Subnautica: Below Zero

Subnautica: Below Zero

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Jekko 25/mai./2021 às 12:00
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...game went full woke?
I'm a big Subnautica fan and I know the first was kind of woke as well (game was focused on other things so you barely noticed), here it seems like they have gone on another level:

1. Text to speech PDA voice has an Indian accent for no reason what so ever, makes no sense, only reason would be to "decolonise" the PDA
2. Three main human characters of the story are perfect mary sue black women with no faults, one of them could have been a legit indian or east asian, oh well. Was disappointed Fred from the trailer had so little impact in the story, he had more soul than all other NPCs combined.
3. PDA drivel only had homosexual romances, my problem is not the romance (?) in itself, only that it adds nothing other than "look! we are so inclusive!". Why not invest money on something interesting like a new biome instead of this meaningless chatter for real world approval?
4. Kind of a continuation of point 2, main character is supposed to be a knowledgeable xenobiologist yet behaves like a "baddass" tween , at no point I'd believe this PC to be a scientist if I wasn't told so beforehand

meh
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maestro 29/mai./2021 às 18:57 
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Are you arguing that there aren't incompetent cis white men in corner offices?

My argument is that them being cis white men has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not they are incompetent.

I'm sure there are some incompetent cis white men in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis white women in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis black men in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis black women in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent trans men in corner offices.
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc

Race, Gender, and Sexuality DO NOT MATTER whether or not someone is incompetent.

Like, how hard can that possibly be to understand?

You (and others like you) keep accusing cis white people of bigotry, but yet you have bigotry on full display here.

That's why the Right calls the Left Hypocrites on regular basis.

What you've been saying is hypocrisy and I'm sorry, but I have to call it what it is.

Ever heard of Correlation != Causation?

If someone is incompetent, that doesn't mean it's because of their race, or their gender, or their sexuality or any combination thereof.

You might say "the majority of incompetent people are...." but wait a minute, the majority of people are cis white people in the USA. Obviously, if you cherry pick a few on a certain criteria, say, incompetence, or those who own silver cars, you're going to end up with a number of white cis people outnumbering any other group.

Are you going to tell me that people who own silver cars, own silver cars because they are cis and white?
Última edição por maestro; 29/mai./2021 às 19:02
Markus Reese 29/mai./2021 às 19:07 
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Escrito originalmente por maestro:

Not only that, but they re-stated it in their own words, as though they believe that to be true, themselves.
Are you arguing that there aren't incompetent cis white men in corner offices?

Whether there are or are not is separate from the need to specify that specific group. So go ahead, go on twitter and say the inverse, see what happens. "Well its true, there could be..."

That is profiling. Bringing attention and blame to a singular group or ethnicity. Avoiding the fact doesnt make it less relevant. "The stereotyping is okay because there are some that fall into that stereotype" is the argument being made. You are justifying an unjust action because part of the sample fits, but not calling out the problem itself.

As for race, call it what you will, but it exists.

Back to Nazi party, review history. They were democratically elected into power and garnered popular support. You can discuss hiding alterior motives, or conspiracy theories about funding. But reality is that they came to power by winning favour due to a party lead with a silver tongue.

Hindsight is glorious but all that which occured that made them a symbol of hate? It didnt exist in their inital rise. They curried favor with the populus all over the world on a platorm of economic and sociological equality.

Post before you talk about defending racism. That never occured. I am calling out condemnable behavior by another party. It doesnt matter their motives. Morally unjust actions is morally injust.

The difference between somebody with a sense of morality vs somebody with a sense of self superiority is somebody who is moral is able to call out their friends as well as their enemies. Moral accountability means holding people to their actions. Doing something wrong for the right reasons doesnt make it no longer the wrong thing to do. Using bigotry to fight bigotry only means that while you might be a better person, you arent by much and still a bad person to those who do not do such actions.
👁 29/mai./2021 às 19:08 
Escrito originalmente por maestro:
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Are you arguing that there aren't incompetent cis white men in corner offices?

