PvP in this game sucks

[exochan]

There is nothing fun about pvp in this game

Its just an endless grind for ISK to get ships thats are blown up in 5 seconds. Everyone else can and will destroy you because they have more SP and have tech 2 weapons. You can't ever have a stable and reliable set up because

And the community are full of arseholes who will take delight in tell you that you should suck and "going join RvB carebear" or just call you an idiot when you complain.

How can anyone have fun in this game?

[Milktray]

We have PvP and we don't have panda's .. were fine ;-)

[Notorious]

Beyond anything, EvE Online is a thinking man's game. You cannot just go in guns blazing like most FPS games and expect to survive.

You need to plan and choose the best opportunities to succeed. You need to plan your skill training, plan your ship layouts and plan your movements as well as putting effort into making allies and tracking your enemies.

You need to think to survive in EvE Online.



As far as your immediate situation, even though it was probably said as an insult, the best advice to you was probably to join Red vs Blue. They focus on PvP and have resources to help new pilots out. They do not represent the full EvE Online PvP experience, but they are a great place to start out.

If you prefer something that requires less planning and has more insta-action, you are probably playing the wrong game. EvE in this case is not for you. There are consequences to losing battles in EvE; you don't just respawn.

[Steve]

In EVE, if you're not the one initiating PvP, generally, you've already lost. Safest bet? always fly with friends...

[Xenrek]

Początkowo opublikowane przez vollman70:

Beyond anything, EvE Online is a thinking man's game. You cannot just go in guns blazing like most FPS games and expect to survive.

You need to plan and choose the best opportunities to succeed. You need to plan your skill training, plan your ship layouts and plan your movements as well as putting effort into making allies and tracking your enemies.

You need to think to survive in EvE Online.



As far as your immediate situation, even though it was probably said as an insult, the best advice to you was probably to join Red vs Blue. They focus on PvP and have resources to help new pilots out. They do not represent the full EvE Online PvP experience, but they are a great place to start out.

If you prefer something that requires less planning and has more insta-action, you are probably playing the wrong game. EvE in this case is not for you. There are consequences to losing battles in EvE; you don't just respawn.

Actually, if you want less-planning and more insta-action, join an Aussie-lowsec corporation.

Nights where i was in a 5 man cruiser/bc roam as the ONLY sober player, are the nights i got in on some of my best kills. for instance, a faction-fit vindiator baiting on a lowsec gate, warped off to a belt, we engaged, got jumped by a carrier and several battleships, carrier frogot to drop reps on vindicator, queue death of a ship worth 5 of our fleet, and we still made in out with 2 of our battlecruisers adn all of our pods intact.

this was a coupel eyars ago with all characters att hat time being less than 6 months old.

[Xenrek]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

No... this about sums it up.

How many of you have ever played Diablo 2?

Did you notice how they seperated softcore from hardcore? Without affecting either side of the playerbase?

Are you suggesting that Blizzard should have just made 1 difficulty? Which, if CCP was in charge, would translate to HC?

I'm talking 2 alernate universes of the same game.

One to allow people to experience all that PvE has to offer, without interruptions from other players with nothing better to do.

One to let players who are interested in greifing each other at will to do so without interruptions.

Is that simple enough for you to understand and implement?

Do it, advertise that you did it. And dramatically reduce the time it takes to train on the non-pvp server... and just watch.

Even if god forbid... "Casuals" (those dirty rotten....) play only on the PvE server, see all the game has to offer as a purely PvE experience, then quit the game for good. Is there something wrong with that?

