Alpha TOO restrictive

[Thradar]

Now that I have a few days and the weekend to play as well as be in a 250 member corp, I've come to the conclusion that Alpha (F2P) is too restrictive for any long (or even medium) timeframe of playing the game. I'm already topped out on ships I can fly, and though it will take awhile to get all the skills available to Alpha, that will hit a brick wall too.

This will limit everything you do: earning ISK, agent mission progression will hit a wall, corp activities will eventually revert back to not helping newbrows and doing faction wars, PVP, making billions of ISK.

It just feel too restrictive right now, almost like CCP is beating me over the head to convert to Omega. Like "Upgrade, or you might as well just quit now because you're going to hit a wall very soon."

[Eftwyrd]

the character in question is gallente, i have thrashers, hounds, manticores, falcons etc. etc. in the hangar but never trained past gallente frigate 3, i know why the T2s arent available but the thrashers? they are t1 ships with t1 sebos and t1 weapons and i cant even use them? the trial accounts were never this restrictive and this is the first time ive ever seen any consequences for my characters race

[Brusanan]

Ah, yeah. That will do it.

My main is Caldari, but I mostly fly Gallente these days. If I went Alpha I wouldn't have access to my favorite frigs and cruisers, but at least I have Caldari trained.

[Rikilamaru]

alpha clones are race locked

[Eftwyrd]

引用自 Rikilamaru：

alpha clones are race locked

yes thank you for stating the obvious mate, do have anthing constructive/intelligent to add or are you done?

[Rikilamaru]

引用自 Eftwyrd：

引用自 Rikilamaru：

alpha clones are race locked

yes thank you for stating the obvious mate, do have anthing constructive/intelligent to add or are you done?

toxic much

[Eftwyrd]

引用自 Rikilamaru：

引用自 Eftwyrd：

yes thank you for stating the obvious mate, do have anthing constructive/intelligent to add or are you done?

toxic much

still not being contructive riki... you've been arguing with me for hours ain this thread and i have yet to see a valid point out of you

[Rikilamaru]

引用自 Eftwyrd：

引用自 Rikilamaru：

toxic much

still not being contructive riki... you've been arguing with me for hours ain this thread and i have yet to see a valid point out of you

already drop facts on you witch just reaffirmed by ccp. your the one arguing about alpha clones, since you couldnt be bother to look up what alpha clones limitations.

[Shotgun]

引用自 SMERG Brusanan：

As for P2W accusations:

How do you define "win"? Winning fights? Ship type is irrelevant. You win fights by losing over and over and over again until you learn how to pick fights you can win in the ship you are currently flying. There are no ships that are de-facto better. Eve is a complicated game of rock-paper-scissors.

Sure, in a controlled environment where two otherwise equal pilots are fighting 1v1 with the same ship, and one has a slight SP advantage, the 5% increase to damage output or HP will give them a competitive advantage.

But Eve is not a controlled environment. Eve has no instances, and no matchmaker. That is one of the things that make Eve Online the best PVP MMO on the market. If you are an experienced PVPer you know that fights are often decided before the first shot is fired. Leading up to an engagement each side is trying to start the fight with a competitive advantage, and SP is almost never a contributing factor in the outcome of fights. There are hundreds of factors that determine the outcome of a fight, and most of those factors aren't obvious to you unless you have years of PVP experience under your belt.

If you're talking about the SP gap between Alphas and Omegas, you are just recycling the same old "Why should I start playing Eve now when veterans have so much more SP than I do?". This SP gap has existed in Eve for 13 years. Nothing has changed with Alphas, except the people on the lower end of the SP spectrum are playing for free now.

If your argument is "But Omegas have access to bigger and better ships than I do!", that is the exact same SP and wealth gap that has existed in Eve for 13 years. Nothing has changed, except now the players flying the smaller, cheaper ships are playing for free.

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that Eve has perma-death. This is the game-changer here. There have always been more expensive ships or modules that the most skilled and wealthiest players could fly to give themselves a competitive advantage, but there's a reason why most of us choose not to fly these "better" ships all the time: Perma-death means that you have much, much more to lose by flying these ships. A Pirate BS that is maybe 25% better than a regular T1 BS costs 3x the price. A Pirate Cruiser that is maybe 50% better than a T1 cruiser costs 10x the price. And that's before taking faction modules into account, and ignoring the fact that a T1 loss will mostly be covered by insurance.

