深海迷航:冰点之下

深海迷航:冰点之下

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GAMING_Alligator 2021 年 6 月 6 日 下午 2:35
Tone of Subnautica vs Below Zero
I just fired up the original Subnautica to scratch the itch a bit now that I've finished BZ.

It's really noticeable how everything immediately feeels more hostile and dangerous. You're dumped in the middle of the ocean without any land in sight, and the starting area is a lot deeper and darker than in BZ.
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 260 条留言
TaterTot 2021 年 6 月 6 日 下午 2:49 
BelowZero is just a storyline focused side of Subnautica.
Subnautica will provide a more open free roam style of the game. With much more to explore.

Im going to guess they are going to release games in a series following the story they have set in motion.
Markus Reese 2021 年 6 月 6 日 下午 4:51 
From a storyline focus, Subnautica was not lacking on story, it was more subtle about it. They actually co developed it with a writer whom essentially wrote a story to which they translated into the game.

Difference is original was a mystery story while this one is effectively exposition vs discovery.
Juicy Beefcake 2021 年 6 月 6 日 下午 9:06 
引用自 twistedmelon
From a storyline focus, Subnautica was not lacking on story, it was more subtle about it.
^This^
The people that think Subnautica didn't have a story never read any of the logs.
Comparing Subnautica's story to Below Zero's is like comparing Dune to Twilight...
©.VorteX 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 2:10 
Subnautica: an epic saga of survival and exploration in a vast, mysterious, terrifying world.

Below Zero: stooling in a tub
AuldWolf 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 3:20 
The first Subnautica didn't have much of a story, a scant few lines of spoken dialogue and some PDAs do not a story make. It's the poorly understood difference between world-building and narrative. The original had the former, Below Zero had both.

The focus of Below Zero was different, however, in that they wanted to target a different group of people. The original Subnautica was meant purely for horror fans, you're correct there, it was basically a game meant to envoke male chavinism—that notion of becoming dominant and superior to a hostile environment. At first you're running away, then when you become powerful enough you're mudering everything.

It's very much a murder game, you murder or you're murdered. That's why pacifist plays are far more difficult in the original because the developer never considered it.

Below Zero, on the other hand, has more in common with Beyond Blue. 4546B isn't just a backdrop to murder in Below Zero. In the first game it is, that's why so many biomes are flat and empty, the more interesting biomes—like Twisty Bridges and Lilypads—got cut to make way for the roving castle that is the Cyclops, a murder-machine for chauvinistic intent. That was all about dominating the depths. Below Zero was, instead, focused on having a sense of place. It wanted to frame a more believable world, with creatures that could actually exist. It's very different than the eldritch abominations (often complete with Freudian elements) of the original.

4546B in BZ had a sense of place, instead of just being about murder you were supposed to respect and appreciate the world and its wildlife. That's why there are many interactions with said wildlife in BZ that aren't in the original because of this shift, since in the original your goal was to murder everything lest it murders you. In this, it was more about the experience, the feeling of being on an alien world and interacting with these bizarre, peculiar forms of life.

Like I said, Below Zero has more in common with Beyond Blue than it does the original. I feel that one of the biggest shifts was the innate chauvinism of the first. You're a dude who at first has to run, but then he gets stronger, and he proves that he's superior to all life on 4546B by becoming a genocidal force. In BZ you're a scientist lady who's more interested in learning than killing.

The point was to draw in a different audience. If they just created Subnautica but more? It wouldn't have worked. The reason for that is that the "magic" of the original Subnautica would be gone for thsoe who played it. It'd just be more of the same. So it'd suffer in reviews for not recapturing that as most would expect. So instead of going with that kind of chauvinistic murder simulator, they went with a game that would appeal more to Myst or casual adventure fans, those who prefer to seek than hunt.

