Adding PvE Content is Pointless

[Jackie Daytona]

I saw there was new PvE content for EVE. For a brief moment I thought about playing again. Then I remembered what happened last time.

When I played EVE, all I wanted to do was missions and mining. So that's what I did. I joined a small corp. I bought a subscription. For a time, everything was fine.

Then some PvP griefers decided my corp was a good target. They hunted and killed members of my corp relentlessly. We had no way of fighting back in any way.

I was advised to "logout until they get bored". I decided to take it a step further and uninstall the game. After all, what's the point of paying a subscription if someone can prevent you from playing for weeks?

That's why PvE content doesn't add anything to EVE. You can't actually complete the content. You'll just get griefed endlessly as you try.

In fact, there's no reason to play EVE at all. Unless you enjoy being subservient to other players whims. You either:

• Do what other players tell you to do without any autonomy whatsoever; OR
• Let PvP griefers determine when and if you are allowed to play.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by kasmemoro:

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

Compare that to WoW. Do guards in Orgrimmar allow Alliance characters to walk into the city and kill whatever Horde players they like? No, they do not. If they did, they would be utterly and completely irrelevant to the game. Just like CONCORD is in EVE.

Actually, they do. I've seen tons of times when players of one alliance ganged together and exterminated everyone in the capitals. There's achievement to kill enemy's king or something like that.

The difference is that in WoW, you have dozens of other people on your side. You can rally people, and fight off the menace. Even if enemy players kill all the NPCs, at the very least, the NPCs try to defend the city. The guards don't just stand there and allow hostile players to do whatever they want.

Originally posted by kasmemoro:

Also, i've seen tons of times when high-level character harrassed kindergarden and noob areas. Even participated few times by jihading enemy's noob areas as well. Rogue of top level + top PvP equipment + level 10-20-30-you_get_an_idea zone = :-) No loot or something, just for fun.

Troll someone else.

Originally posted by kasmemoro:

Same as EVE. Its open world with open PvP. "You can do whatever you want and be whoever you want", remember? They want to be jerks. Why your "want" is more valuable than anyone else's "want"?

Oh boy! Rhetoric!

It's not the same. In WoW I won't lose days/weeks/months/years of progress simply because some d-bag ganks me. Even if they do, I can logout to play another character. I can even go to another server. EVE heavily restricts the number of characters I can play, and I can't escape to another server.

I didn't do anything to deserve being blown up. All I was doing was mining ore, and minding my own business. I didn't hurt anyone, or cause anyone any trouble. I was of no value as a target.

Why go out of your way to ruin the experience of a new player? Because you want less people playing EVE?

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by Rowdy Ronny:

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

I was advised to "logout until they get bored". I decided to take it a step further and uninstall the game. After all, what's the point of paying a subscription if someone can prevent you from playing for weeks?

You met the wrong people, just like in real life you will suffer hard. You should have met me;

You seem like a total prick looking to troll people. After reading your post I already hate you.

Originally posted by Rowdy Ronny:

you and your friends should have a second account and train in parallel.

I don't have friends that play. (If I happen to have any Steam friends that do, it's incidental. Or they've stopped playing.)

Originally posted by Rowdy Ronny:

That way you can avoid gankers. It's even free these days.

...and then what? Get ganked on the secondary characters? Playing a weaker character with less money isn't a good solution.

Originally posted by Rowdy Ronny:

But the game is Think-to-win, not for you. You need to think or find someone to think for you. It's not their fault you hate thinking.

Just because I don't enjoy being ganked, doesn't mean I'm stupid. You EVE players need to give up this ridiculous notion that anyone that dislikes your game is lacking intelligence.

As a new player there is zero chance of defending yourself against gankers. There's very little anyone can do to prevent it.

[ZynXao]

it actually really surprises me that you seem to get ganked on a regular basis. I've only been playing since september last year and never got ganked in high sec at all. sure I died to a wardec target before but never had any trouble in high sec appart from that. I even flew around in a fireworks-destroyer during 'burn jita' :D as for the wardec: if you are at war with a corp/alliance CONCORD will never show up ;) wartargets are free to engage each other anywhere in the game. that's why playing in a high sec corp (especially a mining corp) is actually more risky than being in Goons. there are some groups that specialize in high sec wardecs as these usually dont shoot back and sit on Jita/Amarr/Hek... all day shooting at everything that blinks on their overview. but these guys would never come to Delve and mess with Goons for instance.

and as a new player in a corp I hope your corpmates educate you on how wardecs works and which systems/hubs to avoid. this is really annoying of course as you (especially a new player) would surely like to see the madness of Jita but you will get rekt on the gate there. your corp should have marked all wartargets as 'red' or something so you will see in local whenever someone 'red' enters your systems. align out and get ready to warp off if needed. this way you should be pretty safe.