My argument is that them being cis white men has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not they are incompetent.

Except for the fact that for historical and institutional reasons Cis White Men are more likely to have opportunities regardless of personal competence.

Escrito originalmente por maestro:
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis white men in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis white women in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis black men in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent cis black women in corner offices.
I'm sure there are some incompetent trans men in corner offices.

But because of things like institutional prejudices, heredity, a history of disenfranchisement and what have you, Cis White Men are far more likely to have corner offices regardless of whether or not they're the most competent.

Escrito originalmente por maestro:
Race, Gender, and Sexuality DO NOT MATTER whether or not someone is incompetent.

But race gender and sexuality affect the consequences, not just of competence but of many things. You did the 13/50 meme just a little while ago pal.
Última edição por 👁; 29/mai./2021 às 19:09
maestro 29/mai./2021 às 19:14 
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Except for the fact that for historical and institutional Cis White Men are more likely to have opportunities regardless of personal competence.

But because of things like institutional prejudices, heredity, a history of disenfranchisement and what have you, Cis White Men are far more likely to have corner offices regardless of whether or not they're the most competent.

I was wondering when you were going to whip out the inherited victimhood card.

Bravo.

I knew you were going to play that sooner or later, and here we go.

Are you trying to tell me, that non-cis white people are the only people who come out of bad households, who have it rough?

I hope that's not what you're saying because anybody could pull up a list of people who, against all odds, came from poverty-stricken households and made a name for themselves, some of them white, some of them black, asian, what-have-you.

ANYBODY can do it, it takes a mixture of luck, perseverance, determination, and other things.

It doesn't matter what your ancestors went through, this is YOUR life. Sure, if you were born with a silver spoon, you have it easy. But some people who rose up from rags, were able to ascend to riches.

So can you, under the right situations.

There have also been children of rich people living on the streets homeless.

The important part is... stop being a victim and stop blaming everything else for your hardships. Stop sitting on the side of the street crying about "patriarchal society", "white supremacy", and "oppression", get off your butt, and MAKE SOMETHING of yourself.

Be a boon to society, not some internet keyboard warrior and maybe, just maybe, society will love you and you will succeed in life.

But race gender and sexuality affect the consequences, not just of competence but of many things. You did the 13/50 meme just a little while ago pal.

I didn't "do" anything, I only listed it as an example of things people say.
OsKhan 29/mai./2021 às 19:28 
I can't imagine being turned off a game because of the ethnicity of a voice, or the gender/race of npcs (and their partners). Honestly?
maestro 29/mai./2021 às 19:30 
Escrito originalmente por OsKhan:
I can't imagine being turned off a game because of the ethnicity of a voice, or the gender/race of npcs (and their partners). Honestly?

Badly written stories, in a game that tried to shift the focus towards having more story is a perfectly valid reason for being turned off on a game. Regardless of what exactly is IN the story, if a player does not like the story in a game that has made the story more of a focus of the game, then the player isn't going to like the game by extension. Or at least, they won't like it anywhere near as well as they should otherwise.

Similarly, a voiced PDA that gives you voiced hints, if it is difficult to understand, it can become a distraction during gameplay, and it can be annoying and irritating, especially when you hear it on a regular basis.
Última edição por maestro; 29/mai./2021 às 19:31
Markus Reese 29/mai./2021 às 19:44 
Escrito originalmente por OsKhan:
I can't imagine being turned off a game because of the ethnicity of a voice, or the gender/race of npcs (and their partners). Honestly?
Maestro summed it up well. Disliking because it exists? Then yeah. Said hater is a bigot. However if it becomes forced into narration not for purposes of story development, but instead at expense of it just to make said viewer aware? Then it can really spoil the experience, or potentially even come off as false empathy/dishonest.
Widgey 29/mai./2021 às 20:08 
Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
Escrito originalmente por OsKhan:
I can't imagine being turned off a game because of the ethnicity of a voice, or the gender/race of npcs (and their partners). Honestly?
Maestro summed it up well. Disliking because it exists? Then yeah. Said hater is a bigot. However if it becomes forced into narration not for purposes of story development, but instead at expense of it just to make said viewer aware? Then it can really spoil the experience, or potentially even come off as false empathy/dishonest.

