Jaguar as fast shield tank?

[Axlsgolden]

What are you thinking about the Minmatar Jaguar as a very fast shield tanking ship? I need about two weeks to complete the skills for it. At the moment I enjoy flying a Rifter as my main ship. I want to start the 30 missions of "Sisters of EVE". Somebody told me that the missions are tough at the end. My Rifter has an invulnerabilty field, 3 small autocannons (small EMP munition; there is a variety of ammunition I know) 2 ods (overdrive...increases power of machine)
an item with 7% resistance against some kinds of damage and a small shield booster and 1 rig (I forgot the name of the thing, something like "projectile accelerator") and of cause Afterburner 1 NM. Is that enough to start the sisters?

Today is a workshop in the EVE-helpchannel "fitting of ships a.s.o. at 6o clock EVE time....very good \o/

[Red Shift]

Like you said, theres a fair few skills needed to fly it, plus the cost of buying it. You get a destroyer for completing the advanced military chain which would be a also be a suitable ship for it and would allow you to jump in to the chain much quicker.

If you ever want ideas on a suitable fit, you can allways google seomthing to the effect of: "eve pve fit rifter"

[Baneken]

Unless you have exceptionally high skills for SOE-mission chain,, breaking the tank of certain NPC's will be difficult.
Unless the missions have changed since I did those with my alt years ago, you will ikely need help to complite the mission though I sometimes suspect if the mission is that hard on purpose to force you to get help from the local.

Anyway my alt had a cormorant (before destroyer stats were tweaked) and somewhat crappy skills and all though the NPC in the mission did low damage, which I tanked easily, he had enough tank that I ran out of ammo twice before I was forced to either pick my main from 40j away or ask help from the local.
My hero had a battlecruiser that wiped the floor with the baddie in no time.

[Red Shift]

You do still need back up for the final boss, I think you need something in the region of 200dps, so defintely a lesson in learning to find a fleet, though at least you are at pretty much zero risk from him.
The dangers of the chain are when you get overwhelmed with drones/frigates - I only just made it back for repairs on a few occasions.

[Axlsgolden]

Thx for your help. I think I have to ask for help from my contact list if it is getting too tough. 200dps? O, my god..my ship has about 40-50 dps atm... but it will increase during the progression of the missions. There are 30 missions! EVE workshop was very good today..I´ve learnt something how to use ISIS and "mastery" together to build up an useful skill/ship-plan.

Fly safe and deadly! /o

[Shotgun]

OP, before we continue and I give you "Shotgun-tier" advice, please tell me how many skill points your character has, and how long you've been playing.

[Axlsgolden]

引用自 Shotgun：

OP, before we continue and I give you "Shotgun-tier" advice, please tell me how many skill points your character has, and how long you've been playing.

Thx, I have 772000 skill points a.t.m. and I started playing on 30.1.2014. At the beginning I have lost 1 day of skill time. So I started on; I can say on 1.2.2014
Now I have a bunch of ships. For the Jaguar I need 18 days more (ISIS).
I´ve completed nearly all tutorial missions. Only 2 left, then I will fly to the Sisters of EVE.
Sometimes I´m in 0.5 systems for business...buying some very cheap Small ccc`s for example and sell them in my actual system, where they are much more expensive. For gods sake I wasn`t warp disrupted until now ;-) But the day will come soon that I have to return in the pod or dead...I know...this is the game.

I´m relative slow in progressing missions, because I take part of workshops and the help channel. A lot to read! Tons of information! But it is fascinating

[Shotgun]

Okay.

First of all, you should know that the Jaguar is an Assault Frigate. While you can do pve stuff in them since they're essentially heavily-upgraded versions of Tech I frigates, I wouldn't suggest you do, since there are more efficient methods.

What you should do is train for cruisers. They will give you a significant boost in firepower and tanking ability, without costing nearly as much as AFs, and insurring at much better rates (T2 ships like the Jaguar have very inefficient insurance). Note that this doesn't necessarily mean that bigger ships are always better; all types and classes of ships have their roles.

