Ships appeared out of nowhere

[TheMarcosianOne]

I'm not going to lie. I was really ticked off when this happened:

I was in nullsec with my Legion and a Nereus (probably spelled wrong) industrial ship was just a little ways away from a Territorial Claim Unit. I combat probe scanned it down and warped to it within 50 kilometers. There was no one else in local so I figured it would be safe to tackle and attack it.

Within literally 10 seconds, two other ships appeared right on top of me and there was no cyno jump gate/beacon and next thing I knew, 4 of us are in local and I was warp disrupted and killed by an assault cruiser and another strong ship.

How the heck do two other players just appear in local AND right on top of me at the same time? I tried asking them and they wouldn't tell me anything.

Anyway, I'm not upset that I lost a ship. I'm more upset that I fell for their bait and that other players could just show up out of nowhere and right on top of me.

What the heck did they do? Since when can a bunch of players appear in the same system and not have to take a half minute to warp to fleet member after jumping through the gate into the system? Even if a cyno did get lit, it can't be lit by a regular industrial ship can it?

[Shotgun]

I'm going to let this go because of the self-admission of mental illness. I'm not even going to bother defending myself against any of those accusations.

I'll simply wish you the best of luck in EVE.

Although I have no idea why anyone with such a condition, or the inability to handle shock and surprises, would choose to play a game of this nature.

[Shotgun]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

Final note: try revealing the last few comments you made before I asked you about looking me up on killboard. You can't because it would make you look bad.

TheMarcosianOne > hey! hows it going?
TheMarcosianOne > just got back to the computer. i had my dinner
TheMarcosianOne > i got rid of the salvager and put in another ballistic control system 2
Shotgun > ah hey
TheMarcosianOne > hi
Shotgun > wasn't even paying attention on this character
TheMarcosianOne > no problem
Shotgun > let me transfer over a few fits
TheMarcosianOne > ok
TheMarcosianOne > you looked me up on the killboard, didnt you?
Shotgun > yes
TheMarcosianOne > :)
Shotgun > I am quite good at intel gathering since I spent years doing wars and such

Pasting this only in the interests of disclosure since I got called out.

I genuinely have no idea what part of that makes me look bad, but you do you.

[Sadpan]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

引用自 Shotgun：

TheMarcosianOne > hey! hows it going?
TheMarcosianOne > just got back to the computer. i had my dinner
TheMarcosianOne > i got rid of the salvager and put in another ballistic control system 2
Shotgun > ah hey
TheMarcosianOne > hi
Shotgun > wasn't even paying attention on this character
TheMarcosianOne > no problem
Shotgun > let me transfer over a few fits
TheMarcosianOne > ok
TheMarcosianOne > you looked me up on the killboard, didnt you?
Shotgun > yes
TheMarcosianOne > :)
Shotgun > I am quite good at intel gathering since I spent years doing wars and such

Pasting this only in the interests of disclosure since I got called out.

I genuinely have no idea what part of that makes me look bad, but you do you.

[ 2021.04.19 23:06:17 ] Shotgun X > I am quite good at intel gathering since I spent years doing wars and such
[ 2021.04.19 23:06:34 ] Amarricius > plus, only one mackinaw went down in sadha this week

Ok, I thought something else was said before but no matter. You still tried to sound like a big shot and I playfully called you on it as you can read in the partial log up above. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

I can't erase this thread because too many posts were made. I really don't see any more value in arguing. At the end of the day, we are both going to play the game within whatever boundaries we choose to set for ourselves and I have no desire for this discussion to get any uglier. I have as much right to feel disappointed and frustrated when things don't go well and vice versa for anyone else. For what's it's worth, I honestly apologize for even sharing the experience that I did in this thread because I didn't handle it too well.

But don't kid yourself: If CCP made it harder for corp gangs to suicide gank and take several types of scams and cheat shots on players, you can bet that a lot of "reputable PvPers" would be whining too. That's probably why they changed the Cargo Scanner mechanic. All this denigration from both sides isn't going to change one iota with the hard-core suicide ganker crowd or with the carebear crowd so I will see how much more I will put into this game before I either decide to try something different in-game, or move onto something else.

That's all I have to say.

tl;dr- you felt threatened by him saying that one line? That sounds like an experience issue for you, not a humility issue for him. Most users who spent at least a little while participating in various wars and conflicts in EVE should have a confident grasp of intel gathering, he said this specifically because he knows you lack that same experience. It's not impressive in the slightest, it's an expectation. You would know this if you had more experience in the "multiplayer aspect" of this game- PvP.