[werdry]

I got tired of null-sec, but grabbing my 60kk sp (yes, i'm a noob) miner and saying "duck you, i'm going high-sec because imma bored" would be a bit too dickish. So i lend my main account to corp ceo and made new one. 7 days in high-sec on newly born - and noone gives a shirt. A bit of mining, a bit of agentrun, some drones harrasing... everyone is friendly and world is cute.

Worst part was stop worrying about local. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!! MUST RUN AWAY ASAP!!!!! So... no problems with natives, but via living as pve miner in nulls i got a bit of neuts-o-phobia.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

Just because I don't enjoy being ganked, doesn't mean I'm stupid. You EVE players need to give up this ridiculous notion that anyone that dislikes your game is lacking intelligence.

As a new player there is zero chance of defending yourself against gankers. There's very little anyone can do to prevent it.

That's a fundamental part of the eve indoctrination mindset. IE there's no problem with the game, it's the fault of the people commenting on the problem (even when CCP confirm the existence of the problem :D).

It's part of how the community has developed to try and keep players in the game. Make people disregard thier cognitive dissonance by blanketly dismissing all possible criticism as idiocy; "I like this game but X mechanic is completely broken and is damaging my enjoyment of it... But no, that's not right, I am not an idiot! I must continue to take an obscene workarounds (ie log off for weeks at a time to avoid a stalking multiboxer) because that's the intelligent way to play."

It's cult mentality basically. Shame members of the cult who may have doubts or misgivings into alignment, in this instance by questioning thier intellect, which if successful will lead to an even harder investment from the target to try to conform to the cult's ideal.

[neoVictrix]

So just because you decided to leave the NPC corp for a player operated corp, and ended up being wardec'd by another player corp, the game doesn't cater to a PvE audience and isn't something you can actually do?

You do understand how that sounds, right?


All you had to do was leave the corp and continue on your way until the wardec ended. Then again, I'm a solo player that's specialized in covert ops, data/relic hunting, and ecm warfare. Even during my time in a corp that was wardec'd on, i just used a jump clone and continued playing.

Yeah, some mehjods of griefing dont have a "counter", but not to where it can stop someone from playing. Also CONCORD isn't there for protection - hisec isn't "safe". Its part of EVE's golden rules.

[radkid10]

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

I saw there was new PvE content for EVE. For a brief moment I thought about playing again. Then I remembered what happened last time.

When I played EVE, all I wanted to do was missions and mining. So that's what I did. I joined a small corp. I bought a subscription. For a time, everything was fine.

Then some PvP griefers decided my corp was a good target. They hunted and killed members of my corp relentlessly. We had no way of fighting back in any way.

I was advised to "logout until they get bored". I decided to take it a step further and uninstall the game. After all, what's the point of paying a subscription if someone can prevent you from playing for weeks?

That's why PvE content doesn't add anything to EVE. You can't actually complete the content. You'll just get griefed endlessly as you try.

In fact, there's no reason to play EVE at all. Unless you enjoy being subservient to other players whims. You either:

• Do what other players tell you to do without any autonomy whatsoever; OR
• Let PvP griefers determine when and if you are allowed to play.

another ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ story

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by neoVictrix:

So just because you decided to leave the NPC corp for a player operated corp, and ended up being wardec'd by another player corp, the game doesn't cater to a PvE audience and isn't something you can actually do?

You do understand how that sounds, right?

You are aware that it is correct, right? If you're always in danger from other players then you kind of arent in a PVE environment by definition.

It's why RPGs with actual PVE (or at least areas/servers intended for it) have real safeguards, instead of concorde (Which is poorly implemented and has never worked but over time supposedly became intentional. The "I meant to do that, totes!!" gambit in action :D.)

I mean just look at you. On the one hand "What it doesnt cater to PVE?" and then on the other hand "Yeah, some mehjods of griefing dont have a "counter", but not to where it can stop someone from playing. Also CONCORD isn't there for protection - hisec isn't "safe". Its part of EVE's golden rules."

The "eve is 100% pvp" narrative is either true or it isnt. It cant be both.

I mean;

Originally posted by neoVictrix:

All you had to do was leave the corp and continue on your way until the wardec ended. Then again, I'm a solo player that's specialized in covert ops, data/relic hunting, and ecm warfare. Even during my time in a corp that was wardec'd on, i just used a jump clone and continued playing.

