lol@plex, plex is wayyy to cheap and ruins economy

[Hanuman]

So I figured I would get omega but not buy plex, since it ruins the game. I got a BPC for couple hundred k for a Naga (10%/20%/10 runs I think, nice copy), strapped into my Retriever and just started mining...and mining...and mining...took an entire game day of about 15-20 hours and a pint of vodka for the night time hours and that was only the high sec ore, the low sec ore I bought for 15 million because I didn't want to use a venture to keep dipping into low sec hoping not to get shot down, to mine another 15 mil in ore.

So I built the Naga and sold it for 110 million, rather quickly. This is about 40 plex or $2US (LOL), for 20 hours of work. Because we should see mining as work in Eve. I have no idea why ore prices are what they are unless the devs inject ore into the game to keep prices relatively low.

CCP charges way to little for Plex. If people want to cheat and not "work" inside Eve to make money, but instead pull out the credit card to buy that battlecruiser, well then make them pay for it imo. I think plex should be priced much higher so that people who want to do more medial tasks in eve, can actually really benefit.

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

Dream Master eredeti hozzászólása:

only reason ore prices have always been so low is because CCP adds ore to the market when needed. They don't even try to hide this, that's why there is npc's mining, almost ironically everywhere you turn. Whole fleets of NPCs, clearing out whole belts.

In The Forge (around Jita), there are zero NPC sell orders for minerals.
Those NPC miners remove ore from the market.

It also makes the economy more realistic (relatively). Why shouldn't the Empires mine their own resources?

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

I wouldn't call what's going on in this game an "economy".

Stuff gets created out of thin air. PvE sites, data/relic sites, asteroid belts, sleeper ships, etc. The mechanics of this that makes the most sense is the asteroids that come in from space because the universe is a big place.

You're right.
This is where actual economics has to take a backseat to gameplay (rewards); but the player still has to procure the items.

The economy in EVE isn't meant to be fully realistic, anyway.
A real economy doesn't have infinite cash flowing into it (CCP counterbalances this with ISK sinks).

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

Ez a megjegyzés automatikus tartalom-ellenőrző rendszerünk elemzésére vár. Ideiglenesen rejtett lesz, amíg megerősítjük, hogy nincs benne kártékony tartalom (pl. hivatkozások olyan weboldalakra, amik információt próbálnak lopni).

[Shotgun]

Ez a megjegyzés automatikus tartalom-ellenőrző rendszerünk elemzésére vár. Ideiglenesen rejtett lesz, amíg megerősítjük, hogy nincs benne kártékony tartalom (pl. hivatkozások olyan weboldalakra, amik információt próbálnak lopni).

[Hanuman]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

Shinta215 eredeti hozzászólása:

In The Forge (around Jita), there are zero NPC sell orders for minerals.
Those NPC miners remove ore from the market.

It also makes the economy more realistic (relatively). Why shouldn't the Empires mine their own resources?

For a game like this, I say start from the bottom, make resources replenish at a random unpredictable rate. Don't let NPCs pay out money to players unless it's collected from a finite amount of galactic citizens that aren't necessarily Capsuleers. After all, government needs money to function.

Ships and components should be manufactured by skilled labor, not just anyone who can mine a recipe of ores and train a couple levels of industry. There is a disconnect that exists because no one cares who sells the ship you want to gank with and the person buying the ship, chances are will gank the person who sold it to him without even knowing. :)

Specialized careers and trades would draw more attention and detail to market forces and "experts" who contribute to it and give the players a sense of balance and control.

Right now, you have a situation where a whole category of players either want all that and in the other corner, a bunch of players that just want pvp "tools" to do the pvp thing and don't care what it does to the local economy. Let the players vote with their ISK and travel habits instead of differing philosophies of players denigrating each other and pulling on daddy's pant leg to do something. Let the market work and see this game improve.

I agree 100%.

I personally have no real interest in Eve pvp. I would love to just purely play as a skilled industrialist, even if its not the way to most isk. Its seems pretty easy to gather all the skills to even build some t2 ships, certainly t2 modules. I am maybe on month 3-4 and am now already getting into t2 blueprint discoveries and building some basic t2 stuff. Feels really fast. I wish there was a connection with doing certain missions and getting rare(r) BPC or any other way than just find the npc who sells the item and go spend 750 million isk in local market (a formula I need for a pre-cursor for seal BPO).

I am hoping there is a level of production i just don't know about yet. Maybe people involved with building citadels etc are highly specifically skilled. Maybe sort of like people who can haul in jump freighters. Maybe this is a problem of not having to choose a "class" at the start of the game. Eventually you learn most of the stuff in game since you can constantly skill into whatever you want, especially since your character improves whether you are playing or not (as long as your paying I guess).

I wish certain higher quality ships/modules/structures would carry a corp maker's mark (have name of producing corp listed on ship info tab or something). This creates more nuance for the industrialist and also for the customer (avoid buying from certain people or corps etc). I enjoy the "build your own ships" strategy, I would love flying my own stuff, truly knowing it was labeled as such.

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

Having hands in too deep into the economy is not what I had in mind. That's kind of the Keynesian approach.

Nor I, but that's what people currently think CCP is doing.

TheMarcosianOne eredeti hozzászólása:

Price fixing and some regulation is a good thing, but not if it messed with the markets choosing the best prices and rewarding the best behaviors.

Not price fixing, that's actually messing with the organic flow of the markets (and is illegal in some countries).
Regulators in the real world institute tariffs to protect domestic producers from cheap imports driving the cost down (below what local producers can realistically produce said product for).
Regulators carefully monitor monopolies (or just don't allow them) to protect from one organization controlling the price of a certain product.