[firestar587]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

引用自 Sadpan：

tl;dr- you felt threatened by him saying that one line? That sounds like an experience issue for you, not a humility issue for him. Most users who spent at least a little while participating in various wars and conflicts in EVE should have a confident grasp of intel gathering, he said this specifically because he knows you lack that same experience. It's not impressive in the slightest, it's an expectation. You would know this if you had more experience in the "multiplayer aspect" of this game- PvP.

Nobody is feeling threatened here. I'm just saying that a couple other people found out who I was from the clues I gave out and they weren't bragging that they "Intel gathered " to find out who I was. That's just silly.

and yet YOU brought it up first

[firestar587]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

引用自 firestar587：

and yet YOU brought it up first

Your point?

pretty toxic to complain about somebody talking about something you brought up

[firestar587]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

Ok fine, I will explain because you won't read it all:

My point was that Shotgun has a pattern of exaggerating probabilities to help prove down an argument. I was explaining why I used a Legion with cov ops and interdiction nullification and he was basically making the argument that interdiction nullification wasn't good enough because there might be a gate camp with a hundred players with drones scattered all over the place and that's a VERY low-probability supposition. I cruised through nullsec for 40 or 50 jumps a few times to do data sites and the vast majority of gate camps are a few farts in T2 destroyers with interdiction bubbles. I never said cov ops + interdiction nullification was 100% safe but in terms of probability, it's ridiculous to downplay the benefits of what I put on the Legion just because of a massive gate camp.

You could suppose anything. You could suppose that some rich player hires 20 people and skill injects them all to be able to fly a deadly fleet through nullsec and wipe out a bunch of corps' ships. You can suppose anything. If you want hard counters in this game, then Don't Undock.

I brought Shotgun's conversation into the mix because he tries too hard to look knowledgeable and like he knows everything when all he has to do is cut the bull and just make a straight point without deflection and equivocation when trying to explain things.

Yes, I brought it up. So sue me!

pretty much all of his advice has been good, just because 1 thing he said was a bit extreme doesn't mean the rest is bad

[Sadpan]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

引用自 firestar587：

pretty much all of his advice has been good, just because 1 thing he said was a bit extreme doesn't mean the rest is bad

He's given me good advice, I can't deny. I'm not making this a black and white issue, but when someone starts laying bull in front of me a couple of times, I'm going to call them on it, especially when someone just calls my fit "absolute crap" and doesn't explain why except to use an alt and save two slots for something other than scanning equipment.

Well guess what? $25/month Cdn is my limit for one character. I'm not going to pay to play with two characters at the same time just to send a smaller ship ahead of a bigger one when the bigger one can go through twice as many gate camps as the small cov ops one. He's suggesting I do that just in case I hit a gate camp that is 100 strong and determined to catch a T3 cruiser. You know what? If they made the effort to orchestrate that big of a camp, they deserve to gank a T3 cruiser for all that effort. It's ot easy to organize all that and it's not a cheap shot. More power to them.

Didn't shotgun recommend for you to go run abyssal sites since you have the skills for them after injecting? That could easily pay for an alt in two or three days... btw you can have an alpha scout in a shuttle for free.

[Myriad]

引用自 Shotgun：

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

I guess where I was coming from regarding suicide ganking is that just because the game allows something doesn't mean it's socially acceptable and that the person getting ganked has to be an emotionless robot.

I could take my Skiff right beside a noob in a venture and suck every rock dry that he's mining just to tick him off and get to him mentally and keep following him around. Does the game allow me to do that? Yes. Would I be an posterior perforation? Definitely.

I mean, you'd be acting like pretty much any ordinary miner if you did that. You think those people are concerned with whose rock they mine? They aren't. The game is only "unfair" when someone is doing something to them, and not the other way around.

Once you realize that the average carebear behaves like a locust, all of the guilt from killing them goes away completely. They're prey animals, nothing more. They will mindlessly graze and consume resources around them, and when one of them gets caught by a predator, it will bray and scream on the forums like a dying antelope.

You shouldn't feel guilty about consuming these creatures, just like you shouldn't feel sad or angry when another predator outplays you and you become their meal. That's the natural environment of EVE. Your only concern should be making it to the top of the food chain, and the only way you're going to accomplish that is by being more self-conscious and logical than everyone else.