It's money from players who would otherwise have not even bothered. You know, the same argument Steam makes to publishers and certain developers when they start crying about all the deals.

its assets and resoures bing used to maintain a second srver of the exact same data as the first, but with less point in existence. the whole selling point of EVE is that its only 1 server, and everything you do effects someone else, for better or for worse.

the game has survived 10 years on this, hell, CCP even made a MUSIC VIDEO titled "HTFU". believe it or not, at one point, there was almost no PvE, the entirety of the game was a free-kill zone, then highsec and concord came around. and thats it. if you want "risk-free" PvE, your free to do it in highsec, but thats as close as your going to get.

lets not forget that if resources and dev power went to maintaining a second server strictly for pve activities, a vast majority of the players on the "pvp server" would get pissed enough to quit, and since many of these old guys are waht keep the game rolling, politically speaking, the game would become even more stagnant than it is now.

Honestly, the reason you cna even be ganked in highsec is because low/null players are just bored, so they make alt characters to play in highsec with, if low/null were actually compelling "go to" places for anyone but gatecampers and null "fleetbears", then youd see a huge drop in the frequency of highsec pvp, because gankers would have elsewere to get their kicks and profit.

i prolly wandered off in this post at some point, but my purpose still stands, EVE is SAFER now than it has EVER BEEN for the "casual PvE player", CCP provides you with everything you could ever need to defend yourself, and if you die in highsec, the enemy either brought an overkill amount of material to kill you (which meant you needlessly pimped your ship with expensives cause "lulz 5 seconds off mission time", or you REALLY ticked them off" any other instance they will die to CONCORD first. If you really cant be arsed to defend yourself with tools given, then i can kindly say GTFO, stop posting, none of us want you playing EVE anyways.

[Circadian_Seeker]

You're missing the point, you are affecting the PVPers NOW, and the PVPers affect you, and if they split you up no one can really be unaffected exactly because you seace to interact. It's actually quite an interesting scenario. I'm no expert but here's how (I think) it would go down:

1) pve and pvp servers split. "Carebears" (I don't mean to be derragatory I'm a carebear myself) leave and go to the pve one leaving all pvpers to do their thing.

2) PVE side goes about missioning without caring about ganking, everyone is doing lvl 5s and incursions all day long, and mines safely. Isk faucets work overtime because of all the missions while isk sinks decrease (because, no podding and no wardecs). Isk inflation happens.

3) Quarterly economic report comes in for the trimester, and the rebalancing of isk faucet / sink happens. Missions now award a lot less.

4) 80% of the ships in eve aren't been flown at all. Every capital (since everyware is highsec now) and pvp roleship is unusable. Of the remaining missionships and industrials hardly anything ever gets destroyed. The manufacturing part of the game is shrinked to ammo and pos fuel. Mineral prices tumble as now everyone can safely gother them and one rarely needs to make a new missionship.

5) In an efford to balance the risk CCP uses sleeper or incursion rats in all missions above lvl 2.

6) On the pvp side, just the opposite happens. Isk makers have flead and now isk keeps leaking out of the economy. Prices go down and people can't train because they can't afford the skillbooks. PVPers are forced to do missions and plexes by their corps.

CCP has the habit of making players do the NPC's work. We don't just play, we provide content for other players. PVPers and gankers play the mobs' role (and you win by warping off against those, not by killing them). They need us to make the money they use to buy their ships. If you break that interaction you throw away most of eve, and starting off from scratch keeping just the combat system against the rats. If that's the case you can just wait for Valkyrie, and that should have you covered.

[exochan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

so in other words, some of you play the game just to slave away for someone else to have all the real fun. Which would be PVP... got it. Nice game economy you have there. Kind of why joining a Corporation so early for new players isn't all the enticing of an idea. But I guess you enjoy that kind of thing I guess.

I see your point though. Yes it would cripple the PvP side...
but at the same time, it would just require going back to the drawing board to adjust how stupid the "Grind" portion of the game is. To make it conicide with less slaves doing your boring work for you. Make you have to get your own ♥♥♥♥ with manual labor a little more often rather than just hopping over to Jita and buying it.

Mr Eos, you do realise that you can join corps that spend all their time in high sec and mine belts.

[Milktray]

You joined a game knowingly that has no PvE and is a total PvP game and that's how it works, what the actual basis of the game IS ..

