How to Defend against Warp Blocking stuff ?

[Antearz]

I went about my Business with my Destroyer.
And then some Guy Warped in and Attacked me.
His First Salvo scrapped my Shields. I returned Fire but basicly did no Damage.
His Ship and Equipment was simply massively Superior with no way for me to possibly Win.
So I tried to Run.

Thing is. My Warp and Engine were blocked.
I could neither get Distance nor Warp.


So.
How to Defend against this ?
Is there a Module that can prevent Warp Blocks or something ?

[ChaosKhan]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Not gonna bother Reading that.
You are Literally Running a Script to Identify the Guy who Killed me.
You also made some Obvious Lies to pretend that I am Lying which I however can only Prove wrong by giving You the Link of the Guy which killed me.
But I cant do because it makes it obvious where I am.


Just Accept Reality Mate.
Balancing in this Game is Simply Poor. The Gankers Operate with a Massive Advantage to the Point that the only Real Danger to them is other Gankers.
And You want it that way because You are clearly one such Ganker Yourself.
Thats also obvious because right away the only thing you cared about. Was losing the Guaranteed ability to Kill someone once You managed to Tag them.

Frankly. This in itself should send Alarms Ringing right away. Because its basicly Showing You are Perfectly Aware that the Attacker has the absolute Advantage.
If Like You Say. it was so easy to Avoid this. Then it would not matter at all if they made it so that the Warp Scrambler only Delayed the Warp. Or that Ships worth only 2 Million get a Bonus to Warp Stability due to being too Simple to be affected by Scrambling etc.
After all. Nothing would Change :)
But its because You know Perfectly well that this would actually change things and make it harder to Kill New Players. That You Resist it to the Point of Making up Bullcrab.
Welcome to Ignore.

How about YOU finally accept reality? The reality, that you are simply a bad EVE player right now, and wrong?

Everyone tells you, where you made mistakes, but you repeat the same stuff over and over again, as if you believe to be some matrix inhabitant and only you see the objective truth, while everyone around you is an agent and wants to take you down. Do you have a hero complex or something?

Don't expect the game to adjust to you. Learn to play the game instead. Truth is so easy, yet you refuse it and keep arguing.

[Harrison]

This thread made my boring day at work bearable, I'm only sorry I didn't have popcorn to go along with it.

I've been on both sides of the equation that OP described, I've hunted with and been hunted by covert cloak equipped ships, I know all the tricks and I've still caught and been caught. Some days you're just going to be unlucky and lose a ship, that's EVE.

OP, I think the best thing you can do is chalk it up as a lesson learned and keep doing what you have fun with.

However, and I think you've already noticed this but I'm going to put it into words, insisting that EVE needs rock-paper-scissors style counters is, at best, going to get your opinion ignored and, at worst, scorned. CCP has been moving away from hard counters for years, they don't want it in their game. Just look at immunity to warp disruption bubbles, there used to be a whole slew of ships that were able to warp through them at will, now it's simply the humble shuttle and everyone else has to choose whether or not use a module that has to be activated to be effective.

EVE, at it's heart, is a game of consequences and conflict. You risk losing your ship every time you undock because that's how the developers want the game to be played.

If you want to have a less risky gameplay experience then stick to these systems: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

[Seithan]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Publicado originalmente por Lactose the Intolerant:

You're lying, or otherwise weren't paying attention. Ships show up on directional scan. You could have used this to see a ship was landing on you with you in the next 30 seconds and prepared accordingly. But you did not do this.

When a ship warps in on a grid it takes time for it to land and be able to act, just like when you warp in on somewhere. The time for a ship to appear on grid and become active is about 5-12 seconds depending on the size of the ship.

The ship then needs to lock you, which takes a minimum of 2 seconds for a ship specifically built to lock on quickly, but this would be 5-10 if you're in a destroyer and he's in a larger ship.

So you had 30 seconds to see the ship on your scanner. But you weren't using your scanner. You then had another 10-22 seconds to warp out after the ship began to land on grid. But you failed to notice this.

So yes there is plenty you can do to prevent yourself from being warp scrambled, actually. But you didn't do anything of those things and instead sat there and did nothing, not paying attention, and died as a result.

That is not a game design issue, it is a skill issue. If was the former and not the latter there would be instances where I have been warp scrambled when I did not expect it to happen, however I never have this problem because I align, use my scanner, stay alert, use a proper overview set up and so on.

