma her and Saf's antics ultimately caused her, she can only see that Saf is still on her BS but with new people to hurt. This is why Saf "has to" take her out of the picture.

Aeldra gets in her way because the thing Saf is trying to destroy is the prison of the source of all of her trauma. Saf's got no chance whatsoever of looking like the good guy there without talking about it and to be fair, no chance whatsoever of convincing her either but of all the things she could say about it what actually is, she goes with the smartass answer that convinces Aeldra even more that she needs to be stopped by any means necessary.

Everyone else eventually removes themselves from her research because all they know is that it seems like she may be meddling with things that should not be meddled with.

She sucks as a person and is too obsessed with how awesome and clever she is and the stakes got too high. That's all.

[Gigadesu!]

I don't think the devs are self aware. You can't be a tumblr artist and be self aware.