Solo PvP ships and fits

[Rincewind]

I am not looking for PvP, i will run away as soon as i see another player, even in highsec. Because when you are new to this game you have nothing, no ship, no isk and no skills.

And will get oneshotted anyways. Even if you try to run. Even if your ship was only worth about 10mil and not carrying cargo other than ammo. And then the player that killed you will act like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over chat. What a fantastic community.
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So here is what i am asking for: A ship that will allow me to survive incoming ganks whilst being able to do ATLEAST lv4 PvE missions. Preferably being able to do sleeper sites. So that i know what ship(s) to train skills for. What ship(s) to get a BP for.
----------------------
Now you are going to say: "oh you are new, get a frigate and go and die in nullsec (to practise). Thats how you learn". By dying over and over again to no awail or reward? There are two options in PvP for a new player: 1:RUN 2:DIE. sooo, FU prick, how about giving some actual advice?

[Shotgun]

Rincewind původně napsal:

battlecattle původně napsal:

I would recommend using seperate ships for PvP and PvE if possible, as a PvP fit is generally ill-suited for PvE and vice versa.

For level 4 missions you'll want to use a battleship (preferably one which can choose damage types) since they're tanky and do quite a bit of damage. For c3 sleeper sites you'll want a t3 cruiser, such as the tengu (mind you, damage type selection doesn't matter since sleepers have the same damage resists across the board). T3s can also run l4s without issue, but it's slower than using a battleship because they do a little bit less damage.

Your best defense against ganks in a PvE ship is to watch d-scan (alt d) and keep an eye out for threats. Keep an eye out for probes and ships, they can only harm you if they can get on grid with you. Also watch local for a sudden jump in population, indicitive a fleet entered system.

Hey look an actual reply with good advice!

Thank you sir!

It was good advice, but it wasn't advice that you specifically asked for in your original post. This is very general knowledge that you can get within the first few minutes of reading a guide. The last paragraph, for example, has general tips that are very valid, but doesn't go into details, which is important. Details like wormholes not having a local chat, and recon cruisers being invisible on d-scan, for example. Which is why I told you what I did: there is no surefire way to prevent death; you can only minimize its chances of occurring. And you can't do that without knowledge and practice, which you won't get by shunning conflict. Even if you read all there is to read about PvP, you will still do terribly until you expose yourself to enough of it. Intelligence will lessen the curve, but not eliminate it entirely.

[Rincewind]

Shotgun původně napsal:

Rincewind původně napsal:

Nope, first he tells me that what i just described does not happen, Which is a bunch of bullcrap, because it does happen and has happend and will happen. Do not pretend otherwise.

Proof? Unless it has at the very least happened to you, this is conjecture.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Then he tells me to elaborate on ganking. I was using the term ganking to refer to the general happenstance where you are attacked unexpectedly with litte or no chance of escape. It was my understanding that this was what the term meant? If i wanted to specify suicide ganking i would have.

Ganking in EVE usually refers to suicide-ganking since any other instance of a player attacking another player is at least somewhat consensual. For example, you can't really "gank" someone in null-sec, because it would be irrational for them to say "well, I'm not consenting to the possibility of PvP" after going to lawless space.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Afterwards I am told i will die anyways because i am new. And makes no elaboration on how to avoid that other than to keep dying.

I didn't say that. What I said is that if someone sets their eyes on you, there is no guaranteed way not to die; all you can do is lower your chances of dying, by making yourself less of a target.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Lastly he tells me to go and die to gain experience. It is not advice to tell someone to blindly rush into battle with inferior equipment or training.
+
So in all honestly it is considerd good advice to go blindly into PvP in a T1 frig or destroyer and die or run away?

Why not? That's how a lot of the best players started out.

Now, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't make an effort to read up on some baseline fitting and game mechanics knowledge, but age and inexperience have nothing to do with that. We'll get to that later.

Rincewind původně napsal:

What is written is patronizing scoffs, not advice.

No, it's not. You simply choose to interpret my words that way because you disagree with their message. I've taught many players throughout the years, and have seen reactions like that many times.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Maybe i should clarify.

Since there is a massive skillpoint gap and isk gap between a new player and an older player, whats a good way of going around said gap? How do i mitigate the numbers differance in the best way?

Should i just farm quietly until i buy a couple of skillinjectors and good fits? Or should i go and kill my isk pointlessly and never make any real progress?

This is a much better question to ask.

The baseline answer is that you should acquire knowledge. One of the best ways of doing this is to start memorizing the stats and abilities of various ships and modules. On top of that, you should read a few wiki articles dealing with important PvP concepts like aggression timers and security status mechanics. Playing with other people helps a lot, so the previous advice of joining a rookie PvP training corporation is very solid.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Ah i see.

