lol@plex, plex is wayyy to cheap and ruins economy

[Hanuman]

So I figured I would get omega but not buy plex, since it ruins the game. I got a BPC for couple hundred k for a Naga (10%/20%/10 runs I think, nice copy), strapped into my Retriever and just started mining...and mining...and mining...took an entire game day of about 15-20 hours and a pint of vodka for the night time hours and that was only the high sec ore, the low sec ore I bought for 15 million because I didn't want to use a venture to keep dipping into low sec hoping not to get shot down, to mine another 15 mil in ore.

So I built the Naga and sold it for 110 million, rather quickly. This is about 40 plex or $2US (LOL), for 20 hours of work. Because we should see mining as work in Eve. I have no idea why ore prices are what they are unless the devs inject ore into the game to keep prices relatively low.

CCP charges way to little for Plex. If people want to cheat and not "work" inside Eve to make money, but instead pull out the credit card to buy that battlecruiser, well then make them pay for it imo. I think plex should be priced much higher so that people who want to do more medial tasks in eve, can actually really benefit.

[Pepper Pimienta]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

So I figured I would get omega but not buy plex, since it ruins the game. I got a BPC for couple hundred k for a Naga (10%/20%/10 runs I think, nice copy), strapped into my Retriever and just started mining...and mining...and mining...took an entire game day of about 15-20 hours and a pint of vodka for the night time hours and that was only the high sec ore, the low sec ore I bought for 15 million because I didn't want to use a venture to keep dipping into low sec hoping not to get shot down, to mine another 15 mil in ore.

So I built the Naga and sold it for 110 million, rather quickly. This is about 40 plex or $2US (LOL), for 20 hours of work. Because we should see mining as work in Eve. I have no idea why ore prices are what they are unless the devs inject ore into the game to keep prices relatively low.

CCP charges way to little for Plex. If people want to cheat and not "work" inside Eve to make money, but instead pull out the credit card to buy that battlecruiser, well then make them pay for it imo. I think plex should be priced much higher so that people who want to do more medial tasks in eve, can actually really benefit.

That is only your opinion and honestly not everyone is rich enough to pay a bunch of money for plex you need to think about people that are poor your talking like the whole world is rich when it is not and honestly there is also people that work in real life that can't spend hours in game to farm ore for the isk to buy plex to get omega just because you have a bunch of free time does not mean everyone does so in regards plex is perfectly fine at its current prices because not everyone can spend hours and days mining ore or what not to get omega that way. Plus Plex is already expensive as is for those with poor incomes that are disabled like legit and can't work because there in a wheelchair or something. Put it Simple Not everyone has the damn time to farm ore for isk.

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

I have no idea why ore prices are what they are unless the devs inject ore into the game to keep prices relatively low.

Because there are literally tens of thousands of players in the game who are grinding low-effort, low-reward PvE content (e.g. high-sec mining) because they want to have as little risk and excitement in their gameplay as possible.

If you think that ore prices are too low, maybe you should find an activity that has better pay. Remember, if you want more reward, you'll need to take on more risk, too. There are activities that pay upwards of half a billion ISK per hour.

Originally posted by Dream Master:

CCP charges way to little for Plex. If people want to cheat and not "work" inside Eve to make money, but instead pull out the credit card to buy that battleship, well then make them pay for it imo. I think plex should be priced much higher so that people who want to do more medial tasks in eve, can actually really benefit.

A month of PLEX costs a similar (slightly higher, for a convenience premium) amount of money to a month of game time. If it costs more, then no one would bother with it, since players wouldn't be able to afford it from an ISK perspective.

Also, I'm not entirely sure you understand the economy of PLEX based on your post, or at least maybe you didn't word it properly. People buy PLEX from the EVE store, and sell it to other players in-game for ISK. The invisible economic forces of the game have determined that 500 PLEX (1 month of time) is worth about 1.25 billion ISK. Whether you're mining for 10 million ISK per hour or running wormhole sites for 500 million ISK per hour, that's what a month of PLEX will cost you as a player who wants to use ISK to subscribe. If CCP doubled the real-life cost of PLEX, then that increase would translate to a similar increase in the in-game ISK cost of PLEX.