How is it forced in?
👁 29/mai./2021 às 20:13 
Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Are you arguing that there aren't incompetent cis white men in corner offices?

Whether there are or are not is separate from the need to specify that specific group. So go ahead, go on twitter and say the inverse, see what happens. "Well its true, there could be..."

That is profiling. Bringing attention and blame to a singular group or ethnicity. Avoiding the fact doesnt make it less relevant. "The stereotyping is okay because there are some that fall into that stereotype" is the argument being made. You are justifying an unjust action because part of the sample fits, but not calling out the problem itself.

I could explain how there are systemic historic and institutional biases favoring the advancement of white men to positions of power, such as heredity being predominately biased in favor of male heirs, and such as the historic disenfranchisement of POC and the institutional disrespect towards and exclusion of females from positions of power. I could explain to you that even today there are companies that have a very misogynistic atmosphere, I could point out that Ubisoft for instance legally defended and actively rewarded a sexual predator for years while silencing his victims, but the sad truth is I doubt any of this would mean anything to you.

Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
As for race, call it what you will, but it exists.

Race is a man made social construct, it's an arbitrary categorization that doesn't exist in nature. I dare you to try to prove otherwise if you're going to continue to sit there and continue to assert that it does.

Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
Back to Nazi party, review history. They were democratically elected into power and garnered popular support.

Hitler and his wing of the party was never elected, Hitler was appointed to power and then appointed people loyal to him, and the socialists and social democrats who actually won the elections he used to get the appointment were killed once they were no longer needed.

Strasserites were massacred in the night of long knives and the remaining socialists with any influence were put to death as slaves on the autobahn writing confused letters to him about how evil men had seized control because they still thought he was one of them, and he never was he was using them from the start.

Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
or conspiracy theories about funding

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a historical fact that you can easily check.

Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
But reality is that they came to power by winning favour due to a party lead with a silver tongue.

They lied about who they were and what they represented, parasitized their ideological rivals, then murdered them.

About the only thing you got right is that they divided the German People against one another, made everyone live in fear of their neighbors, but what's your end goal with that?

Do you mean to imply that I, a bisexual, should align myself with white nationalists who want to lock me in an insane asylum and have me tortured with aversion therapy to try to condition the "gynephilia" out of me? Should I not be critical of people arguing that a homosexual character just existing is problematic because it's "too woke"? Dude I've seen games get huge backlashes just for having cis white women as protagonists and you know what's funny? The arguments haven't changed at all, the only thing that's changed is what they're complaining about being too woke.
Widgey 29/mai./2021 às 20:26 
Escrito originalmente por Widgey:
Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
Maestro summed it up well. Disliking because it exists? Then yeah. Said hater is a bigot. However if it becomes forced into narration not for purposes of story development, but instead at expense of it just to make said viewer aware? Then it can really spoil the experience, or potentially even come off as false empathy/dishonest.

How is it forced in?

Escrito originalmente por twistedmelon:
As for race, call it what you will, but it exists.

Back to Nazi party, review history-

Ah, dude's a nazi race realist, nvm
Última edição por Widgey; 29/mai./2021 às 20:27
👁 29/mai./2021 às 20:34 
Escrito originalmente por maestro:
Escrito originalmente por 😈:
Except for the fact that for historical and institutional Cis White Men are more likely to have opportunities regardless of personal competence.

But because of things like institutional prejudices, heredity, a history of disenfranchisement and what have you, Cis White Men are far more likely to have corner offices regardless of whether or not they're the most competent.

