Below Zero is a pale imitation of what makes Subnautica a masterpiece. It has no terror.

[Kahale]

I would like to start by saying I have seen a lot of comments saying that the first game was a unique masterpiece and because you already experienced that you will never be able to recapture that feeling, I believe that is false. I have beaten Subnautica three times, I have read the wikipedia, I know exactly what monsters are in the game and where they spawn. Even with all that knowledge moving into the open ocean or staring into the inky blackness freaks me out. I would argue that the developers failed to understand what it was that made Subnautica amazing. This is not intended to critique the various failings of Below Zero or any controversial decisions the developers made. Instead, to describe what I consider to be the core error of this game's world-building.

What makes Subnautica great is not the story, the creatures, or the unique setting. It does what very few works of art can do, it makes you feel terror. Unlike horror, terror comes from the imagination, it comes from wondering what is out there; it is the expanding of the mind and the manipulation of our most basic instincts. When you are asked to swim through the kelp forest for the first time and the sunlight dims through the kelp or when you are taking your seamoth into an environment where the view distance is obscured, the game gives you brief peaks of a massive monster far into the ocean. Subnautica asks you to be completely alone in a world full of monsters. It makes you battle the twin forces of need pushing you outward and the deadly unknown pushing you towards safety.

Below Zero on the other hand is full of smiling creatures playfully living their lives, there is a chatty alien talking in your ear, there is a strange hermit, there is easily accessible land. Your motivation for confronting terrifying monsters is not the pressing need to survive and escape but to solve the mystery of your sisters death. No sane person would take the risks you are being asked to take for such a reason. What is worse is that the world is not some open ocean with no where to go. Everywhere you look their is safe land to build your home on, everywhere you swim is nicely enclosed environments, every biome is well lit with lots of visual space to see your predators. The game has no interest in teasing out your interactions with these monsters, instead you get a full view of every creature as if the developers are saying "Hey! look what we made." We should not see what you made that is what makes it frightening.

What I find most puzzling is that I in no way came up with these ideas. There are dozens of Youtube videos and hundreds of articles extolling this. It is as if the developers got so wrapped up in their success they failed to examine what it was that made Subnautica great and instead stormed ahead with what they wanted to do with this world. It is a world of cheerful story and lore but there are no demons screaming at you from the dark.

[Andreas]

The developers wanted to make "something different". In that they succeeded.

[Isaak]

I generally agree. What I found especially strange is the deeper you go, the darker it gets.
Not in this game.
But the concept of the void, especially being so close on the map in below zero, really gave me the creeps.
Slowly going deeper and deeper away from your lifepad, suddenly to see the water get pitch black. Then a harsh drop of into nothingness, this is nightmare stuff my buddy. :)

[Spodean]

I believe the frights aren't there mainly because of my 200+ hours in the first one.

I purposefully didn't follow the development of Below Zero whatsoever, didn't do early access this time and have been playing a blind play though, 35+ hours in so far.

I have had a few frights, not as many as I had in the first game but I strongly believe that is just because I am a damned veteran of this hostile planet, I've killed reapers with nothing but a knife. I am now one with my breath meter and am an absolute pro with my 3D direction sense when in the caves. I can assemble a beacon with my eyes closed, If I turn them all on at once my HUD blinds me with information overload, each one a small note of my journey.

Perhaps if someone has played Below Zero before playing the original, they would be having the same frights that we had in the original? There have been a few scares for me, the tentacle plant, the time i was frozen into a block of ice and mercilessly pecked by little red fish as a big disk shaped fish slowly came towards me, the time i thought the leviathan couldn't see me behind a rock pillar and it suddenly rushed me....

This has been an amazing experience for me, the sheer amount of new items in the game, I am always getting surprised by new things. A refrigerator! a recycler! and just an hour ago a personal teleporter!

I understand wishing to have the same feelings in this game as in the old, but I think that just was never going to happen if you are a veteran of the original.

[Kahale]

Getting the teleporter is the moment I decided to write this. You misunderstand, I don't want frights, I want terror. I still get terror from the first one even after beating it. This game fundamentally does not inspire terror effectively.

[JitterBones]

I believe the devs wanted to make the game more based around story than anything else. In the first Subnautica, there's story to be had but in Below Zero we get to hear more about the architects and Altera. Having Allan in the game is another factor as well. The map feels plenty big, but the depth is totally lacking. I think that's where the terror for me comes in, and also from what you expressed. 300 meters down doesn't mean much anymore with all the oxygen plants around. Also, it seems everywhere is lit up like Christmas Eve.

I played the original game not too long ago and added shaders and a bunch of mods. I made the game even darker than it was, to the point that in some areas even in the safe shallows you had to use a flashlight or swim blind. THAT was some scary ♥♥♥♥. I'll be looking forward to the day I can do that to Below Zero and see if I can't make it at least have a piece of that terror from the original.

