Hell yea first comment

The problem with bots is that they're compartmentalized, and have low sunk costs. A bot gets banned, and a day later, it's back to farming rats in a Gila. You can start the game with almost 2,000,000 skill points, which is good for new players, but allows botters to set up baseline bots instantly. Add an injector or two on top of that, and they're good enough for null-sec botting.

The only solution is going after those who run the bot farms, or "allow them on their property." If a certain area of space is being botted, the payouts there need to be reduced (or removed). The bots won't be able to move somewhere else, because they'll get shot at.

Originally posted by Shotgun:

The problem with bots is that they're compartmentalized, and have low sunk costs. A bot gets banned, and a day later, it's back to farming rats in a Gila. You can start the game with almost 2,000,000 skill points, which is good for new players, but allows botters to set up baseline bots instantly. Add an injector or two on top of that, and they're good enough for null-sec botting.

The only solution is going after those who run the bot farms, or "allow them on their property." If a certain area of space is being botted, the payouts there need to be reduced (or removed). The bots won't be able to move somewhere else, because they'll get shot at.

I seriously doubt less than 5 mil SP is enough for nullsec botting but other than that I totally agree. Its a losing battle and the botters just better at concealing their efforts. I also question how effective the anti-bot measures really are. I still regularly see 10 to 20-barge Orca fleets in perfect synchronization..clearly either this isn't being picked up well by automated tools or the bots are being recreated almost instantly (possibly through automation).

Eve is dead.

A punishing system is nice but it definetly needs a better detection system. Why don't you get something like BattlEye, which is known for eliminating almost all cheaters in almost any game?

It also has HWID bans, which could get rid of infinite alts.

I'm basing this idea on Unturned, which became almost clean in a matter of weeks (as per server owners and public global statistics).

Originally posted by Tomas9970:

A punishing system is nice but it definetly needs a better detection system. Why don't you get something like BattlEye, which is known for eliminating almost all cheaters in almost any game?

It also has HWID bans, which could get rid of infinite alts.

I'm basing this idea on Unturned, which became almost clean in a matter of weeks (as per server owners and public global statistics).

Because a anti-cheat is made to fight cheating of the sort which does not exist in EVE. EVE doesn't have aimbots, or wallhacks, or ESP. EVE "cheating" consists almost entirely of either automation, or (in much, much rarer cases) hacking of the server itself. You can't target automation with anti-cheat software, because those programs (such as AHK, or even simple mouse/keyboard driver macro software like what Razer and Logitech provide) are completely legit, and have many purposes that have nothing to do with gaming.

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Originally posted by Tomas9970:

A punishing system is nice but it definetly needs a better detection system. Why don't you get something like BattlEye, which is known for eliminating almost all cheaters in almost any game?

It also has HWID bans, which could get rid of infinite alts.

I'm basing this idea on Unturned, which became almost clean in a matter of weeks (as per server owners and public global statistics).

Because a anti-cheat is made to fight cheating of the sort which does not exist in EVE. EVE doesn't have aimbots, or wallhacks, or ESP. EVE "cheating" consists almost entirely of either automation, or (in much, much rarer cases) hacking of the server itself. You can't target automation with anti-cheat software, because those programs (such as AHK, or even simple mouse/keyboard driver macro software like what Razer and Logitech provide) are completely legit, and have many purposes that have nothing to do with gaming.

I still believe that these are the same things (talking about combat bots and evasive mining bots). These bots attach to the game process to read what's going on in the game (from it's memory) and apply inputs based on that. This is functionally very close to aimbots and stuff and also what anti-cheats are designed to detect (alongside with other things).

I believe that macros and stuff are allowed as they don't interact with the game in a way that isn't allowed.

Originally posted by Tomas9970:

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Because a anti-cheat is made to fight cheating of the sort which does not exist in EVE. EVE doesn't have aimbots, or wallhacks, or ESP. EVE "cheating" consists almost entirely of either automation, or (in much, much rarer cases) hacking of the server itself. You can't target automation with anti-cheat software, because those programs (such as AHK, or even simple mouse/keyboard driver macro software like what Razer and Logitech provide) are completely legit, and have many purposes that have nothing to do with gaming.