Everytime i have asked this question i get the same answers: Go and kill as many of your ships as possible. The gain from this is what? Learning how to doubleclick in the same direction to fly parallel? Doubleclicking is hard, right clicking to look at your opponents ship is also hard. Learning what range your weapons have? Cant i just test that out vs rats...Learning what you can and cant attack? please...as a beginner the only thing you can fight is other beginners.

You think that all of those things are simple and easy, but that's only because you haven't been in those situations yet.

One of the most important aspects of mastering PvP, for example, is learning to manage your fear and anxiety. Learning to "let go" and control your heart rate are crucial to success, and you won't get to achieve that without repeated exposure to risk. But once you can do it, you'll be able to think clearly during an encounter, instead of panicking and getting the shakes. It might seem funny to you, but I'm being completely serious.

Rincewind původně napsal:

Since noone is offering advice on a good way to mitigate the vast differance in numbers i guess its just farming for skillinjectors until i can fly a Vargur then......

Injectors will help you get stuff quicker, but without the proper knowledge and experience, all you'll achieve is giving someone a nice Vargur kill. What, you think that you'll be able to hit a Marauder "I win" button, and beat vets, after spending months, or even years, running away from other players, "even in high-sec"?

I have hundreds of kills like that.

Rincewind původně napsal:

I guess the vets just want me to loose more than i am gaining so that they can keep their powerplay ;)

This might have been a viable argument, if not for the fact that your frigate losses will do absolutely nothing for their "powerplay." Were much better served by you remaining ignorant, so that you can give us nice Vargur kills later on. And yet, that doesn't match the advice you're being given (or the fact that you're being given advice at all).

Shotgun původně napsal:

Rincewind původně napsal:

Hey look an actual reply with good advice!

Thank you sir!

It was good advice, but it wasn't advice that you specifically asked for in your original post. This is very general knowledge that you can get within the first few minutes of reading a guide. The last paragraph, for example, has general tips that are very valid, but doesn't go into details, which is important. Details like wormholes not having a local chat, and recon cruisers being invisible on d-scan, for example. Which is why I told you what I did: there is no surefire way to prevent death; you can only minimize its chances of occurring. And you can't do that without knowledge and practice, which you won't get by shunning conflict. Even if you read all there is to read about PvP, you will still do terribly until you expose yourself to enough of it. Intelligence will lessen the curve, but not eliminate it entirely.

For the love of sweet baby raptor jeebus, lay off the weed man.

Being vauge and generally stating that "you gon die, git gud son" isnt much help compared to someting that is tangible.

[TVMAN]

Rincewind původně napsal:

So in all honestly it is considerd good advice to go blindly into PvP in a T1 frig or destroyer and die or run away?

Sure, why not? I got my start in a small-time pirate corp acting as a tackler in a T1 frig for the bigger boys in my gang. They gave me the ships and told me what to do, and I learned by doing. It's another reason why I suggested you should look into joining a corp earlier.

[Shotgun]

Rincewind původně napsal:

For the love of sweet baby raptor jeebus, lay off the weed man.

Being vauge and generally stating that "you gon die, git gud son" isnt much help compared to someting that is tangible.

First of all, I didn't say anything close to resembling that.

Second, no one is going to be able to distill a year-long learning process into a convenient forum post. A general understanding of the environment you're in should act as a launching platform toward greater knowledge. For example, you went into this expecting special tips on how to survive ganking, and were told that that's not really a viable strategy and given advice to redirect your energy toward goals that would increase your overall level of efficiency in any conflict. That's progress. Also, you were given concrete advice like "learn the stats of the ships and modules in the game."

No one threw a "git gud" at you. But hey, if you want bad advice, I can do that too: you can avoid getting ganked while running missions by not picking up anything from a yellow container and making sure that you fly an insured T1 battleship with T2 gear and at least 50,000 EHP, and you can't avoid getting ganked in wormholes at all no matter what you do so never go into them because you'll be killed and will get sad/angry. Why is it like this? Doesn't matter. Just follow these instructions, and you'll almost never lose your ship.

[Rincewind]

You are making a whole lot of assumptions there bud. Together with your patronizing way of putting it forth, it makes it kind of hard to take you seriously.

For example here you are dissmissing my words straight off the bat:

Shotgun původně napsal:

I'm willing to bet that none of this has actually happened to you. You're just being hyper-defensive because you need to justify your unproven perceptions about the game.

Right?