This is why there's a much more circuitous feel to Below Zero. With the Cyclops gone due to this shift in focus, it means that there's much more of a sense of finding wonder. I think the most obvious example of this is the vent garden, and the framing involved. It's an incredible thing to see for the first time, it's awe-inspiring. I feel the same can be said for the glow whales too. I have fond memories of finding those for the first time, patting the, just riding them around... Lovely, gentle creatures.

It's just a different demographic focus. The kind of people who play BZ would be those more inciined to do a pacifist run. This is why, conversely, there's a greenhouse. It's just meant to appeal to different kinds of players, and that's a smart choice for the reasons I stated where the lack of experience with Subnautica can't be replicated. So they were better off on trying to bring a new demographic into the franchise.

I'm more than happy for fans of the original Subnautica—with all of its horror and murder—to enjoy it. I would've hoped that OG Sub fans would've felt the same... Sadly, there's been a lot of entitled and very privileged salty bitterness around BZ because apparently they feel as though they're entitled to the costly development of games that are focused at them and them alone, without realising htat—as stated—it would be impossible to recapture the feeling of the original.

So, yes! BZ is different! It's intentional. It showed me why Subnautica could be fun. I had very little interest in the original, but I do really, really love this one.
Markus Reese 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 7:06 
2
2
Original was about murder and Chauvinism? Wha? Did you play the first game even?

First off, the first game was completely neutral. They did not create a specific persona for the MC. The MC was anonymous for the most part, letting the player reflect the personality they wanted.

And murder? Umm... Opposite? The morale and key plot point of the game was respect and compassion saved the planet... which you can do with a couple plants. Can run everything off lantern fruit. The game worked very hard to set up that the PC was not some alpha in this world, and you were not permitted anything more lethal than a knife. So if the character was a murderer? That is the reflection of the player.

It was not a horror game, it was a suspense game.

Yeah, BZ has a greenhouse, if by greenhouse you mean a piece of glass roof. But you know that players in subnautica had a much wider variety of usable and plant growth mediums in original, yeah?

BZ is far more of a murder plot than original. Heck. BZ uses cheap and low bro horror jump scares (like a certain mad max decorated prawn encounter) which Subnautica didnt.

Edit: Ponder if above post is just a very elaborate trolling in how inverse to the actual game all those statements are.
最后由 Markus Reese 编辑于; 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 8:08
Tux 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 8:18 
引用自 Juicy Beefcake
引用自 twistedmelon
From a storyline focus, Subnautica was not lacking on story, it was more subtle about it.
^This^
The people that think Subnautica didn't have a story never read any of the logs.
Comparing Subnautica's story to Below Zero's is like comparing Dune to Twilight...

I know I never did. But of course there is a story, nobody thinks there was not one..come on

just for me personally I dont do stories in games unless I have to,
Tux 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 8:21 
引用自 AuldWolf
The first Subnautica didn't have much of a story, a scant few lines of spoken dialogue and some PDAs do not a story make..

To be fair, if you wrote out all the important plot points and important dialoge on a sheet of paper for this game, then did the same for the movie Nomadland, Subnautica likely had more plot and more important dialouge.

I want to be super clear though, I am not saying subnautica story was good, I have no idea because I ignored it. my point is, a bad or shallow story is still a story, aka Nomadland
最后由 Tux 编辑于; 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 8:21
Markus Reese 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 10:03 
引用自 Tux
引用自 Juicy Beefcake
^This^
The people that think Subnautica didn't have a story never read any of the logs.
Comparing Subnautica's story to Below Zero's is like comparing Dune to Twilight...

I know I never did. But of course there is a story, nobody thinks there was not one..come on

just for me personally I dont do stories in games unless I have to,
Fair enough! Final Fantasy 15 I got distracted and did free roaming most of my play. Forgetting about there being a world ending crisis because I got distracted with fishing and finding recipes for nom foods, then cruising about in a convertible!
Tux 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 10:13 
引用自 twistedmelon
引用自 Tux

I know I never did. But of course there is a story, nobody thinks there was not one..come on

just for me personally I dont do stories in games unless I have to,
Fair enough! Final Fantasy 15 I got distracted and did free roaming most of my play. Forgetting about there being a world ending crisis because I got distracted with fishing and finding recipes for nom foods, then cruising about in a convertible!

