Why Al An is an evil character **spoilers**

[Coops]

The first time you encounter Al An, he talks to you from his containment box. The facility tells you that power is failing and the mind transfer has to happen right away. "Please hurry" he says. Yet if you scan the storage device and walk out of the facility it stays powered indefinitely, just like all the other alien facilities. He lied.
He tricks you into providing your brain as his receptacle making you think he wants to use your PDA.
Lets look at his past history, which you learn near the end of the game.
He was in charge of the Architect presence on the planet and was directly responsible for the Kharaa bacterium being released into the environment. This happened because he was experimenting on the unborn offspring of the gentle and majestic Emperor Leviathan which he imprisoned for over a thousand years. The Nazis would have been proud.
Once the contagion got out, he fled to the pole and saved himself while his coworkers died.
Inside Robin's mind, he used her to loot the bodies of his former associates to build himself a new body.
He does not tell Robin the whole story until he was safe in a new body because he feared she might sacrifice herself for the good of the galaxy and kill them both.
Nothing he did was good for anyone but himself and some of it was downright evil.

[PhailRaptor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

Both the sea emperor and the Architects are telepathic. Al An speaks to you telepathically several times and humans can interact with the Sea emperor telepathically. You have to invent some assumed technical difficulty for them NOT to communicate. More likely she refused to speak with Al An et al. because "they did not swim with the current". In other words, he was evil and she hated him.

Can you point me towards a concrete source where the Architects are noted as being telepathic? As far as I can tell, all of their technology operates on basically Bluetooth, like wireless headphones. It's just that instead of having headphones, it's an extra microchip on the computer part of their cybernetic brain.

It's also not "inventing some assumed technical difficulty" to say that they may not be compatible. Or are you saying that in the Star Trek universe, it's "some assumed difficulty" that Betazoids can't communicate telepathically with Ferengi? Because on more than one occasion this is brought up in the show. And the Ferengi were not the only race that Betazoids were unable to communicate with. In fact, it's even likely that the Architects never acquired that evolutionary ability, because they integrated wireless communication into their machine parts very early and had no need for a biological analog.

It's also clear from her dialog that the Sea Emperor was able to read them telepathically, but unable to communicate with them telepathically. She was fully aware of what the Architects were trying to do -- hatch her eggs. Further, it sounds like she entered the Primary Containment Facility willingly, rather than being duped or captured. She knew that it was extremely important that she comply, and in fact it was to the benefit of her children for her to do so, to ensure their hatching. Given her control over the Stalkers and Bonesharks in the PCF, not to mention her ability to puppetmaster the entire population of Peepers on the planet to keep her and the biosphere alive, she must have also known how important it was to the planet that her eggs hatch. Quite a few of these details would not have been possible if she couldn't read them -- or at least, the biological parts of their brains.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

Your entire argument is based on pointing out that Al An didn't do OTHER evil things.
Pointing to evil things he could have done but did not is not a valid argument. Evil people can fail to do every little evil thing they are capable of, but that does not make them good.
And, I did not say all the aliens were evil, just Al An.

You are still making the assumption that Al-An lied about where he was downloading himself. You are the one making the extraordinary claim that Al-An knew the difference between Robin's brain and her PDA. You need to demonstrate it, either through a quote or other reference. Because so far you haven't done this. You jump straight to the part where he's a rapist because he entered her brain and lied to do it. There is no indication that this is true, and in fact, quite a bit to indicate the opposite. He was under the impression that humans were also cybernetic life forms like himself, rather than discreetly biological entities making use of machinery.

If you intend to keep asserting this claim, provide support for it.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

It makes more sense to think he was a bad guy who tried to wipe out his people and they imprisoned him whereupon he lies and makes nice to get help from a hapless Human.

Are we even talking about the same game here? What makes you think he intentionally tried to wipe out his people? What makes you think he was imprisoned?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Milk, Curdled of the Cartons:

There are too many factors as to why Al-An's sanctuary was dying, so ruling it out that he was purposely imprisoned for being "evil" is just a fan throwing their headcanon in to fill where they think gaps are located.