Unless you expose yourself to hostilities (such as by stealing loot that doesn't belong to you), no one is going to bother shooting you, as a new player, when you're flying an empty, 10m ISK ship in high-sec. It just doesn't happen.

Here is you telling me to "git gud and you gon die" :

Shotgun původně napsal:

The best thing you can do for your survivability in this game is to learn how to PvP properly, because you'll understand the "other side" and all of the tricks it uses. And the best way to do that is to throw yourself into the fire.

Now you are actually making an effort into being condesending and unhelpful:

Shotgun původně napsal:

No one threw a "git gud" at you. But hey, if you want bad advice, I can do that too: you can avoid getting ganked while running missions by not picking up anything from a yellow container and making sure that you fly an insured T1 battleship with T2 gear and at least 50,000 EHP, and you can't avoid getting ganked in wormholes at all no matter what you do so never go into them because you'll be killed and will get sad/angry. Why is it like this? Doesn't matter. Just follow these instructions, and you'll almost never lose your ship.

I could nitpick and quote your posts all day but i dont think you will ever realize what you are doing.


Are you perhaps employed in politics?

[Harrison]

First off, Shotgun's advice is spot on even if it doesn't answer the specific question you asked.

Rincewind původně napsal:

So here is what i am asking for: A ship that will allow me to survive incoming ganks whilst being able to do ATLEAST lv4 PvE missions. Preferably being able to do sleeper sites. So that i know what ship(s) to train skills for. What ship(s) to get a BP for.

All the answers depend on definitions. If you intend to be able to do pve while also beating the snot out of anyone who jumps you then you're barking up the wrong tree. The only way that happens if either:
A) You're in a group, there really is safety in numbers
and/or
B) The person(s) attacking you make a grievous misjudgement.

The first one is usually the best deterrent to being ganked by someone who is solo, but it puts you into the sights of larger groups of pvp pilots.

And counting on the second is just silly.

Honestly the best way to survive a gank is to not be there when it happens.

In Wormholes this means being dilligent about watching dscan and either rolling or putting scouts on all the connections or anywhere else a player might come from (POS or Citadel). That way you have as much warning as you can possibly give yourself to warp out of the site before someone else lands.

In high sec this is hard because you are locked into routes to and from your mission station and if someone gets it in their head to suicide gank you then all they have to do is wait for you to jump a gate. I know this from experiance.

As for fits, I'm partial to the tengu for most of my pve needs in high sec

This fit will probably need a 3% CPU implant, it served me well in my mission running days. It'll do any lvl 4 mission I ever threw it at (you many need to change the hardners to be mission specifc), it'll run any c1 or c2 sites for sure and some c3 sites and maybe the Intergrated Terminus in c4's.

[Tengu, PVE Tengu]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
IFFA Compact Damage Control

Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

If you have multiple accounts, enough for two on the field and a scout, you could run a tinker setup

[Nestor, cheap]

Damage Control II
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Large Cap Battery II
Large Cap Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I


Garde II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Warden II x5
Ogre II x5
Hammerhead II x5


Optimal Range Script x1

This will run anything up to a Core Garrison in c5's. It's actually cap stable without the Cap transfers but they're nice when you get nueted by sleepers. Below a c5 you can probably replace the True Sansha EANM's with more Drone damage amps. Since Nestors can refit off each other as long as they don't have a weapons timer you can carry a bunch of extra mods to fit almost any situation.

If you're more partial to shields

[Rattlesnake, Tinker PVE]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
'Dyad' Co-Processor I
Sentient Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer II
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

This runs up to the c5 core garrisons but it requires a partner as well, since that shield booster will drain it's cap in about 2 minutes without someone transferring cap too it. And it has a GTFO button.

[Rincewind]

Harrison původně napsal:

Lots of good stuff.

Thanks for that.

Now here comes a followup question: You are saying i cant PvE and at the same time being able to defend myself from potential invaders.

Well i can increase my chances of running away but not beat them down enough that they wont try it again (unless the ganker is dumb, but counting on that is as you said silly).

Is this because the PvE is mostly wave after wave of multiple and different ships? and the PvP in this case would be more focused on who gets the drop on the other one the fastest? Or is it just the fact that there is always a bigger fish?

So, how do you get around that? Maybe get a really high alpha at long range and lower the CD on the jump drive as much as possible?

[Harrison]

It's because pve fits and pvp fits are vastly different.

PVE ships must be able to tank for long periods usually and need to do only consistent DPS. which is why the tengu is Cap stable at like 50%

PVP ships only need to tank longer than what they're trying to kill.

If I were going to attack that tengu in a wormhole, all I'd need is

[Hurricane, Hurricane - Armor]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
Medium Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5

The single nuet will let it kill you long before you'd power through it's buffer.