I now intentionally avoid stories if i can. I will play a game that has one, I just avoid engaging in the story line itself.
Reason is, I have a near impossible time as it is finding good movies and TV shows let alone try to expect a good storyline a video game, so I am not even going to bother.
I think that comes with age, after awhile these shallow storylines (in all media) just do not cut it anymore
最后由 Tux 编辑于; 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 10:14
gallant10 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 10:26 
2
引用自 AuldWolf
The first Subnautica didn't have much of a story, a scant few lines of spoken dialogue and some PDAs do not a story make. It's the poorly understood difference between world-building and narrative. The original had the former, Below Zero had both.

The focus of Below Zero was different, however, in that they wanted to target a different group of people. The original Subnautica was meant purely for horror fans, you're correct there, it was basically a game meant to envoke male chavinism—that notion of becoming dominant and superior to a hostile environment. At first you're running away, then when you become powerful enough you're mudering everything.

It's very much a murder game, you murder or you're murdered. That's why pacifist plays are far more difficult in the original because the developer never considered it.

Below Zero, on the other hand, has more in common with Beyond Blue. 4546B isn't just a backdrop to murder in Below Zero. In the first game it is, that's why so many biomes are flat and empty, the more interesting biomes—like Twisty Bridges and Lilypads—got cut to make way for the roving castle that is the Cyclops, a murder-machine for chauvinistic intent. That was all about dominating the depths. Below Zero was, instead, focused on having a sense of place. It wanted to frame a more believable world, with creatures that could actually exist. It's very different than the eldritch abominations (often complete with Freudian elements) of the original.

4546B in BZ had a sense of place, instead of just being about murder you were supposed to respect and appreciate the world and its wildlife. That's why there are many interactions with said wildlife in BZ that aren't in the original because of this shift, since in the original your goal was to murder everything lest it murders you. In this, it was more about the experience, the feeling of being on an alien world and interacting with these bizarre, peculiar forms of life.

Like I said, Below Zero has more in common with Beyond Blue than it does the original. I feel that one of the biggest shifts was the innate chauvinism of the first. You're a dude who at first has to run, but then he gets stronger, and he proves that he's superior to all life on 4546B by becoming a genocidal force. In BZ you're a scientist lady who's more interested in learning than killing.

The point was to draw in a different audience. If they just created Subnautica but more? It wouldn't have worked. The reason for that is that the "magic" of the original Subnautica would be gone for thsoe who played it. It'd just be more of the same. So it'd suffer in reviews for not recapturing that as most would expect. So instead of going with that kind of chauvinistic murder simulator, they went with a game that would appeal more to Myst or casual adventure fans, those who prefer to seek than hunt.

This is why there's a much more circuitous feel to Below Zero. With the Cyclops gone due to this shift in focus, it means that there's much more of a sense of finding wonder. I think the most obvious example of this is the vent garden, and the framing involved. It's an incredible thing to see for the first time, it's awe-inspiring. I feel the same can be said for the glow whales too. I have fond memories of finding those for the first time, patting the, just riding them around... Lovely, gentle creatures.

It's just a different demographic focus. The kind of people who play BZ would be those more inciined to do a pacifist run. This is why, conversely, there's a greenhouse. It's just meant to appeal to different kinds of players, and that's a smart choice for the reasons I stated where the lack of experience with Subnautica can't be replicated. So they were better off on trying to bring a new demographic into the franchise.

I'm more than happy for fans of the original Subnautica—with all of its horror and murder—to enjoy it. I would've hoped that OG Sub fans would've felt the same... Sadly, there's been a lot of entitled and very privileged salty bitterness around BZ because apparently they feel as though they're entitled to the costly development of games that are focused at them and them alone, without realising htat—as stated—it would be impossible to recapture the feeling of the original.