You're making it seem like if CCP increased the real-life cost of PLEX, then PLEX sellers would get less benefit from converting $ to PLEX, but that's not the case because the market cost of PLEX is player-driven, and wouldn't necessarily stay at its current level.

[Hanuman]

yea thats true i guess. Maybe mining without orca is crap. The mining bonus is nice.

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

yea thats true i guess. Maybe mining without orca is crap. The mining bonus is nice.

My sincere advice is to avoid mining entirely. Unless you're doing it with a few characters and optimizing everything to be as efficient as possible, it's just not worthwhile. You can make much more with a single character by focusing on combat PvE (e.g. wormhole sites, abyssal sites, null-sec ratting, avoid missions unless you have a dedicated mission character though, as they ruin your empire standings).

Or trade on the market. There's no income ceiling to trading - your income will scale up with how well you're able to find arbitrage opportunities, that is to say with your intelligence. Most people aren't very smart, so they mine. You don't sound stupid - you seem to understand that it's silly to work for the equivalent of $0.30 an hour - so you're already ahead of the curve.

And as an extra bonus, combat PvE skills overlap with transportation skills (navigation, shields, armor all help make your hauler more survivable). Just remember that suicide-ganking is a thing in high-sec, so don't carry too much in a thin ship (good rule of thumb is that you can usually carry 50M ISK worth of stuff for every 10,000 EHP you have, but stay on the safe side).

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by david.hardie:

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Because there are literally tens of thousands of players in the game who are grinding low-effort, low-reward PvE content (e.g. high-sec mining) because they want to have as little risk and excitement in their gameplay as possible.

Says the guy who plays as a cloaky camper and ganker in high sec.
Risk? You wouldnt know what it means.

My risk comes from other players, just like the risk I present to others, as a player. If other players are too lazy and/or scared to create risk for me, I will benefit from it. The only difference is that unlike the carebears, I won't stop, give up, and complain when other players create risk for me. But they won't.

See, you're a little mixed up; in your mind, you think that PvPers criticize non-PvPers for trying to avoid risk. On the contrary, avoiding risk is a very normal, rational thing to do for everyone. What separates us from them, however, is that we calculate risk into our cost of doing business, and don't complain about it. Meanwhile, all that your camp does is complain and beg the developers for increased safety features, because none of you have any spine.

[Pepper Pimienta]

Originally posted by david.hardie:

Originally posted by Shotgun:

My risk comes from other players, just like the risk I present to others, as a player. If other players are too lazy and/or scared to create risk for me, I will benefit from it. The only difference is that unlike the carebears, I won't stop, give up, and complain when other players create risk for me. But they won't.

See, you're a little mixed up; in your mind, you think that PvPers criticize non-PvPers for trying to avoid risk. On the contrary, avoiding risk is a very normal, rational thing to do for everyone. What separates us from them, however, is that we calculate risk into our cost of doing business, and don't complain about it. Meanwhile, all that your camp does is complain and beg the developers for increased safety features, because none of you have any spine. :B1:

No. What you do is minimise risk to yourself. I dont think I have ever met a player who is so risk averse as you.
After ALL these years playing you are still in high sec ganking noobs and unarmed freighters while hiding behind the safety blanket of stealth.
Do please enlighten us all as to how other players would create risk for you when you are cloaked?
And of course being cloaked you are able to decide which battles you will engage in (easy wins) or which battles you will avoid/run away from while all the time denigrating other people for playing the game they want to and taking far more risk doing so than you do.

You are the ultimate carebear. The guy who fears actually engaging in real PvP.
If you enjoy PvP so much why are you not in null or wormhole?
Oh yeah its because in there you would get ganked.
Spine? Players in null have plenty of it.
High sec gankers? Not so much.