[Hanuman]

You guys should try out OpenTTD on Steam. Its a cool economy sim that was first made on PC in 1994 I think. Its been all open-source so the product is super polished and tons of addons (upgraded graphics mod). I think both you guys will like it, and its free on Steam.

[.?]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Shinta215 eredeti hozzászólása:

What does buying SKINs, apparel, and pilot services have to do with in-game currency?

I would also argue that they're not "nerfing" income.
I just started to run T3 missions again and CCP has changed them recently (I don't remember there being that many battlecruisers before), thus increasing the income from them.

Because my understanding is that CCP have managed to double the price of ships because of the recent changes they have made.
Except of course for the low end noob ships.
This means that where before buying something like an orca cost around 800k fully fitted. Now its double that without the fit.
People will start to struggle to find that kind of money as they eat into their savings so will be tempted to buy PLEX they can then sell.
And if you think people are going to risk something like a Rorq then forget it. The only people who will be using them will be the mega corps behind their firewall protection.

Keep in mind the increase in ship cost are most likely due to the new components that have been added to ship construction, I see people charging ridiculous amounts for those new parts. Once more people start producing those components ships prices should in theory fall, no?

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

Because my understanding is that CCP have managed to double the price of ships because of the recent changes they have made.

See:

Harry Potter and the gas chamber eredeti hozzászólása:

Keep in mind the increase in ship cost are most likely due to the new components that have been added to ship construction, I see people charging ridiculous amounts for those new parts.

david.hardie eredeti hozzászólása:

People will start to struggle to find that kind of money as they eat into their savings so will be tempted to buy PLEX they can then sell.

Been there, done that; and I can honestly say that anyone who buys PLEX to sell to buy a ship (which can go boom) or operating capital (which can be scammed out of you), is not thinking straight (myself included). Anyone who continues to do so should seek professional help.
I only buy PLEX now to purchase something from the New Eden Store or change it to ISK to buy something secure off the in-game market (like a SKIN or apparel).

Harry Potter and the gas chamber eredeti hozzászólása:

Keep in mind the increase in ship cost are most likely due to the new components that have been added to ship construction, I see people charging ridiculous amounts for those new parts. Once more people start producing those components ships prices should in theory fall, no?

Correct. Increased competition will lead to more competitive prices.
Blueprints also take time to research to lower the time and material investment in manufacturing.
Problem will be if the industrialists are up to the added risk (read: gameplay) for the added reward. Judging from what I've read on this forum, most aren't (although some are).

[Arioch]

1 plex used to be worth 20 bucks or 30 days and it's price would fluctuate between 600mil and a few billion. it was a better system for sure. they did a lot to screw up the economy since citadel, that's why they ended up having to go free to play.

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

AS_imryyr eredeti hozzászólása:

1 plex used to be worth 20 bucks or 30 days and it's price would fluctuate between 600mil and a few billion. it was a better system for sure. they did a lot to screw up the economy since citadel, that's why they ended up having to go free to play.

So PLEX hasn't changed, then.

1 old PLEX = 500 new PLEX.
Still costs about $20, still buys one month of Omega, cost about 1.2 billion ISK currently.

[†Yawgmoth†]

some stuff could be fixed if there were npc trade stations where u could buy/ sell ur stuff for a normal price instead of having to bend to isk sharks and scammers, if u want/ need fast isk. prices of those stations could also be influenced up to a certain range depending. meaning, for example if a certain station is flooded with veldspar, buy and sell price for it will drop and a seller would have to visit another station to get a better price.
same for ships, some ship prices have risen to insane heights...having a npc based factory to get standard ships would be nice.
for the big players producing standard ships isnt profitable anyway (probably also one of the reasons prices have risen?)

[Shotgun]

†Yawgmoth† eredeti hozzászólása:

some stuff could be fixed if there were npc trade stations where u could buy/ sell ur stuff for a normal price instead of having to bend to isk sharks and scammers, if u want/ need fast isk. prices of those stations could also be influenced up to a certain range depending. meaning, for example if a certain station is flooded with veldspar, buy and sell price for it will drop and a seller would have to visit another station to get a better price.
same for ships, some ship prices have risen to insane heights...having a npc based factory to get standard ships would be nice.
for the big players producing standard ships isnt profitable anyway (probably also one of the reasons prices have risen?)

So you want EVE's player-driven economy, which is EVE's primary feature, to not be player-driven anymore?

[[SG] I-401]

†Yawgmoth† eredeti hozzászólása:

some stuff could be fixed if there were npc trade stations where u could buy/ sell ur stuff for a normal price instead of having to bend to isk sharks and scammers, if u want/ need fast isk. prices of those stations could also be influenced up to a certain range depending. meaning, for example if a certain station is flooded with veldspar, buy and sell price for it will drop and a seller would have to visit another station to get a better price.
same for ships, some ship prices have risen to insane heights...having a npc based factory to get standard ships would be nice.
for the big players producing standard ships isnt profitable anyway (probably also one of the reasons prices have risen?)

Producing normal ships is massively profitable. Since the scarcity changes you make a nice profit from it. 10-20mil from a Ferox, 3 mil from a Caracal. It is awesome.

[Hijal]

20 hours for 110 mill thats like.. 5.5 million isk a hour thats just terrible. I made a lot more than that back when I used to still play no wonder people are leaving in the droves... granted some of that is prolly alts much of the PCU are just someones alt. Doesn't make things any better though -- remove highsec next CCP. I've been waiting years for this. >) Start clearing out those desks though save yourself some time.