We actually do know why Al-An's Sanctuary is failing. We see it when we take the winding path around on the ground, below the shattered bridge. A part of the ceiling collapsed and completely destroyed the primary power connection to the Alien Thermal Plant, resulting in the Sanctuary running on emergency back-up power for who even knows how long. The little repair bots could do nothing about it, which resulted in Al-An's crisis and the need for the distress call that brought first Alterra, then later Robin, to the Sanctuary.

[admiral1018]

I definitely never got the impression that the Sea Emperor went along with the architects willingly. Quite the opposite, this is what she says:

We have been here so long.
The others built a passage to reach the world outside.
I asked them for this freedom, but they could not hear me.
If you help us, I will give you freely what the others tried in vain to take.

This is what the others could not force from me.
To you, I give the secret willingly.

AL-AN also stole Sea Dragon eggs, obviously against the permission of the mother given that she destroyed the disease research center to get it back.

And let's not gloss over the fact that the precursors have a Doomsday device in the QEP, which is capable of destroying large portions of solar systems. This is is addition to the QEP that indiscriminately kills everything without giving sufficient warning.

It might be a stretch to call the precursors outright "evil" based on the first game, but they were certainly closer to that end of the spectrum based on everything we learn.

[Bassilth]

Al-An obtained the sea dragon eggs, hoping to examine them and learn the hatching process so that it would help him hatching out the emperor eggs. Yes, he disobeyed the directive of his network and it was a huge gamble but he saw no progress in the path they were following. As such, he probably believed that such a risk must be taken to achieve a possible breakthrough. If the cautious method does not work, then sometimes you have to think and act outside the box to solve problems.

Al-An thought outside the box to achieve a breakthrough and entered a gamble... only to lose. He was well aware of this and tries to make amends for the actions he made.

The fact that the Architects possess weapons, like the QEP and Doomsday device is no direct evidence of their evil nature. The QEP for example is clearly a defense mechanism, meant to protect other planets from the bacterium. The Architects obviously would possess weapons and tools that were meant to destroy in order to protect themselves from other hostile space-faring races that are out there and from hostile wildlife.

Think about this... Some humans have weapons at home. Does this mean those humans go out every day to slaughter people because they are evil? Or do they have those weapons at home to defend themselves if the need arises?

[Coops]

When Robin gets close to the storage cube, the facility says something like "suitable storage medium found" She says Oh, you want my PDA? Al An rapidly changes the subject and urges her to hurry. He never says, "no I actually want to use your brain." Why? Because she might say no and he'd be screwed. So is that a nice thing or a not nice thing?
Just before the transfer, she holds up the PDA. The transfer is painful and she passes out briefly. Al An makes a snarky comment like Oh, does your kind make a distinction between flesh and cybernetics? Too bad, get used to it. Not actually an apology.

Both the facility and Al An speak to her. Is it telepathy or are they using the PDA? The PDA is not a two way communicator. In the first game you had a separate radio but could not get messages on the PDA. The messages here are not in the Indian accent of the PDA but the alien's own voice. Or, there could be alien speakers in the walls of the facility. But that does not account for other times Al An speaks to you even after you make his body and he has left your head and you are outside the fabricator facility.

If you make Al An's body then go to Outpost zero for the first time, he speaks to you about Sam even though he is not inside your head anymore. I think he also will do it at the frozen leviathan. How is he doing that? (It is possible that they fixed this at launch, but not while I was playing in early access. I actually F8'd that issue.)

As for my assumptions... They are just as valid as assuming he is a good guy with an alien sense of morals. You guys are too trusting. Bad guys don't start off a relationship with "Hey by the way, I'm an evil SOB", You have to infer it from their actions.

[PhailRaptor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

When Robin gets close to the storage cube, the facility says something like "suitable storage medium found" She says Oh, you want my PDA? Al An rapidly changes the subject and urges her to hurry. He never says, "no I actually want to use your brain." Why? Because she might say no and he'd be screwed. So is that a nice thing or a not nice thing?