[Juicy Beefcake]

Originally posted by Kahale:

I don't want frights, I want terror. I still get terror from the first one even after beating it. This game fundamentally does not inspire terror effectively.

I agree completely.
I commented in another post that the developers seem to have made a conscious decision to tighten up all the spaces in this game. There are not really any gaping-maw-of-the-void moments that I've found in BZ. There are some very dark waters, but they're full of friendly giant eyeballs. There are some very murky waters, but there are rocks hanging from whimsical giant lilypads.
They traded the very agoraphobic feel of the first game (staring out into the vast emptiness of the open ocean) for a much more enclosed almost but not quite claustrophobic feeling (squeezing through cracks that your seatruck cant fit through, swimming through meters upon meters of frozen tunnels, etc).
I also still feel that visceral, pit-of-your-stomach fear when playing the first game, even after several play throughs. BZ hasn't done it for me yet and I think I'm pretty close to the end.

[ParrotLord]

agree with the topic 100% - Spoiler Warning

The core gameplay about Subnautica was the survival and the terror about what is lurking in the dephts. what seems like a 1000 different creatures roam around and u have no idea what wants u as a breakfast and what doesnt care about u. Btw most of the animals in SN wanted u as a breakfast.
In BZ, it is the whole other way around: Almost no natural enemies, i think the main areas have only 2 predators: the shark (those are all over the place in every biome it is so boring)- and the bigger, red "lobster" shark. And then there is 1 leviathan creature, the shadow leviathan, which is being used like 4 times in the game, in the 1 path that leads to end.
Evrey biome is perfectly lit, as u say, and additionally: The air Bubble plants EVERYWHERE. u never have to be afraid of suffocating. never ever.
They just took out everything that made this game challenging, and focused on making basically a kids game instead - a little girls birthday party. thats what this game is.

[Juicy Beefcake]

This feels like an expansion, not a new game. I guess it started out as an expansion?
The map feels much smaller and more crowded. The new biomes are novel but smaller and fewer than in the original game. There are a few new toys, none of which are terribly relevant (spy pengu, control room, snow fox - this one is actually bad, I ranted about it in my own post).
They combined the two good unique subs from subnautica into one bad one. I understand to some extent. Tighter spaces, shorter distances, etc. but the seatruck is objectively worse than the cyclops in every way. You could decorate and build stuff inside the cyclops, make it your own. You can attach modules to the sea truck, make it look like a sea hot dog.
You know what would have been super useful for navigating all these cramped tunnels? The cyclops wire-frame radar. How did that not make it into the sea truck?
You know what I thought every time I got into the sea truck before I built any modules? "Man, I wish this was a seamoth instead"
You know what I thought when I got into the sea truck after I had attached several modules?
"Wow...this is hot garbage"
You know what was actually epic and not at all hot garbage?
The friggin' cyclops!!!
I mean, its literally in the name of the game: (SUB)nautica
How can you take away the cool subs and replace them with your neighborhood garbage truck.
/rant

[almost_a_jill_sandwich]

Originally posted by Spodean:

I believe the frights aren't there mainly because of my 200+ hours in the first one.

I purposefully didn't follow the development of Below Zero whatsoever, didn't do early access this time and have been playing a blind play though, 35+ hours in so far.

I have had a few frights, not as many as I had in the first game but I strongly believe that is just because I am a damned veteran of this hostile planet, I've killed reapers with nothing but a knife. I am now one with my breath meter and am an absolute pro with my 3D direction sense when in the caves. I can assemble a beacon with my eyes closed, If I turn them all on at once my HUD blinds me with information overload, each one a small note of my journey.

Perhaps if someone has played Below Zero before playing the original, they would be having the same frights that we had in the original? There have been a few scares for me, the tentacle plant, the time i was frozen into a block of ice and mercilessly pecked by little red fish as a big disk shaped fish slowly came towards me, the time i thought the leviathan couldn't see me behind a rock pillar and it suddenly rushed me....

This has been an amazing experience for me, the sheer amount of new items in the game, I am always getting surprised by new things. A refrigerator! a recycler! and just an hour ago a personal teleporter!

I understand wishing to have the same feelings in this game as in the old, but I think that just was never going to happen if you are a veteran of the original.

It’s disingenuous to reduce the terror elements in SN1 to pure shock value, and doing so shows a big misunderstanding of the mechanics that made SN1 work so well.

