Ships appeared out of nowhere

[TheMarcosianOne]

I'm not going to lie. I was really ticked off when this happened:

I was in nullsec with my Legion and a Nereus (probably spelled wrong) industrial ship was just a little ways away from a Territorial Claim Unit. I combat probe scanned it down and warped to it within 50 kilometers. There was no one else in local so I figured it would be safe to tackle and attack it.

Within literally 10 seconds, two other ships appeared right on top of me and there was no cyno jump gate/beacon and next thing I knew, 4 of us are in local and I was warp disrupted and killed by an assault cruiser and another strong ship.

How the heck do two other players just appear in local AND right on top of me at the same time? I tried asking them and they wouldn't tell me anything.

Anyway, I'm not upset that I lost a ship. I'm more upset that I fell for their bait and that other players could just show up out of nowhere and right on top of me.

What the heck did they do? Since when can a bunch of players appear in the same system and not have to take a half minute to warp to fleet member after jumping through the gate into the system? Even if a cyno did get lit, it can't be lit by a regular industrial ship can it?

[Sadpan]

Shotgun eredeti hozzászólása:

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

That might not be a bad idea. Heavy Interdictor Cruisers can't be countered in lowsec though no matter how many warp Stabilizers you fit. I lost a Sigil doing distribution missions in lowsec.

I guess if I researched and scoped out a path with an alt and tried to find price disparities across different HS systems, it could work.

Do players still do the huge secure containers trick in their cargo hold to bait suicide gankers? Because that would be funny.

Scans output full values that are properly calculated now, so don't tempt fate.

Your primary goal when transporting items should be to be immune to ganking, either by not carrying too much value per EHP, being impossible to target/catch (e.g. using a sub-2s align time ship), or avoiding common gank areas if possible.

Most trading you do shouldn't take out outside of high-sec, unless you're trying to control some low-sec staging area's market or something.

Disclaimer: sub-2s align time does not make you impossible to catch, just really really really hard to catch. There was a popular streamer who just recently showed this off, if I can find a clip...

Just don't get complacent, besides following Shotgun's superb advice.

[firestar587]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

Shotgun eredeti hozzászólása:

Scans output full values that are properly calculated now, so don't tempt fate.

Your primary goal when transporting items should be to be immune to ganking, either by not carrying too much value per EHP, being impossible to target/catch (e.g. using a sub-2s align time ship), or avoiding common gank areas if possible.

Most trading you do shouldn't take out outside of high-sec, unless you're trying to control some low-sec staging area's market or something.

You mean that cargo scanners reveal the true value of everything in the ship now? I wonder why they changed that. Did a bunch of suicide gankers complain that they kept getting baited into blowing up their ships for nothing? That's kind of dumb. How about trying something else other than not suicide ganking.

Sorry, I'm grumpy because the server is down now.

what is the point of a cargo scanner if it doesn't scan the cargo?

[Shotgun]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

How about trying something else other than not suicide ganking.

Such as?

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

firestar587 eredeti hozzászólása:

what is the point of a cargo scanner if it doesn't scan the cargo?

Well, EVE has counters to everything else in this game. There isn't some physical substance in the universe that can impede a cargo scanner from getting through some form of obfuscation? Why not give every player in the game xray vision while they're at it.

Blockade runner transports are immune to cargo scans.

[firestar587]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

firestar587 eredeti hozzászólása:

what is the point of a cargo scanner if it doesn't scan the cargo?

Well, EVE has counters to everything else in this game. There isn't some physical substance in the universe that can impede a cargo scanner from getting through some form of obfuscation? Why not give every player in the game xray vision while they're at it.

you have to sit there, and let them lock you and then let them see if your worth it before you warp off

seems pretty fair to me

[Shotgun]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Cloaky campers and high sec griefing?
Oh the skills you must have.
CCP should rename Jita after you.

Still beats being a PvE-farming carebear.

[Shotgun]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Shotgun eredeti hozzászólása:

Still beats being a PvE-farming carebear.

Why do you always need the security blanket? Either its hiding behind the ruleset in HS or hiding behind a cloak.
What makes you so risk averse?

You're really reaching for straws.

I'm not responsible for the aggression rules in high-sec. But that's where most players live, and therefore where most targets are.