I'm still waiting for you to source this clear idea you have that Al-An is aware that she isn't a cyborg like he is. You keep using this as the defining point of your argument, but have yet to substantiate it.

Also keep in mind that if he doesn't transfer out of the Sanctuary before it loses power, he ceases to exist. Robin is quite likely has last resort. Chances are he's doing the equivalent of panicking. Have you never made an honest and probably really stupid mistake before while you were panicking?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

Just before the transfer, she holds up the PDA. The transfer is painful and she passes out briefly. Al An makes a snarky comment like Oh, does your kind make a distinction between flesh and cybernetics? Too bad, get used to it. Not actually an apology.

Again, you accuse Al-An of being evil -- in this case being snarky -- but fail to provide any evidence to back up your claim. He also never never made any backhanded statements like you suggest, either. The only thing he does say is that it's impossible for him to return to the Sanctuary. For which he immediately provides an alternative -- help him build a new body so he can exit her brain, because that's the only option open to them.

Unless you can suggest an alternative?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

Both the facility and Al An speak to her. Is it telepathy or are they using the PDA? The PDA is not a two way communicator. In the first game you had a separate radio but could not get messages on the PDA. The messages here are not in the Indian accent of the PDA but the alien's own voice. Or, there could be alien speakers in the walls of the facility. But that does not account for other times Al An speaks to you even after you make his body and he has left your head and you are outside the fabricator facility.

Wild, revolutionary concept, so stay with me here, but.... what if the body *also* has speakers? >shocked face<

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

If you make Al An's body then go to Outpost zero for the first time, he speaks to you about Sam even though he is not inside your head anymore. I think he also will do it at the frozen leviathan. How is he doing that? (It is possible that they fixed this at launch, but not while I was playing in early access. I actually F8'd that issue.)

Can't comment on this, as I never experienced it. I completed the Sam story while Al-An was in Robin's head.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

As for my assumptions... They are just as valid as assuming he is a good guy with an alien sense of morals. You guys are too trusting. Bad guys don't start off a relationship with "Hey by the way, I'm an evil SOB", You have to infer it from their actions.

I have no idea where you're going with this. What else are we talking about, other than his actions? The only thing that's clear from this discussion is that you have a significantly darker view of the people around you than we do. I thought I had trust issues, but I guess I was wrong.

[YertyL]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

I'm still waiting for you to source this clear idea you have that Al-An is aware that she isn't a cyborg like he is. You keep using this as the defining point of your argument, but have yet to substantiate it.

ALAN is supposed to be a leading biologist. The first game even strongly hints at architects studying humans. He should be very, very aware that most, if not all species that are not architects are not cyborgs.
This to me is a bit like saying "I need a source for the statement that a human biology professor would not assume chimps wear glasses"

This is tied to another problem: ALAN is written exactly like a robot. Lots and lots of the quirky "I do not get this organic concept" shtick, which really does not make a lot of sense for a biologist (!) from an organic species. E.g. not getting the concept of an individual makes sense for a geth from mass effect (or borg from ST), who is a member of a mechanical swarm intelligence that is mostly unconcerned with organics. It does not make sense here, unless the architects were insect-like swarms from the beginning -- but even then you would assume that especially a biologist would have realized that most organic beings are not.

[PhailRaptor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von YertyL:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

I'm still waiting for you to source this clear idea you have that Al-An is aware that she isn't a cyborg like he is. You keep using this as the defining point of your argument, but have yet to substantiate it.

ALAN is supposed to be a leading biologist. The first game even strongly hints at architects studying humans. He should be very, very aware that most, if not all species that are not architects are not cyborgs.
This to me is a bit like saying "I need a source for the statement that a human biology professor would not assume chimps wear glasses"

This is tied to another problem: ALAN is written exactly like a robot. Lots and lots of the quirky "I do not get this organic concept" shtick, which really does not make a lot of sense for a biologist (!) from an organic species. E.g. not getting the concept of an individual makes sense for a geth from mass effect (or borg from ST), who is a member of a mechanical swarm intelligence that is mostly unconcerned with organics. It does not make sense here, unless the architects were insect-like swarms from the beginning -- but even then you would assume that especially a biologist would have realized that most organic beings are not.