Personally I agree with some points you make here People in high sec that gate camp and gank miners and stuff with no real PVP Experience Is kinda bs because in that regard the ones being ganked are taking higher risk then the ones ganking them because the Unarmed frieghters or miners with low combat capabilities end up losing millions of Isk do to being unable to properly defend themselves against high sec Gankers I do not agree with Hi sec Gankers picking on noobs and people that can't defend themselves and before any of the Hi Sec Gankers try and call me a care bear I do a lot of null sec and Low Sec and wormhole stuff and that is where PVP should be primarly focused not in hi sec against those that can't even defend themselves or don't even know how to fight specially noobs Just as much as It sickens me seeing scammers scam noobs that know no better. As you said Real PVP is in Null Sec,Low Sec, and Wormholes that is where Real PVP is Not the Hi Sec Gankers picking on noobs and people with no PVP experience in Hi Sec.

Most Hi Sec Gate Camper and Gankers Wouldn't last very long out in Null,Low, or wormhole space. Just thought I add this on there as well.

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by david.hardie:

No. What you do is minimise risk to yourself. I dont think I have ever met a player who is so risk averse as you.
After ALL these years playing you are still in high sec ganking noobs and unarmed freighters while hiding behind the safety blanket of stealth.
Do please enlighten us all as to how other players would create risk for you when you are cloaked?
And of course being cloaked you are able to decide which battles you will engage in (easy wins) or which battles you will avoid/run away from while all the time denigrating other people for playing the game they want to and taking far more risk doing so than you do.

You are the ultimate carebear. The guy who fears actually engaging in real PvP.
If you enjoy PvP so much why are you not in null or wormhole?
Oh yeah its because in there you would get ganked.
Spine? Players in null have plenty of it.
High sec gankers? Not so much.

My man, why would I be cloaking in high-sec? What would that possibly accomplish? And if I'm not cloaking in high-sec but elsewhere, then why would you accuse me of not being in those other places in the same post? I swear, you type up some stuff sometimes, and it makes it seem like you've never actually played the game before, and are only making inferences about it based on bits of information you've pulled from Reddit threads and PC Gamer magazine articles.

Now, as to your question about how players would create risk for me if I were cloaked: how about baiting or trapping me? Which, by the way, is exactly what players who aren't whiny crybabies like you do, and in fact they're sometimes quite successful. You know, putting out an enticing target, which is actually set up for tackling and surviving long enough for the fleet to arrive? It's a valid tactic that actually works.

Same for countering ganking. There's actually a very vibrant anti-ganking community in the game, and they run daily operations to patrol and protect players from ganking. In fact, their leader is an acquaintance of mine. Not, once again, something that you could relate to, because you have no idea about these things since you've never engaged in any of these forms of gameplay from either perspective. All you've ever done is complain on the forums about how you got griefed this, or CCP took away your income that. It's actually kind of pitiful, really. I don't know how you're able to deal with having so little self-respect as a person, though your ability to mentally block out the public's perception of you as an embarrassingly cringe-inducing coward is an achievement in itself.

I understand that these concepts are difficult for you to grasp, since all of your PvP "knowledge" came from news articles about big battles. You've already admitted on these forums that you never fought anyone else even once, and did nothing but grind out ore in a deadbeat null-sec rental system. But see, when you talk about stuff like this, and accuse others of doing or not doing certain things, having experience is important because of the crucial perspective it provides.

Originally posted by Star Dust Moonasaku:

I do not agree with Hi sec Gankers picking on noobs and people that can't defend themselves and before any of the Hi Sec Gankers try and call me a care bear I do a lot of null sec and Low Sec and wormhole stuff and that is where PVP should be primarly focused not in hi sec against those that can't even defend themselves or don't even know how to fight specially noobs Just as much as It sickens me seeing scammers scam noobs that know no better.

If you define a "noob" as someone flying a loaded freighter, then you're vastly misconstruing the term. Actual "noobs" and players who are wealthy enough to be gank targets are two populations that rarely overlap. Perhaps you should explore the kill board to see who gankers are actually killing, instead of merely throwing around conjecture about the matter.

Also, and this isn't an attack, but can you use some reasonable punctuation when you write stuff? Your post was very difficult to read.