And as far as cloaking goes? Well, it has nothing to do with risk. Without cloaks, it would be a requirement to keep repositioning your ship without stopping, which is obviously exhausting, and imbalanced. If you can go AFK after getting aggro and launching your drones, surely I should be allowed to occasionally go AFK while watching you do it.

[Shotgun]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Most players live in HS? I'm not sure thats right but it matters not.

About 75% of the population according to CCP's statistics. Here's the most recent graph:

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/optimized/3X/5/3/5302b5d5cc597ab0202faa4eb82564fdec981ac8_2_690x496.png

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Tell me something. Is your HS ganker in a corps which can be war decked?

Most of the time yes (depends on if a citadel is needed to stage). But since gankers are -10 anyway, it hardly matters - they can be shot by anyone, at any time.

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

So the reason you need a cloak is so you can hide in safety and not get agro and grief?
Yet you look down on null sec miners who can be agro'd at any time and they do that for hour after hour. Without the safety blanket of cloaking.

No, the reason a cloak is needed is so that it's not a requirement to look at the screen without taking your eyes off of it from downtime to downtime. Residents are able to dock and tether, which aren't options available to a raiding party. Did you even ever play this game? It sounds like you don't know any game mechanics whatsoever.

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Well heres an idea. How about a couple of months with no stealth?
Lets level the playing field for a bit shall we?

How about a couple of months of bringing bounties and mining yields to high-sec levels? If you want the safety of high-sec in null-sec, then you'll have to settle for high-sec levels of income, too.

[ZynXao]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

...

just because I'm curious, where do you live? hs, ls, null? and in what space do you operate most of your time? be it pve or pvp.

with eve offering so many different ways of playing the game, pretty much every capsuleer has a different view on different mechanics.

[Shotgun]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

I guess where I was coming from regarding suicide ganking is that just because the game allows something doesn't mean it's socially acceptable and that the person getting ganked has to be an emotionless robot.

I could take my Skiff right beside a noob in a venture and suck every rock dry that he's mining just to tick him off and get to him mentally and keep following him around. Does the game allow me to do that? Yes. Would I be an posterior perforation? Definitely.

I mean, you'd be acting like pretty much any ordinary miner if you did that. You think those people are concerned with whose rock they mine? They aren't. The game is only "unfair" when someone is doing something to them, and not the other way around.

Once you realize that the average carebear behaves like a locust, all of the guilt from killing them goes away completely. They're prey animals, nothing more. They will mindlessly graze and consume resources around them, and when one of them gets caught by a predator, it will bray and scream on the forums like a dying antelope.

You shouldn't feel guilty about consuming these creatures, just like you shouldn't feel sad or angry when another predator outplays you and you become their meal. That's the natural environment of EVE. Your only concern should be making it to the top of the food chain, and the only way you're going to accomplish that is by being more self-conscious and logical than everyone else.

ZynXao eredeti hozzászólása:

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

...

just because I'm curious, where do you live? hs, ls, null? and in what space do you operate most of your time? be it pve or pvp.

with eve offering so many different ways of playing the game, pretty much every capsuleer has a different view on different mechanics.

By his own admission from other threads (just in case he changes his narrative), he was a null-sec miner who (permanently) quit the game after CCP (temporarily) implemented blackout.

And now he spends his time on the Steam EVE forums (that no one even reads) arguing in favor of risk-free PvE farming without understanding what it would do to the game's economy.

[Shotgun]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

3) I was primarily in null to just do data sites with a ship that was orders of magnitude better than a cov ops frigate. T3C are the only ships in the game that can warp cloaked and have interdiction nullification so why would I pay for an additional alt account to have a more vulnerable cov ops ship scout ahead and get it blown up by smart gankers at a gate camp when a cov ops nullified interdiction ship would have sailed through smoothly?

This is an assumption you're making. Just because it's interdiction-nullified doesn't mean that you wouldn't be caught at some point, unless you also have a sub-1s align time on that thing. One day you'll jump into a gate camp that has 100 people wioth drones out around it, or get really unlucky and emerge within decloak distance of a ship or object, or a good interceptor pilot will decloak you manually before you can warp, and then you're dead.

You might get through safely 99 out of 100 times, but that 1 time is all it takes.