A few things...

A) We don't know what kind of biologist Al-An is. We can assume, since he was in charge of the Kharaa project on 4546B, that he was a specialist focusing almost exclusively on diseases, whether they be viral or bacterial. That's rather different from an animal behaviorist observing chimps to determine whether they have entered the stone age or not (a legitimate question that is being asked right now IRL). We can certainly hope that he'd be generally educated in the adjacent fields of study (broader Biology), but we should also be aware that medical doctors and nurses, who have spent almost a decade in medical school, are currently pushing vaccine misinformation while we fail to effectively deal with a global pandemic (all of it is Medicine).

B) The Sea Dragon attack on the Disease Research Facility was at least 1,000 years ago. An indeterminate period of time before that, the Kharaa bacterium was encountered by The Architects. An indeterminate period of time before that, The Architect society shed their dependence on a physical form, allowing themselves to exist in either a physical shell body, or as disembodied consciousness inside a storage medium. We can assume they made the push into cybernetic organisms an indeterminate period prior to this point. It could literally have been a million years in their history when these technological breakthroughs occurred. It's not even a little bit surprising that they have no memories of being purely biological. As a metaphor, the ability to make fire was one of the critical developments of the human race that allowed us to eventually advance to where we are today. And yet, if you asked a random person off the street to start a fire without matches or a lighter, do you think they'd be able to do it? And that's only a few thousand years in our history.

C) We don't know enough about The Architect society or their total knowledge base to know how they define things like sentient life or sapient life. The studies of Earth they conducted in the past, as evidenced by the sword in the display case in the Primary Containment Facility, could just as easily have been studies of what they'd define as a lower life form. The same way most people look at chimpanzees. We don't have enough insight into how The Architects define things like intelligent life to know whether or not they'd even consider a purely biological life form to be developed enough to meet that definition. It's not unlike recent encounters anti-poaching forces have had with Mountain Gorillas. While searching for poacher snares to dismantle them, they have recently been stopped by the gorillas, who dismantle the traps themselves. That sort of behavior has been a complete shock, and is causing those who study great apes to revise their view of them. Simply put, nobody thought the gorillas were capable of safely dismantling poacher traps, let alone the intention to stop people from falling victim to those traps.

I will happily concede, though, that a lot of the story of Below Zero is poorly written. Probably as a result of the creative team being upended half way through development, and completely changing half the features of the story as a result. But I find that to be kinda tangential to the question of Al-An's supposed evilness.

[Bassilth]

I would like to add to PhailRaptor (love your comments man, btw) that more than 1000 years passed since the Architects were on Earth. It is safe to assume that Al-An wasnt sure how far humans developed since then. All he knew the humans now have cybernetic components like Architects or something similar but in a more primitive way. Everyone sees technological advances from their standpoint. For an Architect, the appearance of technology among humans could be equal to the union of biology and technology. Maybe Architects never had separate technology from their bodies and always added them to their organic components. Hence why he made the assumptions that her cybernetic components and her biological components were connected.

Yes, this is also an assumption but that is the conclusion I come to when I look at Al-An's dialogues.

[Coops]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

I'm still waiting for you to source this clear idea you have that Al-An is aware that she isn't a cyborg like he is. You keep using this as the defining point of your argument, but have yet to substantiate it.

AlAn's people have been to Earth, he had a chance to study the Alterra people. He uses a Human SOS signal to attract attention. He knows about Humans.
Why do I have to substantiate my impressions when you simply state an opposite one with no more proof. You swallow Al An's story whole with no skepticism at all.
I don't care whether he thinks she a cyborg or not. The point is that HE doesn't care.
It does not matter to him since she is just a vessel to be used and discarded. As he gets to know her he may reevaluate that. Maybe he has other plans he needs her for.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

Also keep in mind that if he doesn't transfer out of the Sanctuary before it loses power, he ceases to exist. Robin is quite likely has last resort. Chances are he's doing the equivalent of panicking. Have you never made an honest and probably really stupid mistake before while you were panicking?