[Hanuman]

I don't even really understand why people who play Eve are so obsessed with the pvp. The mechanics of pvp in eve are quite simplistic to almost any other mmo. You catch me, I either run away or try to fight, if I run, you use some mod to try to prevent me from running, if I fight, whoever has the best gear wins. I dare to bet real money on the fact that if you took someone in top 10% of pvp ranks and put them in a rifter and put me, a pvp moron who has only played 3 months, in a Wolf with t2 gear, knowing how to use certain mods...I will win, I could probably play with one hand and win. Eve pvp mechanics are quite simplistic. If you tell me I love Eve for the trade mechanics, the player base, the industry with its hundreds of formulas and blueprints, even the cool planetary interactions...I totally get it...but to hear people talk Eve pvp all day, I just don't see the attraction. I get ganked a lot mining and transporting my crap in t1 haulers, but I don't really blame the gankers because pvp wise there isn't that much excitement compared to most other mmos.

Tbh...if you are 1) good at pvp 2) have very nice pvp type ships...you are crazy not to gank people like me, its easy income. How is killing new players at gates while they are hauling their gear any better or worse ethically from preventing new players from exploring null.

I have been wanting to do sansha nation missions for a week now...I can't get anything but myself in a ship to the horrid place, im just trying to use an Iteron Mark V (5x cargo expanders ftw) with a couple of Breachers, a venture, and some basic crap in it, 20 jumps into null to experience some missions...and the same idiots prevent me from just getting to the station because day think they own that part of null. I understand that thats why its null...but dont lecture people that somehow you are better than a gate camper.



What does hurt is when you are mining in your retriever in hi sec to build another ship and some moron in a battleship that only cost him $1US to buy with plex blows you out of the sky.

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

if I fight, whoever has the best gear wins.

Nope. The argument breaks down at this point.

The winner will generally be the person who manages intelligence better, and is more prepared for the confrontation. Your argument only holds true for apples-to-apples cases where asymmetry isn't involved, which in EVE is an exceptionally rare occurrence. Most fights are decided before anyone even undocks.

Originally posted by Dream Master:

I dare to bet real money on the fact that if you took someone in top 10% of pvp ranks and put them in a rifter and put me, a pvp moron who has only played 3 months, in a Wolf with t2 gear, knowing how to use certain mods...I will win, I could probably play with one hand and win.

How much? I'm interested in taking you up on this offer.

Originally posted by Dream Master:

Eve pvp mechanics are quite simplistic. If you tell me I love Eve for the trade mechanics, the player base, the industry with its hundreds of formulas and blueprints, even the cool planetary interactions...I totally get it...but to hear people talk Eve pvp all day, I just don't see the attraction.

Have you actually experienced it, though?

Originally posted by Dream Master:

What does hurt is when you are mining in your retriever in hi sec to build another ship and some moron in a battleship that only cost him $1US to buy with plex blows you out of the sky.

So then use a Procurer and put a buffer on it.

Originally posted by Dream Master:

I have been wanting to do sansha nation missions for a week now...I can't get anything but myself in a ship to the horrid place, im just trying to use an Iteron Mark V (5x cargo expanders ftw) with a couple of Breachers, a venture, and some basic crap in it, 20 jumps into null to experience some missions...and the same idiots prevent me from just getting to the station because day think they own that part of null. I understand that thats why its null...but dont lecture people that somehow you are better than a gate camper.

Dude, you need to realize that you're literally invading someone's private, defended space when you do this. They're completely entitled to defend their homes, because they fought to earn them.

[Hanuman]

I love how Eve seems to attract somewhat more intelligent people...its about space and all I suppose...But there is nothing so exhausting as being around a bunch of smart people, who know they are smart and feel a constant need to one-up everyone else. Every comment, every statement becomes a debate or argument. Reminds me of my high school chess club...same crowd...lol, hubris.

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Dude, you need to realize that you're literally invading someone's private, defended space when you do this. They're completely entitled to defend their homes, because they fought to earn them.