Risk vs Reward. If you try to pay to win in Eve, you are really just paying to lose more spectacularly.

The industry definition of P2W is a cash barrier to a tangible advantage that can't reasonably be acquired through normal gameplay. To that end, EVE now satisfies that definition because of its Alpha limitations.

How do we make a proper comparison? By utilizing averages and constants. If two ten-year-old vets have an encounter and one is an Alpha while the other is an Omega, it's a statistically-valid expectation for the Omega to win. You can't just say "oh, well, the Alpha brought ten friends to the fight and won!" The Omega is just as capable of doing the same. You can drastically increase the sample size, and this will still hold true: in an encounter between two groups of one hundred players each, the side with a smaller ratio of Alphas to Omegas is naturally preselected.

And it's not just a matter of pure skill points or ship size/value, either. Alpha limitations prevent you from utilizing certain tactics by locking away situational gear and abilities, such as cloaking. Locking this stuff away behind a pay wall isn't the same as being able to sell a PLEX in order to jump into a Vindicator, because a non-PLEXing player at least has the capability to use his own Vindicator by playing normally.

Other "free" games don't do this (aside from terrible Facebook wallet-milking casual crap).

I'm one of the biggest critics of applying the P2W laber to games in which it doesn't belong. Which is why it's downright maddening to have to do it for a game that I never expected would deserve it.

[Eftwyrd]

引用自 Rikilamaru：

引用自 Eftwyrd：

still not being contructive riki... you've been arguing with me for hours ain this thread and i have yet to see a valid point out of you

already drop facts on you witch just reaffirmed by ccp. your the one arguing about alpha clones, since you couldnt be bother to look up what alpha clones limitations.

notice the thread title is alpha clones too restirictive, and funnily enough thats exactly the point i am arguing... wow who'd hav thunk it. and you've done what? just said no its fine as it is, facts all of us are already aware of are not constructive and add nothing to the discussion, neither did your pis**** contest, nor your logical fallacies. this discusion is, surprisingly enough about whether more should be available. im pretty sure your just trolling tbh. noone could be this dense

[Brusanan]

引用自 Shotgun：

The industry definition of P2W is a cash barrier to a tangible advantage that can't reasonably be acquired through normal gameplay. To that end, EVE now satisfies that definition because of its Alpha limitations.

How do we make a proper comparison? By utilizing averages and constants. If two ten-year-old vets have an encounter and one is an Alpha while the other is an Omega, it's a statistically-valid expectation for the Omega to win. You can't just say "oh, well, the Alpha brought ten friends to the fight and won!" The Omega is just as capable of doing the same. You can drastically increase the sample size, and this will still hold true: in an encounter between two groups of one hundred players each, the side with a smaller ratio of Alphas to Omegas is naturally preselected.

And it's not just a matter of pure skill points or ship size/value, either. Alpha limitations prevent you from utilizing certain tactics by locking away situational gear and abilities, such as cloaking. Locking this stuff away behind a pay wall isn't the same as being able to sell a PLEX in order to jump into a Vindicator, because a non-PLEXing player at least has the capability to use his own Vindicator by playing normally.

Other "free" games don't do this (aside from terrible Facebook wallet-milking casual crap).

I'm one of the biggest critics of applying the P2W laber to games in which it doesn't belong. Which is why it's downright maddening to have to do it for a game that I never expected would deserve it.

By your own definition Eve was already P2W, since subbing gives you a competitive advantage over the 21 day trial. If a timed free trial is fine in your book, but that same trial extended indefinitely all of a sudden becomes P2W, then your definition of P2W is overly broad to the point of uselessness.

Also, I'd argue that the availability of PLEX in-game removes any kind of cash barrier.