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

5) criticism is usually better when it's constructive. Telling me my fitting skills are crap and no good when I've seen similar fits on other similar ships is kind of crass. If I changed anything on that fit, my damage dps would have dropped and I would have just built a ship that could tank longer but still eventually get killed if I got gang ganked.

Thin-skinners don't make it far in this game. Probably the best thing you can do in this situation is to just admit an "oopsie" or at least burn the other person back somehow instead of getting outraged. Just saying.

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

So how would you have done it Mr Expert?

A second account is a requirement if you want to do any high-end stuff solo outside of high-sec. One of the worst things you can do in this game is jump into a system you haven't scouted. If you refuse to get an alt, then you're artificially handicapping yourself in a very extreme manner, which is your choice of course, but don't come complaining when things can and do go wrong.

A properly-fitted PvP legion might've actually been able to win that fight. Low odds (<10% chance), but maybe. If you had an alt, you could've covered the most logical in-gate with it to get advanced warning on backup. Then you could've put out a feeler for a log-off trap by seeing if the Nereus was willing to allow you to attack it anywhere, or just in a specific spot. If it's the latter, then the log-offski is very obvious. If not, then you could expect backup to arrive from a gate, in which case you could scout gates until you found them (the most likely gate would be closest to the spot where the bait allows you to attack it, in order to shorten the warp time as much as possible).

You, however, just went in blind and attacked it. The issue wasn't that you attacked, but that you attacked without a plan.

[ZynXao]

remember your anathema getting decloaked and caught on a gate? just so you know, this can also happen to a nulli t3c. your chances are good that you make it out, but it is possible to catch you. especially with that long align time.

for pure scanning I personally would have gone with something like an astero. you can get it to sub 2sec align and its a pretty fast ship for the mwd+cloak thing in case you jump into a bubble. and of course it would be a way cheaper loss.

edit: you can also always go for the scanning interceptor. yes, it doesnt have any scan or hack bonus but if you know what you are doing you should still be good. yes, you would have to ping somewhere as you cant cloak while scanning but will be very hard to catch.

[ZynXao]

correct. they would have to burn for you. lets say they just sit on gate and see the gate fire as you jump in. you are most like around 20km away max. a frigate with mwd on will burn to you in literally a second or two. now whats your align time? if I simulate your fit with my skills its 8.41, so 9 seconds... scary stuff mate. just so you know, its a thin line ;) and just one inertial stab will bring your align time down to 7 seconds. a full 'travel' set of 3 down to 5 seconds.

edit before shotgun schools you xD: why do you want to do damage when your mission was to run hacking sites? a fast align might be more helpfull, no? and as your damage would be low, maybe some neuts to suck anything dry that tries to scram you so you can just warp. just an idea

[ZynXao]

so you're saying that fitting for a specific purpose makes more sense than mixing it? great. thats exactly the point. my guess is that shotgun wanted you to figure that out by yourself, which you did. next step would be to put that knowledge to work. while you are right that you can haze a target that you choose (hopefully wisely) in that fit you can get in trouble once you become the target. mobile depots are a thing in case you want to refit on the fly. maybe take another ewar mod with you which you could swap to. or inertial stabs that you can switch to when traveling and scanning. just some thoughts ;)

and yeah, figuring your ingame wasnt that hard and tbh doesnt make a difference at all. I personally was just curious about the guys you fought and what you were flying.

[Shotgun]

I was away for a few hours for meetings and come back to...this.

Here's the chat log of me "having my sources":

TheMarcosianOne > you looked me up on the killboard, didnt you?
Shotgun > yes
TheMarcosianOne > :)
Shotgun > I am quite good at intel gathering since I spent years doing wars and such

Literally just me answering his question by providing background info for context on what enabled me to find the relevant information. Yes, the "Shadow Network" is feeding me everyone's "biometric markers" because I am the "Illuminatus-General"...obviously.

Welp, I wanted to help, but I'm not dealing with this. I'm not sad or angry - I just don't care. There's two others I'm helping too, and even after just five minutes we were already joking and ribbing each other. Not going to waste my time trying to appease a Karen. I've done that in the past, and got stabbed in the back every single time.

[Sadpan]

y u heff to be mad? is only gaem