So, yes! BZ is different! It's intentional. It showed me why Subnautica could be fun. I had very little interest in the original, but I do really, really love this one.
the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about ? what murder and chauvinism ? did you even play the first game ? get your twitter bs out of here.
The Big Brzezinski 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 10:38 
One of biggest differences is that the Aurora crash site felt like a natural environment first, and a video game level second. It didn't care about you or your needs. You were a insignificant blip to this place. Need to dive to 250 meters and your Seamoth only goes down to 200? Sucks to be you. Figure it out.

Sector Zero, on the other hand, feels more like an unguided tour. It has oxygen plants strewn about areas you're meant to explore, so you don't have to figure out how to not drown on your own. Mineral collections wait at the end of caves like little prize boxes, so you don't have to scavenge for resources. Combined with other elements like spicy fruit salads, this level design leads you away from trying to understand the nature of the world you occupy, and towards trying to guess what the developer is thinking. Learning about and adapting to the world is the primary pillar of survival games. Without that pillar, the world of Below Zero collapses.
Markus Reese 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 11:07 
引用自 gallant10
the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about ? what murder and chauvinism ? did you even play the first game ? get your twitter bs out of here.

Well, from other discussions they had been in for the game, and then creeping onto their post history? The world is a horrible conspiracy and everybody is evil except for them and those who unquestionably agree with what they say.

There was murder. IE the aliens and their experimentation plus the horror and brutality of it. The moral being that they all died from a disease by exploiting others for their own gain. The same with the mongolian crash survivors. Only the son living long on the island, surviving with his garden. Both would have survived had they taken the approach the player does with asking and helping.

Yup, the alien precursors are extinct because they were to prideful and self centered to ask.

引用自 The Big Brzezinski
One of biggest differences is that the Aurora crash site felt like a natural environment first, and a video game level second. It didn't care about you or your needs. You were a insignificant blip to this place. Need to dive to 250 meters and your Seamoth only goes down to 200? Sucks to be you. Figure it out.

Sector Zero, on the other hand, feels more like an unguided tour. It has oxygen plants strewn about areas you're meant to explore, so you don't have to figure out how to not drown on your own. Mineral collections wait at the end of caves like little prize boxes, so you don't have to scavenge for resources. Combined with other elements like spicy fruit salads, this level design leads you away from trying to understand the nature of the world you occupy, and towards trying to guess what the developer is thinking. Learning about and adapting to the world is the primary pillar of survival games. Without that pillar, the world of Below Zero collapses.

This sums up what I experienced as well. It felt like a proper reef and blending of biomes. It felt grand and expansive, like nature is vs neatly contained and barriered zoo/artificial

The story I still feel is better in first, and it had an excellent story because YOU were the story. Like a top GMed TTRPG, there was a setting and world you interacted with that had challenges and depth, but the player directed how this played out. Many side components and history, but player directed vs railroaded.
最后由 Markus Reese 编辑于; 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 11:17
Tux 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 11:19 
引用自 twistedmelon
引用自 gallant10
the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about ? what murder and chauvinism ? did you even play the first game ? get your twitter bs out of here.

Well, from other discussions they had been in for the game, and then creeping onto their post history?. The world is a horrible conspiracy and everybody is evil except for them and those who unquestionably agree with what they say.
.

lol..that describes just about 90% of all movies ever made, i joke but not really
Just Chill 2021 年 6 月 7 日 上午 11:24 
引用自 Bookworm
and the starting area is a lot deeper and darker than in BZ.

The Safe Shallows?
They are lovely. Never felt really bad there, except while cave exploring and getting surprised by crashfishes. ^^

But aside of that it was an awesome trip.

A complete different story are the dunes.
I've to admit that BZ is missing a compareable area.
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发帖日期: 2021 年 6 月 6 日 下午 2:35
回复数: 260