Yeah, some mehjods of griefing dont have a "counter", but not to where it can stop someone from playing. Also CONCORD isn't there for protection - hisec isn't "safe". Its part of EVE's golden rules.

As much as this is an internet cliche, are you aware of what cognitive dissonance is?

[neoVictrix]

Originally posted by Please don't kill me!!:

-snip-

As a matter of design nothing about a PvE environment says it can't exist within a PvP environment, and vice versa.

However considering this topic, the feelings towards EVE aren't going to change regardless of anything said. So instead I'll just leave links that already address it and go back to doing PvE stuff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/25xfl7/corp_constantly_being_war_decd_what_to_do/
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Corporation_diplomacy#Wars
https://theevewalk.wordpress.com/the-highsec-wardec-guide-the-victim/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/664cnb/war_dec_system_totally_not_confusing/

If for some reason you do decide to take a peek into EVE again, I'd suggest staying in an NPC corp and joining the channels of Corps that interest you/friend you'd find youself playing with until you're ready to change corps. Learn ship fittings for ship types you would find yourself most likely to fly, and learn the basics of PvP from those willing to help teach (both 1v1 and group encounters, and how to get out of them).

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by neoVictrix:

Originally posted by Please don't kill me!!:

-snip-

As a matter of design nothing about a PvE environment says it can't exist within a PvP environment, and vice versa.

However considering this topic, the feelings towards EVE aren't going to change regardless of anything said. So instead I'll just leave links that already address it and go back to doing PvE stuff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/25xfl7/corp_constantly_being_war_decd_what_to_do/
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Corporation_diplomacy#Wars
https://theevewalk.wordpress.com/the-highsec-wardec-guide-the-victim/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/664cnb/war_dec_system_totally_not_confusing/

If for some reason you do decide to take a peek into EVE again, I'd suggest staying in an NPC corp and joining the channels of Corps that interest you/friend you'd find youself playing with until you're ready to change corps. Learn ship fittings for ship types you would find yourself most likely to fly, and learn the basics of PvP from those willing to help teach (both 1v1 and group encounters, and how to get out of them).

PvE environment says it can't exist within a PvP environment, and vice versa.

Environment. Noun.

1. the surroundings or conditions in which a person, animal, or plant lives or operates.

Something cannot be a PVE environment within a PVP environment. It is one or the other.


And did you really not even notice what you did even with me bolding and underlining it..?

[neoVictrix]

Originally posted by Please don't kill me!!:

And did you really not even notice what you did even with me bolding and underlining it..?

Trust me, I do that often. Be it fragmented trains of thought or me remembering something I've discussed/read about elsewhere that has to do with the subject, I am aware and it isn't intentional.


I did say as a matter of design - you can design games that are purely focused on a PvE experience or PvP, but you can also go about trying to have both exist together as seemlessly as possible. EVE has a lot of tools at the player's disposal to prevent it from being a train wreck like the setup ends up being in other games that try to do this, but there are still flaws that haven't been addressed (like war declarations).

[HEWOLF]

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

I saw there was new PvE content for EVE. For a brief moment I thought about playing again. Then I remembered what happened last time.

When I played EVE, all I wanted to do was missions and mining. So that's what I did. I joined a small corp. I bought a subscription. For a time, everything was fine.

Then some PvP griefers decided my corp was a good target. They hunted and killed members of my corp relentlessly. We had no way of fighting back in any way.

I was advised to "logout until they get bored". I decided to take it a step further and uninstall the game. After all, what's the point of paying a subscription if someone can prevent you from playing for weeks?

That's why PvE content doesn't add anything to EVE. You can't actually complete the content. You'll just get griefed endlessly as you try.

In fact, there's no reason to play EVE at all. Unless you enjoy being subservient to other players whims. You either:

• Do what other players tell you to do without any autonomy whatsoever; OR
• Let PvP griefers determine when and if you are allowed to play.

the only thing that stops me from playing the game is time. I get around the griefers by being in a 1-man guild. only me and my alts allowed. and I keep several different alts in different locations. so if one is camped, I logon to a different one. and since the game is now Free To Play. you dont have to worry about wasting money.

when Im mining I use 4 simple rules:

1. watch local for any flashing yellow or red.
2. if someone warp into the belt, talk to them so they know you arent afk or a robominer.
3. if they warp in warp out, I dock. because more than likely they bookmarked you for a suicide.
4. if they approach within 15KM, dock.