Mate. I Realize that Gankers like You dont want to lose the Ability to Kill the only Enemy You can actually beat in PvP. Which is New Players like me which dont have Strong Equipment and Skills to actually Fight back Yet.
But making up Bullcrab and Pretending others are Lying is not gonna Help.
Its also pretty Pathetic.

TLDR.
No Mate. I did not Lie. I noticed the Guy very much the moment he Popped up on the List.
Hard to Miss Really. Given that he is Red with a Skull etc.
And that moment he Popped up in the List. He was Attacking.
There was no Delay in this. And certainly not 30 Seconds.
And before You Ask. No there was no Way for him to be on the Lower List either. The List was Limited to General in the Open. So it was only Half the Possible List being Filled. So the moment he was Visible he Popped onto the List.

Thats Simply a Fact Mate.
So if there is no Way to Defend against this. Then this is a Flawed Game Design which Promotes Ganking of Newer Players.
A Flaw which You are obviously very Defensive about and would rather like to stay this Way.

Publicado originalmente por miss shapiro:

you can equip a Burst Jammer in a mid-slot. it has a chance of breaking your opponent's lock, giving you some time to escape.

you can also fit a Warp Core Stabilizer, which will counter a Warp Scrambler or Warp Disruptor. however, if your opponent is using a higher-tier faction Warp Scrambler, or just two cheap warp scramblers, your warp core stabilizer won't be enough.

if your ship can launch drones, you can launch EC-300 or EC-600 drones. these are ECM drones that have a chance of breaking your enemy's lock as well.

Now that is actually way more useful Advice than the Bull from the other Guy.


This Warp Core Stabilizer. Can You maybe just use two of these to Counter it if the Enemy is using two Scramblers ?

Also. How big is the Chance of the ECM stuff to make the Enemy Lose Target ?
Is this likely ? Or is this more of an Offchance thing ?

I'm a newbro myself but judging by your replies, i can only assume you have even less experience: but don't worry, you will soon understand how the game is played and how much golden the first two answers were; as long as you fail to understand them, you will keep getting rekt and that's the end of it. The best defense is being proactive and always on the look out. Read again the first replies, they are pure gold.

[Antearz]

Publicado originalmente por ChaosKhan:

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Not gonna bother Reading that.
You are Literally Running a Script to Identify the Guy who Killed me.
You also made some Obvious Lies to pretend that I am Lying which I however can only Prove wrong by giving You the Link of the Guy which killed me.
But I cant do because it makes it obvious where I am.


Just Accept Reality Mate.
Balancing in this Game is Simply Poor. The Gankers Operate with a Massive Advantage to the Point that the only Real Danger to them is other Gankers.
And You want it that way because You are clearly one such Ganker Yourself.
Thats also obvious because right away the only thing you cared about. Was losing the Guaranteed ability to Kill someone once You managed to Tag them.

Frankly. This in itself should send Alarms Ringing right away. Because its basicly Showing You are Perfectly Aware that the Attacker has the absolute Advantage.
If Like You Say. it was so easy to Avoid this. Then it would not matter at all if they made it so that the Warp Scrambler only Delayed the Warp. Or that Ships worth only 2 Million get a Bonus to Warp Stability due to being too Simple to be affected by Scrambling etc.
After all. Nothing would Change :)
But its because You know Perfectly well that this would actually change things and make it harder to Kill New Players. That You Resist it to the Point of Making up Bullcrab.
Welcome to Ignore.

How about YOU finally accept reality? The reality, that you are simply a bad EVE player right now, and wrong?

Everyone tells you, where you made mistakes, but you repeat the same stuff over and over again, as if you believe to be some matrix inhabitant and only you see the objective truth, while everyone around you is an agent and wants to take you down. Do you have a hero complex or something?

Don't expect the game to adjust to you. Learn to play the game instead. Truth is so easy, yet you refuse it and keep arguing.

Oh Look. The other Ganker which Left earlier claiming he would no longer bother with this. Has returned.
What a Surprise.

And well. The Game has Survived this Long because it is Updating itself to the Times.
So me Asking for the Game to Fix Issues and being Improved doesnt seem that Bad to me.
Albeit I absolutely understand why Gankers such as Yourself would rather keep the Game in a broken state where Gankers have the Advantage by Default.

Publicado originalmente por Harrison:

This thread made my boring day at work bearable, I'm only sorry I didn't have popcorn to go along with it.

I've been on both sides of the equation that OP described, I've hunted with and been hunted by covert cloak equipped ships, I know all the tricks and I've still caught and been caught. Some days you're just going to be unlucky and lose a ship, that's EVE.