Sir, it appears you haven gotten lost a bit in this imaginary world. As though it swallowed you whole...My point was merely that I think PLEX should either not be available at all or more expensive, and CCP can't be surprised that this game never expanded beyond even a fraction of other MMOs population levels (Blackrock server *alone*, one of many servers, did 20k+ in classic, with 3-4 hour wait times on login. Please don't make it a wow-eve thing, just using numbers as an example). New players get bored of hi sec and don't have 25+ hours a week of game time to earn isk the honest way so they end up buying plex, losing ships and hence real money, to then lose interest in the game entirely and just walk away. Soon all "long haulers" like you will own all of null and low sec, because there won't be any more new people logging in to play to even care about it. And the ones that do care will most likely play the portable version of Eve on their telephonic devices. I understand CCP will never lose people like you Shotgun, you reside in this world and will probably go down with the ship, and good on you. I just have a new player perspective, thats all.

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

Soon all "long haulers" like you will own all of null and low sec, because there won't be any more new people logging in to play to even care about it. And the ones that do care will most likely play the portable version of Eve on their telephonic devices. I understand CCP will never lose people like you Shotgun, you reside in this world and will probably go down with the ship, and good on you. I just have a new player perspective, thats all.

You realize this game has existed since 2003, right? So saying "soon this or that will happen" ignores nearly two decades of the game operating in a very consistent manner. Null-sec has been fully conquered by June of that year, just a month after release. And people have been saying that EVE is dying, or that all the new players will quit leaving only the vets to wallow in their own misery, since the beginning as well. And yet here we are, in the year 2021, and the game is still fine. If you think that "all the new players are leaving," take a look at the bottom table here:

https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Look, I've given you some genuine, sincere advice. It has nothing to do with wanting to one-up or out-argue you - I'm just trying to save you some growing pains, and let you reach higher levels of gameplay sooner. But you're choosing to ignore it and stick to your perceptions, likely because doing so is a sense of comfort for you, and lets you avoid having to deal with the realization that you're still inexperienced, don't have all the answers, and are making mistakes.

If you aren't enjoying the game, you shouldn't force yourself to play it. We get people like you in here all the time; people who come in with certain viewpoints, and when those viewpoints are shaken, they get defensive. In fact, we just had a person who kept making mistakes and misunderstanding aspects of the game, and when people, including me, tried to help him, he lashed out. I believe he's playing Farming Simulator now. So you have options. But do understand that EVE's success stories are composed of players like me, and not of players who have been playing a few weeks or a handful of months, and think they've got everything figured out. It took me five or six years to figure it out for myself.

Of course you have the right to play any way you wish, and to believe anything you want. But if you actually stick around for a long time, you'll realize that you were being silly, and that I was right. I guarantee it.

PS: let me know when you want to have that duel.

[Hanuman]

Originally posted by Shotgun:

PS: let me know when you want to have that duel.

I'm learning to fly a Rook, it's Eve...see you in 49d11h44s ;)

[Shotgun]

Originally posted by Dream Master:

Originally posted by Shotgun:

PS: let me know when you want to have that duel.

I'm learning to fly a Rook, it's Eve...see you in 49d11h44s ;)

In that case let me save you the trouble by telling you that it's one of the least useful ships in the game right now. ECM boats are only currently viable for small-to-medium-size PvP engagements, and even then, the grand majority of the time you'll be asked to bring something else (like a Drake or a Caracal, if you're limited to Caldari ships). And if you're either a solo player, or are planning to take part in massive null-sec fleet warfare, that line of ships is entirely useless to you.

Why are you training for a Rook? Genuinely curious.

[ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ]

Originally posted by Shotgun:

Why are you training for a Rook? Genuinely curious.

I would speculate wormhole or Pochven, given the invisibility to D-scan.

[Hanuman]

Yea, I remember a couple weeks ago a Rook descended upon me while I was mining, I had been spamming dscan to update the hilarious ship names other miners were giving their ships, all just messing around...then Rook there, out of nowhere....to new player seemed like Willy Wonka ♥♥♥♥ so I've wanted it ever since. pvp wise, I am mainly wanting to learn how to gank/gate camp/grief and Rook seemed like a decent choice, but i know very little. I learned to fully t2 fit a manticore but a different guy said it was crap.