I have to comment on this because you're only half right. Not all miners are locusts. Believe me. I've dipped into many aspects of this game, And mining is one of them. I have Exhumers trained. Even Orcas. So as you can imagine, I've spent A LOT of time on the belts. That's part of the reason why I'm very familiar with gank tactics, and how miners behave in general. Now, sitting there mining is about as exciting as watching grass grow, and most of the time I'd rather have a kick in the nuts than stare at a rock all day, so don't think that's all I do. But sometimes you're just not in the mood to get into something too engaging.

That said, people who put other people down for mining are clueless individuals who can't think for themselves, and tend to jump on band wagons whenever they see them. How else do they think the ships that they go ganking in are manufactured...? And on top of that.. CODE/SAFETY MINES!! I see them, trust me. They mine themselves and gank other miners. I use SAFETY because they're commonly known. But there are other mining corps that gank other miners in High Sec. I know who they are, don't worry.

Back to the point. When I mine, I'm very respectful of other miners. I'll find my own rock, and won't touch a rock that another is mining at until the belt is almost depleted. I also know many other miners who behave the same way. They don't like it when people mine the same rock as them, and as such, don't do it to other people. Now, there are A LOT of miners who are NOT courteous, and those can be labeled as locusts. Even other miners hate them. And as you've mentioned by the 500mb of conversation you have. A lot are indeed terrible, but not all.

So how do you know the difference? It's easy. Just sit on a belt and watch. If some dude warps in with a few skiffs, and there are a half dozen free rocks, but he targets the one that a lone Orca is sitting at, he's an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I also take notes of who these people are for my own records, so I can better judge the type of person they are in case of future interactions.

And then there's the massive multiboxers that warp in with 10-20 ships and deplete the belt in minutes. Having a few alts is completely fine in my opinion, as long as you're respectful. But anything over four to six is pushing it, and a dozen or more is just plain greed. Those count for a good number of your "locusts" that you should actually feel like you're doing a service to the community by removing them. But the issue is that those people usually get left alone. Could it be that the ones ganking miners are also connected to the ones who are are Manufacturing and selling Barges, Exhumers, and Orcas? Noooo..... That could never happen.. (sarcasm)

Bottom line, you can't stereotype all people just because they're doing the same activity.

[Myriad]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

I'm ice mining right now because sometimes I just want to relax and watch a movie instead of shooting stuff. Sometimes I'm bored so I go do combat sites, security missions or the occasional abbysal site.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Those who say otherwise are just people who will hate on anything you do, regardless of what it is, if it differs from what they do. I won't comment on the maturity of such people. And that has nothing to do with anything in this thread. Just saying, because you hear that crap all throughout Eve's past threads.

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

But don't kid yourself: If CCP made it harder for corp gangs to suicide gank and take several types of scams and cheat shots on players, you can bet that a lot of "reputable PvPers" would be whining too.

Just reading the rest of the Thread since I've been away since Sunday. Again, it has nothing to do with this thread, but if I see something that I believe is true, I'll comment on it, just as another voice to spite the masses.

You're absolutely right. Many people who call others a whiner would cry like a baby to CCP if their way of playing was changed. It's idiocy and ignorance. But you can't argue with these people because they make no sense. A line I find humorous, because it's true, is this...
"Arguing with such people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, they'll knock over the pieces and ♥♥♥♥ all over the board, and strut around like they've won anyway."

I'm not taking sides, and also not thinking that you need to hear that. And ALSO not directing it at anyone in this thread. This thread isn't that bad actually. You just happened to write a comment that made me think of it. Could have been anybody. But it might help other people who may read this thread feel that they're not alone when dealing with such things.

[Myriad]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

Well we had some cool action tonight. A bunch of us were ice mining in HS and two waves of Catalysts came in and took out my MTU. Lost half the ice in it but they lost a few ships trying to suicide gank a retriever. I was in a Skiff thank goodness. The retriever survived. Just got down to some armor damage. Who says ice belts are boring. :)

EDIT: cool action (no pun intended)

Lol. Well that's the thing. The only way you can truly Afk mine in High Sec is if you're in a solo Orca, which doesn't make much Isk.. Maybe 20 mil/hr. Hulks and Covetors fill up WAY too fast and are prime targets. Macks/Retreivers, while having a decent Ore Hold, are still too much of a target to not have your eyes pealed on Local constantly, and Procs/Skiffs still fill up too fast to be away for more than 10 or so minutes.