So yeah, train for cruisers, and cruiser-sized weaponry. Since you're focusing on Minmatar, that will be Minmatar Cruisers (skill) and Medium Projectile Turrets (skill). Training both to level 3 should take less than a day, although you should get them to 4 sooner rather than later.

You should probably get a Rupture, and actively armor-tank it for pve stuff:

Lows: resist mods (energized adaptive nanos, active hardeners, damage control, stuff like that); medium armor repairer(s) - two would mean you have a double-tank, but it would be cap-intensive; maybe a damage mod (gyrostabilizer)

Mids: 10mn afterburner, cap rechargers

Highs: guns (medium projectile turrets (autocannons = high dps, high tracking low range; artillery = low dps, low tracking, high range; don't mix gun types)

Rigs: cap recharge or armor resist/repair amount rigs

You can always Google for setups.

[Baneken]

a quick rundown of ship sizes for mission running :

I've used ishkur in PvE where it's flight of 5 (light) drones really shine but for a beginner side of PvE it's either a destroyer or a cruiser.
Now a destroyer used to be a pretty much a flying coffin but thankfully they have been tweaked a bit but I still wouldn't use a destroyer as a beginner.
A destroyer seems like an upgrade but they have a cruiser sized sig, a frigate's tank and frigate guns so not very good for pve.

So cruiser it is and for a cruiser you need a medium sized fittings that is rigs and everything.
A cruiser is also slightly slower and bigger then a frigate, however unlike a destroyer a cruiser can have a good tank (and some PvP setups used to be near unkillable with absurd amounts of EHP, though it left no room for weapons... )

So after a cruiser you have a battle cruiser, like a destroyer a BC also sits between size categories having a large signature radius, being slow but having good tank and fire power but not nearly as good as the next class which is the battleship.
A battlecruiser also uses medium size fittings but for PvE a battle cruiser is both too big and too small as missions from levels 1 and 2 can be done with a cruiser or even a frigate and lvl 3 (in general) needs a BC and lvl 4's are a struggle with BC.

So last item is the battleship, your bread and butter of lvl 4 mission running they sport good tanks and good damage (large guns have huge difficulties hitting elite scrambling frigates so beware in missions !).
So from BS onwards fitting size is large and the ship it self is SLOW in everything if you're used to flying frigates or cruisers before hopping in to a BS.
Battleship is also biggest ship in the fleet of the so called 'sub-capitals' so named because capital ships used to require a battleship V (30days of training) and were considered as a stepping stone of sorts.

As far as missions go your goal at first is to have enough standings for a lvl 4 agent from there on your standings for the agent and faction really start to rise up and so do the rewards you receive from missions.
You will also learn that simply sitting in a ship without adequate skills accomplishes nothing so before you make a change in ship size make sure you have enough SP for all the modules and support skills for the new ship.

[Axlsgolden]

Now I have a bunch of ships, including a rupture. I joined a small corp with some beginners and veterans in it. Some af them are miners in Highsec (and want to stay there) and more interested in economical stuff. Very small corp. and we are looking in which direction developemnt will go. For me, I train all the skill for rupture to complete mastership I. I´m fitting it like shotgun said. I have a plan to fit the rupture for rat hunting with the comrades in low sec. But it is difficult. Anyway it will work in the next weeks. when my ship is destroyed..np I´m buying a new one (market prices a.t.m. for a rupture about 10 million to 15 million ISK) not to forget the fitting costs. Never fly expensinsive things.
Thx for your help. Both (shotgun/Baneken) good advices.
Tons of information. But I would like to make missions first and then hunting down rats.
Corporation is 24 jumps away in Caldari State. I was there for the first time. it took me about 30 mins to reach corp. system. I make the sisters first and then the rats.
Selling all useless stuff in my first system..I´ve completed all Beginner missions.