Your not dead in 5 minutes unless your dumb enough to skip the starter missions in which you get some skills, ships and if you figure out to use the mining frigate on missions with 'roids you will make millions.

And that is something people should easily figure out, sure it's time comsuming but it's isk and it helps to be able to buy skill books when a starter mission requires one just to learn the book it gave or you want that nice destroyer etc.

Or save it ..

Me I get a Blueprint Original and make my own ammo, though it takes awhile I learn Salvaging as soon as possible and if I get 'roids to myself in a mission mine them all (yes boring but it's isk) and then you don't worry if you do get blown up .. I keep a backup ship anyway.

And watch Local chat now and then .. sometimes you'll get a warning from other players 'sometimes'

[Circadian_Seeker]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

so in other words, some of you play the game just to slave away for someone else to have all the real fun. Which would be PVP... got it. Nice game economy you have there. Kind of why joining a Corporation so early for new players isn't all the enticing of an idea. But I guess you enjoy that kind of thing I guess.

It's not slaving, it's trading. People get the materials you need to build your mission ships and modules (megacyte, zydrine, moon minerals and t3 materials) as a reward for exposing themselves to pvp-free areas of the game. So you pay money in exchange for these thing you can't get, and that exchange is the reason you DON'T have to do pvp. In the split server scenario you can't really craft anything bigger than a destroyer (you can get some zydrine and megacyte off gravimetric sites I believe, but it's so rare everything requiring it would be crazy expencive). So the fact that someone can hop over in jita and buy his ship is because his php has payed for said ship, by making the materials available. If everyone had to get his own materials it would force pvpers to go mine, and miners to go pvp, and the whole point of this thread is "I don't wanna be forced into activities I don't wanna do, namely pvp".

[Xenrek]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

I just noticed something on the news page.

Multiple character training?

There is hope for you yet!

(after reading some more)

I take that back. Money grab, buy a plex. (IE. Here's another 15 bucks so I can ....)

the multi character training was a joke from the beginning, same price as a second account, but you can only play with 1 character instead of 2. it is literally only for people two lazy to spend 5 minutes making a new account. (though at the same time, its easier to train up a character on an as needed absis like that without worrying about perma-funding a secodn account, but still)

[exochan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

I just noticed something on the news page.

Multiple character training?

There is hope for you yet!

(after reading some more)

I take that back. Money grab, buy a plex. (IE. Here's another 15 bucks so I can ....)

you do realise we've had multiple character training for months right? Sure it costs money but if your good at the game you could just buy the plex of the market.

[Xenrek]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Mr Eos:

I just noticed something on the news page.

Multiple character training?

There is hope for you yet!

(after reading some more)

I take that back. Money grab, buy a plex. (IE. Here's another 15 bucks so I can ....)

Also hotshot, free expansions/content year round, only thing to pay for ebing subs, is a whole lot more than you get from other MMO's, ones who make you pay monthly AND pay extra for every expansion. so i think a little harmless cash-grabbing is tolerable, not like their selling extremely rare or valuable ships for money. oh WAIT, SOMERBlink was GIVEN a bunch of super-rare ships by CCP to had out to all their friends in rigged raffles, my bad.

[Duster]

IMO agree pvp is unfair. I'm 4 months in. Tech 2/ level 5 skills take months/years to train so against vets you're really at disadvantage. Also, in pvp you lose your ship and millions in implants if pod killed. ten level 5 implants, which speed up skill training, or give hardwired skills can cost a billion dollars, which new players can't afford to lose. So going to lo sec is too high risk for new players. They say join a corp, and then say don't trust anyone. They say don't fly what you can't afford to lose, but provide meager ways to make money unless you play a lot. Insurance is expensive and doesnt pay 100%. They have corps who's sole purpose is to suicide gank( kill) miners. New players pay the highest taxes through the NPC corps that you initially are placed in. In forums most vets are very negative and animately oppose change making it easier for new players to compete or earn money. Many ships have recently doubled in price. Its a good unique game and the skill training, complexity, ships and component planning, are very good, but new players definitely cant compete in pvp. well you can but you die quickly and lose everything.