There's actually more action on the Ice belts than people give credit. And if you're the type to target the gankers quickly, especially if you coordinate with other miners, you can take out a few Catys with Drones, dropping their dps, so the gank fails. It can be pretty engaging. The problem is that you don't know when it's going to happen, so you have to observe things carefully. The only real window you have is right after a gank. Then you know you have 15 minutes until their criminal timers expire before the next gank.

[Myriad]

引用自 TheMarcosianOne：

Well, they certainly kept us on our toes tonight. I just bought the Skiff yesterday. I was using a Retriever before but now that I qualify for Exhumers, I get better ice mining speed and I get 50% drone hitpoints and damage. They got my MTU while I was dumping my hold at a station in the same system as the belt. If I had been at my MTU, I would at least took out one or two catalysts before they escaped.

They attacked the retriever while I was dumping another load. I wish I had been there to help the guy but he did okay and stood his ground. Easy money mining ice. 20,000,000 in an hour to an hour and a quarter isn't bad but yeah, I can't go AFK or else I miss the action and can't help clobber the gankers when they come.

20 mil/hr isn't bad, but isn't great either. You could probably make more with bounties doing Lvl 4 Security Missions. And double that doing Escalations and such. Still it's nice for a change. Haven't done Lvl 4 missions in a while so I don't know the exact figures.

Don't make the mistake of thinking your Skiff is untouchable. 6 Catys could probably take it out in a 0.5 system. And that's not a huge gank fleet by no means. Again I don't know the exact numbers. Now when you see Orcas being ganked by 40 Catys, (actually overkill) you start to feel a lot less secure. The only piece of mind you have is that they can't get groups that big together everyday. But it's not too uncommon to see 10 of them flying around, which can take out a Skiff in a 0.7 or so system.

Drones help. If you can knock off one Caty you might be able to survive it. Obviously I'm talking about a moderately tanked Skiff too. If you have no tank, it will take a lot less. 6 can easily take you in even a 0.7. And if you forgo a few mining upgrade modules and add a Bulkhead and DC in the lows, It will take a lot more.

[Myriad]

The main thing is to not be the prime target. If you're not the weakest ship on the belt, you'll likely be passed over for easier prey. But that's not always the case for various reasons. If a Skiff gets ganked when a Covetor is on the belt, that Covetor could be in with the gankers. Or they could have just chose the Skiff because they had enough numbers. The owner of the Skiff could have trash talked them. Or the Skiff was scanned and found to have an exceptionally bad tank.

Removing an Ice Harvesting Upgrade is a personal choice. I have 3 on mine, but I'm pretty well tanked everywhere else. The issue is that removing one increases your cycle times. I'm not in game at the moment, but I think it's by a fairly considerable amount. And it cuts into your profits over time. On the other hand, loosing a 250 mil Exhumer cuts into your profits too. And then again, if they bring enough numbers and gank you anyway, you just lost out on the reduced cycle times AND lost a Skiff.. So what do you do lol... so ultimately it's your choice.

Being Vigilant is your best defence. It's very rare that I don't notice certain groups when they're roaming. I know when they're active and when they're not. A couple small groups don't worry me. They can at best only take out the Covetor/Retreiver variants. If I know that they're roaming in large groups, I'm much more attentive. Watch out for their scouts getting too close to you... often wolves in sheep's clothing. And if the group is too large, I may just leave the area all together.

Another option is to buy a second Skiff and fit with max tank, for those hot times. Off the top of my head, with full tank in the lows, they can reach upwards of 100k EHP. And then just switch back to high cycle times when things cool down.

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

引用自 Myriad：

The main thing is to not be the prime target. If you're not the weakest ship on the belt, you'll likely be passed over for easier prey.

"To escape an animal, you don't have to run fast.
You just have to run faster than the person running alongside you."

[Myriad]

引用自 Shinta215：

引用自 Myriad：

The main thing is to not be the prime target. If you're not the weakest ship on the belt, you'll likely be passed over for easier prey.

"To escape an animal, you don't have to run fast.
You just have to run faster than the person running alongside you."

Lol. That abstractly applies to Eve yes.

[ZynXao]

if you want to watch the 'decloak cans spam' you can go and check out Oijanen. and no, there arent 100 players sitting on a gate. but there are 100 cans or abandoned drones around the gate which will prevent you from cloaking once your gate cloak expires. it will look someting like this https://imgur.com/V0a6mZC good luck getting out of there.

yes this doesnt happen very often. but it does happen and is another thing to be aware of when you travel through ls/null without a scout.