[TVMAN]

Rincewind původně napsal:

Harrison původně napsal:

Lots of good stuff.

Thanks for that.

Now here comes a followup question: You are saying i cant PvE and at the same time being able to defend myself from potential invaders.

Well i can increase my chances of running away but not beat them down enough that they wont try it again (unless the ganker is dumb, but counting on that is as you said silly).

Is this because the PvE is mostly wave after wave of multiple and different ships? and the PvP in this case would be more focused on who gets the drop on the other one the fastest?

So, how do you get around that?

The attacking pilots can choose to engage you or not, and most of the time pirates looking for prey won't start a fight unless they know for a fact they will win. Remember, piracy and ganking are valid ways of making money in this game as well, and it's not cost effective to pick fights you'll lose.

You can't really get around it. The most you manage in EvE is risk reduction, but there's no way to mitigate the risk entirely (aside from remaining docked).

[battlecattle]

Rincewind původně napsal:

Harrison původně napsal:

Lots of good stuff.

Thanks for that.

Now here comes a followup question: You are saying i cant PvE and at the same time being able to defend myself from potential invaders.

Well i can increase my chances of running away but not beat them down enough that they wont try it again (unless the ganker is dumb, but counting on that is as you said silly).

Is this because the PvE is mostly wave after wave of multiple and different ships? and the PvP in this case would be more focused on who gets the drop on the other one the fastest?

So, how do you get around that?

PvE and PvP ships are simply fitted differently.

A PvE ship will have resistance hardeners and a repairer/booster to keep itself alive for the duration of the mission/site, the rest of its non-weapon modules/rigs dedicated to improving damage or damage application (to run the site/mission quickly), or possibly a sensor booster to improve targeting range. Utility high slots will likely be used for a drone control unit for longer drone control range or a tractor beam for scooping up loot.

A general PvP ship will either buffer tank (extenders/plates) to or focus on repairing damage quickly (likely dual rep/boost), the intent being to survive short periods of intense damage. It will also dedicate some mid slots to tackle and web (to prevent foe from warping off and controlling range). It may also equip some mods/rigs to improve speed (since range control can be very important, as can chasing down a target). Any high utility slots will likely be fitted with neuts to drain the capacitor of one's opponent.

[Shotgun]

If you're going to criticize my posts for their tone, you should take a hard look at your original one first. I don't know how any rational person can think that anything I've said so far can come close to stacking up against a preemptive ♥♥♥♥-you to any potential helpers.

Look, I've seen this all before. As I've said elsewhere on these forums, only about ten percent of the people I try to help end up listening to me. But I've been at this for a dozen years, and know exactly what the various doors you can open lead to. It might sound elitist to you, but experience is experience, and I listen to others when they share it. So I tell you what: you do things however you want to do them. My conscience is clean no matter what happens, because you'll either come to accept what I've said here one way or another, or you'll end up acting as entertaining content for someone who does. Either way, we thank you for your valuable contribution to the EVE universe.

[Rincewind]

Shotgun původně napsal:

If you're going to criticize my posts for their tone, you should take a hard look at your original one first. I don't know how any rational person can think that anything I've said so far can come close to stacking up against a preemptive ♥♥♥♥-you to any potential helpers.

Look, I've seen this all before. As I've said elsewhere on these forums, only about ten percent of the people I try to help end up listening to me. But I've been at this for a dozen years, and know exactly what the various doors you can open lead to. It might sound elitist to you, but experience is experience, and I listen to others when they share it. So I tell you what: you do things however you want to do them. My conscience is clean no matter what happens, because you'll either come to accept what I've said here one way or another, or you'll end up acting as entertaining content for someone who does. Either way, we thank you for your valuable contribution to the EVE universe. :B1:

Yes yes, you are the elite overlord of mentoring.....oh wait, if you actually where, you wouldnt feel such an overwhelming need to try and point that out...

And the preemptive part was because i knew that there was atleast one guy that would come with that exact advice.....and you did! what a coincidence!

[Tor]

This was a good troll thread, well done OP.

[.?]

Yep this has to be a troll, if not OP is going to learn really quickly where his cocky attitude is going to get him in game.

[xzyzzy]

Rincewind původně napsal:

Since noone is offering advice on a good way to mitigate the vast differance in numbers i guess its just farming for skillinjectors until i can fly a Vargur then......

I guess the vets just want me to loose more than i am gaining so that they can keep their powerplay ;)

Bigger is never better.

Just because you think mauraders are cool, doesn't mean they are the solopwnmobiles of the games.

They're also extremely easy to kill with enough peopleand energy neuts :^).