[Xenrek]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Duster:

IMO agree pvp is unfair. I'm 4 months in. Tech 2/ level 5 skills take months/years to train so against vets you're really at disadvantage. Also, in pvp you lose your ship and millions in implants if pod killed. ten level 5 implants, which speed up skill training, or give hardwired skills can cost a billion dollars, which new players can't afford to lose. So going to lo sec is too high risk for new players. They say join a corp, and then say don't trust anyone. They say don't fly what you can't afford to lose, but provide meager ways to make money unless you play a lot. Insurance is expensive and doesnt pay 100%. They have corps who's sole purpose is to suicide gank( kill) miners. New players pay the highest taxes through the NPC corps that you initially are placed in. In forums most vets are very negative and animately oppose change making it easier for new players to compete or earn money. Many ships have recently doubled in price. Its a good unique game and the skill training, complexity, ships and component planning, are very good, but new players definitely cant compete in pvp. well you can but you die quickly and lose everything.

first off, any newbie who was tricked into getting anything above cheap-ass level 3 implants is an idiot, or is the victim of a very convincing dumbass. level 3's are cheap, and are what 90% of the vets use 100% of the time anyways, especially if you want to pvp without much loss. second, if your in lowsec their is no valid excuse for getting your pod killed, its almost impossible to kill a pod there. third, if your having probelms with suicide gankers, quit living so close to the "trade hubs" and avoid known pirate systems (Niarja anyone?), the further away from trae hubs you are, generally the less people, and that means more profit for a miner (Hint hint, open your starmap, and under the filters set it to show # of pilots docked, in space, and thenf inally how many jum,ps have been made in the last hour, will really help you pick out a decent highsec to live in alone).

third, if you absolutely, inarguably have to pvp at an early age, get in a corp, but do not be afraid to tell any control-freaks to GTFO and leave, best corps for newbies are active, small, fun corps, usually filled with alcoholic australians. once in this corp, propose a roam one night whiel everyones drunk, you may think tech 2 weapons and what not are "super important", but youll quickly realize in fights ov more than 5v5, that thedifference between meta-4 guns with T1 ammo, and meta-2 with T2 ammo becomes negligible, allowing noobies in full-on swarm-mode to overwhelm and blap even trained vets. dont believe me? ill reiterate my story about how 6 months intot he game with NO combat skills except barely the requirements to sit in acruiser entted me and 4 friends a Faction-fit vindicator kill (roughly 3-4 billion at that time) in a fleet that costed us less than 300 mil, and even then we only lost about half of us to the carriers that warped in to save the battleship.

[exochan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hekantonkheries:

third, if you absolutely, inarguably have to pvp at an early age, get in a corp, but do not be afraid to tell any control-freaks to GTFO and leave, best corps for newbies are active, small, fun corps, usually filled with alcoholic australians. once in this corp, propose a roam one night whiel everyones drunk, you may think tech 2 weapons and what not are "super important", but youll quickly realize in fights ov more than 5v5, that thedifference between meta-4 guns with T1 ammo, and meta-2 with T2 ammo becomes negligible, allowing noobies in full-on swarm-mode to overwhelm and blap even trained vets. dont believe me? ill reiterate my story about how 6 months intot he game with NO combat skills except barely the requirements to sit in acruiser entted me and 4 friends a Faction-fit vindicator kill (roughly 3-4 billion at that time) in a fleet that costed us less than 300 mil, and even then we only lost about half of us to the carriers that warped in to save the battleship.

yeah fleet combat makes it very easy to win combat. For example I finally got into a fleet from Bombers Bar and in a few hours I'd been been involved in 1bn worth of kills (a 600m legion strategic cruiser came along). Sure stealth bomber gate camps are probadly unfair but what the hell.