Ive been following those rules since I started the game back in 2005. and I can count hte number of times I died on one hand.

the rest is just having the proper skills to use shield/armor tanks on the ships you use. U dont need to be able to fight them. you just need to survive long enough to warp away. if you have drones out. leave them. better the lose of a few drones than a ship or you.

Dont haul things you arent willing to lose. DO NOT use the large freighters. use a small freighter. or if the load is small enough, a frigate setup as a bullet (IE it is setup for just SPEED) Works good for small loads or running a supply mission.

for combat missions, learn to use the battleship of your race, and get all the armor/weapons types to lvl 4 minimum, and get the T2 combat drones. the Megathron I run has 7 425 rails 2 on it and I never have to even fire them because my 5 drones have things dead before it gets within 30KM of me on lvl 2 missions. if you want a good setup let me know your eve name and I'll send you one.

Hopes this helps.

Hewolf

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by ZynXao:

it actually really surprises me that you seem to get ganked on a regular basis.

I don't. I got ganked once, and then uninstalled. The people that got me promised to do it over and over. I had no reason to believe that they would ever stop, for any reason.

Originally posted by ZynXao:

I've only been playing since september last year and never got ganked in high sec at all.

I don't believe you.

Originally posted by ZynXao:

sure I died to a wardec target before but never had any trouble in high sec appart from that. I even flew around in a fireworks-destroyer during 'burn jita' :D as for the wardec: if you are at war with a corp/alliance CONCORD will never show up ;) wartargets are free to engage each other anywhere in the game.

Yeah, I'm well aware. It's a completely broken and highly exploitable game mechanic... If you have a team of skilled players in expensive ships.

Originally posted by ZynXao:

that's why playing in a high sec corp (especially a mining corp) is actually more risky than being in Goons. there are some groups that specialize in high sec wardecs as these usually dont shoot back and sit on Jita/Amarr/Hek... all day shooting at everything that blinks on their overview. but these guys would never come to Delve and mess with Goons for instance.

They keep players like me from enjoying the game.

Originally posted by ZynXao:

and as a new player in a corp I hope your corpmates educate you on how wardecs works and which systems/hubs to avoid. this is really annoying of course as you (especially a new player) would surely like to see the madness of Jita but you will get rekt on the gate there. your corp should have marked all wartargets as 'red' or something so you will see in local whenever someone 'red' enters your systems. align out and get ready to warp off if needed. this way you should be pretty safe.

The people that got me used cheats to determine my location, then lied in wait along my path of travel.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by Please don't kill me!!:

Originally posted by ♢♣ Rolling Skulls ♣♢:

Just because I don't enjoy being ganked, doesn't mean I'm stupid. You EVE players need to give up this ridiculous notion that anyone that dislikes your game is lacking intelligence.

As a new player there is zero chance of defending yourself against gankers. There's very little anyone can do to prevent it.

That's a fundamental part of the eve indoctrination mindset. IE there's no problem with the game, it's the fault of the people commenting on the problem (even when CCP confirm the existence of the problem :D).

It's part of how the community has developed to try and keep players in the game. Make people disregard thier cognitive dissonance by blanketly dismissing all possible criticism as idiocy; "I like this game but X mechanic is completely broken and is damaging my enjoyment of it... But no, that's not right, I am not an idiot! I must continue to take an obscene workarounds (ie log off for weeks at a time to avoid a stalking multiboxer) because that's the intelligent way to play."

It's cult mentality basically. Shame members of the cult who may have doubts or misgivings into alignment, in this instance by questioning thier intellect, which if successful will lead to an even harder investment from the target to try to conform to the cult's ideal.

This is pretty much my assessment of EVE players.

I don't understand. How do they expect me to work for weeks, lose all that progress to other players, and still find the game fun? Why would I want to start over when it's just going to happen again and again?

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by neoVictrix:

So just because you decided to leave the NPC corp for a player operated corp, and ended up being wardec'd by another player corp, the game doesn't cater to a PvE audience and isn't something you can actually do?

You do understand how that sounds, right?


All you had to do was leave the corp and continue on your way until the wardec ended. Then again, I'm a solo player that's specialized in covert ops, data/relic hunting, and ecm warfare. Even during my time in a corp that was wardec'd on, i just used a jump clone and continued playing.

Yeah, some mehjods of griefing dont have a "counter", but not to where it can stop someone from playing. Also CONCORD isn't there for protection - hisec isn't "safe". Its part of EVE's golden rules.

Nobody told me, "If you join a player corp you'll be endlessly griefed."

The "golden rules" are a big list of reasons to avoid playing EVE.