OP, I think the best thing you can do is chalk it up as a lesson learned and keep doing what you have fun with.

However, and I think you've already noticed this but I'm going to put it into words, insisting that EVE needs rock-paper-scissors style counters is, at best, going to get your opinion ignored and, at worst, scorned. CCP has been moving away from hard counters for years, they don't want it in their game. Just look at immunity to warp disruption bubbles, there used to be a whole slew of ships that were able to warp through them at will, now it's simply the humble shuttle and everyone else has to choose whether or not use a module that has to be activated to be effective.

EVE, at it's heart, is a game of consequences and conflict. You risk losing your ship every time you undock because that's how the developers want the game to be played.

If you want to have a less risky gameplay experience then stick to these systems: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

Frankly. After how many Times I mentioned that I am not bothered by the Loss of a Small Destroyer worth 2 Million. (( I could Buy 50 of those right now if I wanted to....)) I have to Assume that You are on Purpose doing this to Troll....

And well Mate. Thats a Nice Idea and all.
Except. It is 100% Rock Paper Scissors Right Now.
The Warp Scrambler is the Hardcounter to any Player trying to Escape rather than Fight.
With the Game Forcing Players into LowSec by making sure that even Basic Stuff is only Available there.

If the Game did not want to have Hardcounters. Then as I said before. Modules on both Sides would have Dynamic Soft Effects. Meaning the Warp Scrambler would Increase the Time it Takes to Warp out. While a Stabilizer would Decrease that Effect.
Thus Creating a Situation. Where both sides have a Chance based on their Decisions and Skill. Rather than the Ganker Winning by Default due to his Warp Scrambler and Webifier being a Full Hardcounter to any attempt to Escape.

Publicado originalmente por Seithan:

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Mate. I Realize that Gankers like You dont want to lose the Ability to Kill the only Enemy You can actually beat in PvP. Which is New Players like me which dont have Strong Equipment and Skills to actually Fight back Yet.
But making up Bullcrab and Pretending others are Lying is not gonna Help.
Its also pretty Pathetic.

TLDR.
No Mate. I did not Lie. I noticed the Guy very much the moment he Popped up on the List.
Hard to Miss Really. Given that he is Red with a Skull etc.
And that moment he Popped up in the List. He was Attacking.
There was no Delay in this. And certainly not 30 Seconds.
And before You Ask. No there was no Way for him to be on the Lower List either. The List was Limited to General in the Open. So it was only Half the Possible List being Filled. So the moment he was Visible he Popped onto the List.

Thats Simply a Fact Mate.
So if there is no Way to Defend against this. Then this is a Flawed Game Design which Promotes Ganking of Newer Players.
A Flaw which You are obviously very Defensive about and would rather like to stay this Way.







Now that is actually way more useful Advice than the Bull from the other Guy.


This Warp Core Stabilizer. Can You maybe just use two of these to Counter it if the Enemy is using two Scramblers ?

Also. How big is the Chance of the ECM stuff to make the Enemy Lose Target ?
Is this likely ? Or is this more of an Offchance thing ?

I'm a newbro myself but judging by your replies, i can only assume you have even less experience: but don't worry, you will soon understand how the game is played and how much golden the first two answers were; as long as you fail to understand them, you will keep getting rekt and that's the end of it. The best defense is being proactive and always on the look out. Read again the first replies, they are pure gold.

This Newbro has Earned himself a Retriever by doing Lowsec Mining Runs for Days.
Thanks. I am well aware how to Run in Hardcore Games.


And Yes. The First Advisory Comment was indeed True.
(The Second Advice was actually Complete Rubbish but if You didnt bother reading that already then You wont do that now either....)

But that is exactly the thing I am Complaining About.
How is it. That the First Piece of Advice. Which is to Literally do out of Game Background Checks on People. Is the Best Advice against Ganking in a Game ???

What does this Tell You ?

It Tells You that the Game is so Poorly Designed. So Poorly Balanced. That the moment the Ganker Attacks You. You have Already Lost. Because the Game has Granted him the Ability to completely Shut Down any means of Resistance.








But well. If nothing Else. I do Realize that the People in this Forum are mostly Old Hardcore Gankers Perfectly Happy with this Game.
(Which I mean is Fair. Its like 4 People in this Forum it Seems given that barely any of the Topics bother moving. Looking at this Forum. Its basicly every now and then a New Player Complaining about how Bad the Game is. And then the same Few Guys ever and ever again moving in to Shut them Down. If nothing else. I do Commend their Dedication to keep the Ganking Mechanics Safe)
Unfortunately that also means. I am not gonna Win anything over here.
So I.ll withdraw and maybe Check Reddit or the Official Forums if there is more Activity there.