I still believe that these are the same things (talking about combat bots and evasive mining bots). These bots attach to the game process to read what's going on in the game (from it's memory) and apply inputs based on that. This is functionally very close to aimbots and stuff and also what anti-cheats are designed to detect (alongside with other things).

I believe that macros and stuff are allowed as they don't interact with the game in a way that isn't allowed.

Memory reading is a gray zone, but memory editing is a red zone. Automation in EVE is not allowed, except in very simple forms, such as passing an OCR filter on your screen, and having your computer play a beep to alert you if someone with a specific overview tag shows up in local (e.g., a read-only alert that's only useful to you while you're present at the computer, and done without modifying any game processes).

Input broadcasting was allowed until about five years ago, and is now banned.

Botting automation, such as having a bot that kills NPC pirates for you while you're AFK, is not allowed, but it is achieved using legitimate software I mentioned above, so you can't simply ban people for using that software. CCP checks actual character behavior to determine if botting is occurring, and acting accordingly. If you start using anti-cheat to ban people for the presence of AHK or advanced macro driver software, 80% of the player base would be removed instantly.

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Originally posted by Tomas9970:

I still believe that these are the same things (talking about combat bots and evasive mining bots). These bots attach to the game process to read what's going on in the game (from it's memory) and apply inputs based on that. This is functionally very close to aimbots and stuff and also what anti-cheats are designed to detect (alongside with other things).

I believe that macros and stuff are allowed as they don't interact with the game in a way that isn't allowed.

Memory reading is a gray zone, but memory editing is a red zone. Automation in EVE is not allowed, except in very simple forms, such as passing an OCR filter on your screen, and having your computer play a beep to alert you if someone with a specific overview tag shows up in local (e.g., a read-only alert that's only useful to you while you're present at the computer, and done without modifying any game processes).

Input broadcasting was allowed until about five years ago, and is now banned.

Botting automation, such as having a bot that kills NPC pirates for you while you're AFK, is not allowed, but it is achieved using legitimate software I mentioned above, so you can't simply ban people for using that software. CCP checks actual character behavior to determine if botting is occurring, and acting accordingly. If you start using anti-cheat to ban people for the presence of AHK or advanced macro driver software, 80% of the player base would be removed instantly.

I would like to disagree with that. There are custom public APIs for writing EVE bots so things are surely not achieved with macro software as you describe.

Also BattlEye makes effort to not block things that are legit but functionally close to something that is considered a cheat (for example legit overlay from a mod menu). It of course also has custom detection features (written per-game by BattlEye devs) to fight hacks based on how they work in each individual game.

Info taken from Unturned changelogs where the dev was very open about BattlEye features and how it's being set up.

You'll have to take it up with CCP. I know some things, but I'm not a true expert. What I do know is that the null-sec ratting bots that are really annoying and screw up the game for everyone (and by extension, the mining bots as well), can be done completely in AHK, maybe with a small OCR component built in. That is to say, no reliance on EVE APIs and such.

The primary need for API might be with regard to market bots (instead of reading the screen, just use API data to see competing market orders). But the bot component itself is probably still done in AHK for simplicity. I'm sure more advanced botters write their stuff using actual programming languages too.

If this is common knowledge forgive me for not knowing then, but anyways what does the CCP have to do with this? Why is the Chinese government banning bots in a video game and making demands? Why would a government care about EVE of all things?

Originally posted by Henrey_the_Spezialeinheiten:

If this is common knowledge forgive me for not knowing then, but anyways what does the CCP have to do with this? Why is the Chinese government banning bots in a video game and making demands? Why would a government care about EVE of all things?

You mean in reference to "CCP"?

It stands for "Crowd Control Productions". That's the developer of the game. It's not the "Chinese Communist Party" we're always talking about (though the overlap is humorous).

Very well, thanks for explaining that.