I was wondering when you were going to whip out the inherited victimhood card.

Bravo.

You don't care whether or not a statement is true you only care how you can use it to advance your anti-woke agenda.

Escrito originalmente por maestro:
Are you trying to tell me, that non-cis white people are the only people who come out of bad households, who have it rough?

No but I am telling you that cis white people males in particular are, due to a variety of factors, more likely to be advantaged in ways that have nothing to do with personal merit and tend to land them in positions of power.

I never once implied that all white males are equally advantaged only that being a white male confers advantages. This can't be a difficult concept for you to grasp. Though maybe it is since you threw a 13/50 meme at me.


Escrito originalmente por maestro:
it takes a mixture of luck, perseverance, determination, and other things.

The fact that the deck is stacked helps though.

Escrito originalmente por maestro:
It doesn't matter what your ancestors went through

Yes it does because what your ancestors went through influences the advantages you start with.

You talk as if there's a level playing field. Dude, it's still not level.
pming 29/mai./2021 às 21:33 
Er...ok. Here's a question to the "left" side...as well as the "right" side.
..
Lets just assume that everything said about Cis White Males and "western white misogynistic colonialism" is also true, and that everyone in the world who is non-white is constantly oppressed (either consciously or subconsciously).
..
Ok. So, I, as a 'cis white male', say.... "Yeah. Ok. Lucky me. Now what?"
..
????
..
Seriously. Now what? What would "you" (the SJW/Woke-Left side) suggest I do? What's the end game? What's the desired "goal" or, more importantly, just *HOW* would *YOU* suggest I, and every other cis white male in the world, act/do/behave?
..
I eagerly await your reply. :)
Widgey 29/mai./2021 às 21:48 
Escrito originalmente por pming:
Er...ok. Here's a question to the "left" side...as well as the "right" side.
..
Lets just assume that everything said about Cis White Males and "western white misogynistic colonialism" is also true, and that everyone in the world who is non-white is constantly oppressed (either consciously or subconsciously).
..
Ok. So, I, as a 'cis white male', say.... "Yeah. Ok. Lucky me. Now what?"
..
????
..
Seriously. Now what? What would "you" (the SJW/Woke-Left side) suggest I do? What's the end game? What's the desired "goal" or, more importantly, just *HOW* would *YOU* suggest I, and every other cis white male in the world, act/do/behave?
..
I eagerly await your reply. :)
At the very minimum not throw a ♥♥♥♥ fit when a developer decides to star a woman of color as their protagonist. And not see a push for more representation as this spooky boogeyman that will eat into your quota of white male power fantasies.
👁 29/mai./2021 às 22:07 
Escrito originalmente por pming:
Er...ok. Here's a question to the "left" side...as well as the "right" side.
..
Lets just assume that everything said about Cis White Males and "western white misogynistic colonialism" is also true, and that everyone in the world who is non-white is constantly oppressed (either consciously or subconsciously).
..
Ok. So, I, as a 'cis white male', say.... "Yeah. Ok. Lucky me. Now what?"

I mean the main thing would be not complaining and calling it woke and treating it like a problem every time people who aren't cis white males get any kind of representation.

Like that's the bare minimum right? Just tolerate people who aren't cis white males and treat them like you would anyone else, don't make a big deal about them. We can do that yah?

You probably can right? But some people seem to have a really hard time with it.

Escrito originalmente por pming:
What's the end game?

More representation, more options, greater equality and fairness generally.

To be able to exist in the world without our mere existence being treated like it's political and should be scrutinized. To be able to control our own bodies. For our rights as autonomous individuals not to be in jeopardy.
Lauther 29/mai./2021 às 22:33 
Yeap, totally woke now.
Woke has this curious ability to ruin the rest of the good work with the smaller detail
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Publicado em: 25/mai./2021 às 12:00
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