[Shotgun]

Do keep in mind that the Minmatar don't really have good pve ships until you get to battleships. The above Rupture setup I gave you is rather unconventional, but should work as a stopgap for a while.

I also don't suggest you stick around in the tiny carebear corporation for a very long time. If you do, their ways might start rubbing off on you and you might become hesitant to get into the pvp side of things, which is crucial for the learning process.

[Axlsgolden]

引用自 Shotgun：

Do keep in mind that the Minmatar don't really have good pve ships until you get to battleships. The above Rupture setup I gave you is rather unconventional, but should work as a stopgap for a while.

I also don't suggest you stick around in the tiny carebear corporation for a very long time. If you do, their ways might start rubbing off on you and you might become hesitant to get into the pvp side of things, which is crucial for the learning process.

Thank you very much for your proposals. I´m "overburdened by information". But one thing is clear: You can`t do anything well in EVE, especially in the beginning. Finding a suitable role is a stop and go of thoughts. Maybe this is the interesting thing in the game. But you are right with your assesment of being drawn from mining to chasing rats by other players. I will give it a chance, because EVE is a MMOPRG, but you can make also MSORPG (means: massive singleplayer online...) now I joined the corp and I want to try out if it matches between us.
We are only 5 players. So we start the thing from the Big Bang \o/

I want to start with combat (PVP-PVE) the next few days...maybe today ;-)

It is impossible to do mining, exploration, economics and combat well at the same time. Skills will last for years. I know.

Oha, server DT at the moment. Iwanted to show you my fitting of the rupture. Later on ,thx.

[Baneken]

Well being oevrwhelmed in EVE is pretty common and you will find out eventually that even vets don't know it all.
I know a lot about EVE but I still have to refresh my memory from time to time and there are still plenty of things that I'm not entirely familiar with.
I've also managed to lose two battleships in a row because I was so sure I rembered the mission right and screwed up the spawns twice with wrong resists ... (I needed a quick buck after a campaign in null ).

[Axlsgolden]

引用自 Baneken：

Well being oevrwhelmed in EVE is pretty common and you will find out eventually that even vets don't know it all.
I know a lot about EVE but I still have to refresh my memory from time to time and there are still plenty of things that I'm not entirely familiar with.
I've also managed to lose two battleships in a row because I was so sure I rembered the mission right and screwed up the spawns twice with wrong resists ... (I needed a quick buck after a campaign in null ).

also good hints. Thx bro. Learning never ends in life and especially in EVE ;-)

I´m now in Caldari Republic (24 jumps away), with my rupture and a rifter and a mamooth..rest is sold (two ships left there). This evening we start level 2 missions in a fleet in the corp. My first "fleet". Travelling the 24 jumps with 3 ships took me hours while watching the universe (autopilot). First I thought, it may be better to buy the ships in the new system. But no, it is better to travel with the full fitted ships. The next "big" trading point from my corps base is Jita. Galente system has awesome graphics. Have fun.

Best thing is to have a lot of ships, distributed all over the system. The capsule is very slow (172m/s)

[Baneken]

Capsule is slow but it jumps in an instant (ie. near 0 align time) so it's near impossible to catch but it's always safe to use anything but a capsule.
I once nearly lost my shuttke & egg to a smart bombing gang in low sec, my friend wasn't as lucky he used his egg to travel with me ...

Also you should learn to avoid using autopilot early on even if using AP to pilot while you take a dump seems so very vey convenient at times ...

[Shotgun]

引用自 Axlsgolden：

I´m now in Caldari Republic (24 jumps away), with my rupture and a rifter and a mamooth..rest is sold (two ships left there). This evening we start level 2 missions in a fleet in the corp. My first "fleet".

I feel obligated to warn you that you're setting down the wrong path here. Don't stick around doing this for more than two to three weeks, because it will be too difficult to break away from the carebear mentality after enough time passes. I've seen it happen too many times to count.