Wish ya a Nice Evening Gents.

[Zen]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

I went about my Business with my Destroyer.
And then some Guy Warped in and Attacked me.
His First Salvo scrapped my Shields. I returned Fire but basicly did no Damage.
His Ship and Equipment was simply massively Superior with no way for me to possibly Win.
So I tried to Run.

Thing is. My Warp and Engine were blocked.
I could neither get Distance nor Warp.


So.
How to Defend against this ?
Is there a Module that can prevent Warp Blocks or something ?

Your first defense is to realise that you are free to do whatever you want - AND SO IS EVERYONE ELSE.

You didn't say if you were in highsec or lowsec/nullsec/wormhole. If the latter, you are free target for anyone. If former, you might have been wardecced, or you might've stolen something, so people could've attack you without being destroyed. Too few info to figure out what actually happen there, and therefore we don't know how to improve your chances to survive.

[Daliena]

Publicado originalmente por Zen:

You didn't say if you were in highsec or lowsec/nullsec/wormhole.

OP said later in the thread that he was in a 0.4 low-sec system. And to quote a not-so-wise man.. "Carelessness will find no clemency here."

In low-sec maybe most out of all.

[dandaboss709]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

So.
How to Defend against this ?

I've seen many responses of many degrees of usefulness and from many perspectives and I'm going to add my response.

EVE is a game where you WILL DIE many times, Its not designed to be a fair game.
If it annoys you that people gank you it annoys most players
All of this hard truth aside, whenever I have been ganked I often found that most of my killers have been happy to tell me where I went wrong.
The best way to avoid much of the work of adding gankers to contacts I believe is to join a corporation.
I am part of a corp designed to help newbros get used to eve and losing ships, we frequently hand out free ships to tech people elements of the game and good techniques. If you wish to join this corp or just talk to some friendly experienced players come and speak up in chat on Astral Acquisitions Inc. Discord server[discord.gg]

[5n4k3d0cToR]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Publicado originalmente por Kodokuro:

Well if someone wants to kill you he for sure is going to achieve that. Is not about fairness or balance in combat. Is not about been prepared for gankers because doing that limits to much the capability of your ship for the activities you want to do.

The point here is to NEVER. NEVER give the chance to be atacked. Be smart. Be paranoid about your safety, specialy if you are in low sec or null. Just asume everyone is a ganker and warp to safety as soon as posible if someone enters local chat.

Do you homework. See the recent kills of the systems you are traveling to (https://zkillboard.com) and add gankers, corporations and alliances names to your contacts with bad standings. YOU SEE RED IN LOCAL. WARP OUT. NO EXCEPTIONS.

At the end the best ship in eve is friendship. So never fly alone and still keep in mind that out there is someone with more friends, time, and money than you.

Are you Saying there is no way to Defend against a Warp Blocker ?

From memory, there are modules which can counter-act...?

[Gatt zulu]

alot of cool things in the game, but yes balancing seems to be a big issue also i find a subscription to play a game a stupid way to spend money. Many poor development choices.

[The[G]amerX]

Use scout.

[Cabal]

Publicado originalmente por Antearz:

Publicado originalmente por Lactose the Intolerant:

Yes, there are dozens of ways to not get warp scrambled in the first place such as by watching your directional scanner, keeping an eye on your overview, staying aligned to a warp out point and so on.

Once you are warp scrambled however, the only ways to break it are to break their target lock on you or travel outside of the scrambler's range.

It should never come to that however as it is literally impossible for someone to warp in on you and kill you if you are paying attention.

Now thats Bull.
He Warped in about 10km away from me. And the moment he Popped up on the List I was Scrambled.

So basicly. There is no Way to Defend against any Bigger Player Ganking You with a Warp Blocker.

Wow. Now thats Poor Game Design.

There is nothing like a "bigger player". That's your brain looking for excuses for your skill issues which is cheap asf.

Warp Core Stabilizers could help but still won't save you from skill issues. Using one might drag your ships potential down big time. Besides, you shouldn't be in this situation in first place.

-> EVE Gatecamp check
-> TwitchTV Uedamascout
-> zkillboard (check locals)
-> Check ingame map for (last ships destroyed in the last hr etc.)

But of course, you can accuse game design like bad loosers always did in the last 20 years.

[ElbowDropGamingTTV]

the best thing to do is get good.