The steep descents into nothingness and vast, open dark waters will be terrifying even on my 10th replay. The atmosphere of being completely alone with no chance of rescue... in no way do these elements compare to being frozen by sting rays with ice breath (like really?) or being slightly bothered by some immobile plant


And unfortunately the sheer amount of new items are entirely useless. there are like 6 different beds when beds don’t even do anything. Think the refrigerator will be useful for cooling food? Nah completely useless! I mean I did buy the game because I heard there were going to be aromatherapy lamps, I’ve had so much fun making literally dozens for my base

[Juicy Beefcake]

Originally posted by almost_a_jill_sandwich:

It’s disingenuous to reduce the terror elements in SN1 to pure shock value, and doing so shows a big misunderstanding of the mechanics that made SN1 work so well.

Not everyone has that fear reaction though. Some people have the opposite. There are human beings that dive with sharks. They put themselves in cages and let 2000 lb sea monsters swim around and eye them like the last slice of pie after dinner.

I would rate Subnautica in my top 10 games of the last decade. I have that fear though. That is definitely part of it. I also really like environmental story telling which imo Subnautica did better than any other game I've played that tried it.

[[N63] chrisragnar]

There is no reason a sequel need to be the same thing. It can be it's own thing.
I thought it was a pretty good play.

[Juicy Beefcake]

Originally posted by N63 chrisragnar:

There is no reason a sequel need to be the same thing. It can be it's own thing.
I thought it was a pretty good play.

Of course, that is why The Lost World is about the fabled lost city of Atlantis instead of an island full of genetic freak dinosaurs...
Thats why Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets is about the bunker under area 51 where they keep all the alien fetuses and black goo and not a magical boarding school...
I could go on but I won't.

[Crozz]

♥♥♥♥ yeah my dude. The first one instilled terror in me while Below Zero was a walk in the park and not creepy at all. Among the many things that made me ♥♥♥♥ my pants in the first one are the ecological dead zone warning, the multiple leviathan class lifeforms "are you sure whatever you're doing is worth it" message, the warper message translation on the radio, and many more underwater instances. I even shat my pants with the massive leviathan skeleton in the lost river. Below Zero was just a disappointment in that department and many others. Very lackluster but otherwise solid game in my opinion. A direct downgrade to what they accomplished in the first one.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originally posted by Kahale:

What makes Subnautica great is not the story, the creatures, or the unique setting. It does what very few works of art can do, it makes you feel terror. Unlike horror, terror comes from the imagination, it comes from wondering what is out there; it is the expanding of the mind and the manipulation of our most basic instincts. When you are asked to swim through the kelp forest for the first time and the sunlight dims through the kelp or when you are taking your seamoth into an environment where the view distance is obscured, the game gives you brief peaks of a massive monster far into the ocean. Subnautica asks you to be completely alone in a world full of monsters. It makes you battle the twin forces of need pushing you outward and the deadly unknown pushing you towards safety.

Below Zero on the other hand is full of smiling creatures playfully living their lives, there is a chatty alien talking in your ear, there is a strange hermit, there is easily accessible land. Your motivation for confronting terrifying monsters is not the pressing need to survive and escape but to solve the mystery of your sisters death. No sane person would take the risks you are being asked to take for such a reason. What is worse is that the world is not some open ocean with no where to go. Everywhere you look their is safe land to build your home on, everywhere you swim is nicely enclosed environments, every biome is well lit with lots of visual space to see your predators. The game has no interest in teasing out your interactions with these monsters, instead you get a full view of every creature as if the developers are saying "Hey! look what we made." We should not see what you made that is what makes it frightening.

I will wholeeartedly disagree.

Alan isnt that chatty. actually. The fact you think it is makes me wonder if you're legitly trying to compklain or noit.

The sister's story was Sam's ORIGINAL mission to get to the planet. It is a side story. The main story is related to the architects and the core concepts are still there of subnautica.


This also was a game that was going to expand on lore.. And it did that perfectly fine.


Oh, And subnautica wasnt about 'terrors'.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by CrazyPolack:

I believe the devs wanted to make the game more based around story than anything else. In the first Subnautica, there's story to be had but in Below Zero we get to hear more about the architects and Altera. Having Allan in the game is another factor as well. The map feels plenty big, but the depth is totally lacking. I think that's where the terror for me comes in, and also from what you expressed. 300 meters down doesn't mean much anymore with all the oxygen plants around. Also, it seems everywhere is lit up like Christmas Eve.

I mean, there is nothing wrong in wanting a more story-focused game, but for that to work, the story has to be at the very least decent.
BZ's story isn't decent. Especially Sam's whole story is full of plotholes, like the fact that, instead of trying to administer the cure she made, Sam decided to go for the nuclear option that could have caused a new outbreak and did kill her and one other person.
And that one would have been easy to fix, too, just by having her make two doses, one of which she hid as a backup, and then have her be caught trying to administer the antidote. A fight breaks out and she fell off the platform where she wanted to administer the cure. She broke her neck and Robin still gets a message stating that Sam died as a result of her own negligence.