[Rikilamaru]

引用自 Eftwyrd：

引用自 Rikilamaru：

already drop facts on you witch just reaffirmed by ccp. your the one arguing about alpha clones, since you couldnt be bother to look up what alpha clones limitations.

notice the thread title is alpha clones too restirictive, and funnily enough thats exactly the point i am arguing... wow who'd hav thunk it. and you've done what? just said no its fine as it is, facts all of us are already aware of are not constructive and add nothing to the discussion, neither did your pis**** contest, nor your logical fallacies. this discusion is, surprisingly enough about whether more should be available. im pretty sure your just trolling tbh. noone could be this dense

your the one is getting mad here bud, The point of alpha is so ppl can try EvE before subbing

[Shotgun]

引用自 SMERG Brusanan：

引用自 Shotgun：

The industry definition of P2W is a cash barrier to a tangible advantage that can't reasonably be acquired through normal gameplay. To that end, EVE now satisfies that definition because of its Alpha limitations.

How do we make a proper comparison? By utilizing averages and constants. If two ten-year-old vets have an encounter and one is an Alpha while the other is an Omega, it's a statistically-valid expectation for the Omega to win. You can't just say "oh, well, the Alpha brought ten friends to the fight and won!" The Omega is just as capable of doing the same. You can drastically increase the sample size, and this will still hold true: in an encounter between two groups of one hundred players each, the side with a smaller ratio of Alphas to Omegas is naturally preselected.

And it's not just a matter of pure skill points or ship size/value, either. Alpha limitations prevent you from utilizing certain tactics by locking away situational gear and abilities, such as cloaking. Locking this stuff away behind a pay wall isn't the same as being able to sell a PLEX in order to jump into a Vindicator, because a non-PLEXing player at least has the capability to use his own Vindicator by playing normally.

Other "free" games don't do this (aside from terrible Facebook wallet-milking casual crap).

I'm one of the biggest critics of applying the P2W laber to games in which it doesn't belong. Which is why it's downright maddening to have to do it for a game that I never expected would deserve it.

By your own definition Eve was already P2W, since subbing gives you a competitive advantage over the 21 day trial. If a timed free trial is fine in your book, but that same trial extended indefinitely all of a sudden becomes P2W, then your definition of P2W is overly broad to the point of uselessness.

Also, I'd argue that the availability of PLEX in-game removes any kind of cash barrier.

A trial is temporary; limited duration for the purpose of trying something out is implicit to the term. When a trial runs out, you can no longer play, so comparing that to our current situation is just...ridiculous.

Also, as mentioned before, there is not enough PLEX supply to satisfy more than a small fraction of players.

[Eftwyrd]

引用自 Rikilamaru：

引用自 Eftwyrd：

notice the thread title is alpha clones too restirictive, and funnily enough thats exactly the point i am arguing... wow who'd hav thunk it. and you've done what? just said no its fine as it is, facts all of us are already aware of are not constructive and add nothing to the discussion, neither did your pis**** contest, nor your logical fallacies. this discusion is, surprisingly enough about whether more should be available. im pretty sure your just trolling tbh. noone could be this dense

your the one is getting mad here bud, The point of alpha is so ppl can try EvE before subbing

that was the point of trial accounts, the fact that my 7yo old account defaults back to alpha suggest otherwise, and we are not here to discuss 'the point' of alpha, the devs restating the current rules of alpha doesnt in any way prejudice or disagree with our discussion on whether it is too limited, i am honestly tired of the b***s*** you keep spouting, could you please participate in this discussion like a the civilized member of society you profess to be and make constructive points and/or observations and stop harassing me? or is that too much to ask?

[Maldevich]

引用自 Thradar：

Now that I have a few days and the weekend to play as well as be in a 250 member corp, I've come to the conclusion that Alpha (F2P) is too restrictive for any long (or even medium) timeframe of playing the game. I'm already topped out on ships I can fly, and though it will take awhile to get all the skills available to Alpha, that will hit a brick wall too.

This will limit everything you do: earning ISK, agent mission progression will hit a wall, corp activities will eventually revert back to not helping newbrows and doing faction wars, PVP, making billions of ISK.

It just feel too restrictive right now, almost like CCP is beating me over the head to convert to Omega. Like "Upgrade, or you might as well just quit now because you're going to hit a wall very soon."

Would you want F2P ♥♥♥♥♥♥ system like ArcheAge? In here you can still train skill in offline with max 3 skill only in normal speed. On ArcheAge F2P not even get any labor point on offline. The restriction of ship can be accepted F2P = Mass Frigate, Destroyer and Cruiser, mean while F2P on ArcheAge is really killing you with you can't have land that essential to get material for crafting.