What's your proof of this? Just because he says so? Again, you are trusting an alien you say is inscrutable. Equally likely is he was imprisoned and is lying through his teeth to escape. Like I said, the sanctuary does not disappear if you simply leave without downloading.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

Again, you accuse Al-An of being evil -- in this case being snarky -- but fail to provide any evidence to back up your claim. He also never never made any backhanded statements like you suggest, either. The only thing he does say is that it's impossible for him to return to the Sanctuary. For which he immediately provides an alternative -- help him build a new body so he can exit her brain, because that's the only option open to them.

Unless you can suggest an alternative?

And you believe him? How gullible can you get? Would a criminal lie about not being able to go back and you really have to drop everything, risk your life and give up looking for your sister to help him? Sure he would.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

Wild, revolutionary concept, so stay with me here, but.... what if the body *also* has speakers? >shocked face<

Speakers that work over kilometers? Did you read what I said?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

I have no idea where you're going with this. What else are we talking about, other than his actions? The only thing that's clear from this discussion is that you have a significantly darker view of the people around you than we do. I thought I had trust issues, but I guess I was wrong.

Its not people we are talking about. This is an alien with very different ethics and life experiences. We may not be able to understand him at all. Keeping an open mind in that situation is the way to go. Not blindingly believing everything he says.
And do you understand what his actions were? Experimenting on babies, imprisoning a sentient being, invading a sentient's brain, disobeying orders and releasing the khaara, shooting down and killing scores of Humans. And you are telling us that your overall impression of Al An, is that he is a great guy? An ET trying to phone home?
Naive at best.

[Bassilth]

The problem, Coops, that you are bringing up a theory that is not supported or hinted by the game in any way, shape or form. Obviously one can theorize and brainstorm, but those are just ideas, not proof.

Your claim needs proof. Something where the game hinted that Al-An is evil or at least has ulterior motives.

We have already explained, repeatedly why the Architects did what they did, how they did it and for what purpose. They were desperate for a cure and were ready to do all that it took to get it. They were not aware that the Emperor was able to communicate and the creatures on the planet are animals, test subjects for them just as humans view mice and rats. Just to say a few you may have missed.

These are what we know, what the game showed us. Everything else is speculation and assumption. Not proof. I agree that speculating is fun -I like to do it myself- but dont go overboard and do not consider these assumptions the truth.

[admiral1018]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

If you make Al An's body then go to Outpost zero for the first time, he speaks to you about Sam even though he is not inside your head anymore. I think he also will do it at the frozen leviathan. How is he doing that? (It is possible that they fixed this at launch, but not while I was playing in early access. I actually F8'd that issue.)

Yeah, this is a bug. If you rush through the AL-AN stuff before doing any of the Sam stuff, he'll still talk to you at all the same points (in addition to the ones you mentioned, he'll comment after meeting Marguerit for the first time at Delta Island if he's out of your head).

[The Milk Daddy]

I like how this Coops person is using what is obviously game-play oversights that lead to out of lore sequence breaking. Lmao I'm doing a playthrough where I try to avoid going to Al-An or Marg to see how far I can get before I hit a brick wall in story progression.

Just because I don't pick up Al-An and allow him to "rape" me and continue the story doesn't mean that it's lore intended to do so. Also the whole ♥♥♥♥ about using the idea of him still talking to you via "telepathy" despite him no longer being in your head is once again, a gameplay oversight (SHOCKING AM I RIGHT?). If I noclip into a location I'm not supposed to be in yet and I activate a dialogue trigger does that mean Al-An was in my head from the very beginning as I JUST land on the planet? By your logic, then yes- Which is just silly to think.

Man, I can't wait for some lousy debunking of everyone's statements here to be seen as false whilst your theories are to be gospel.

I really hope Coops is just trolling and not actually believing what they are saying, it makes me worry about humanity...

[Coops]

Here is the lore.
Al AN shoots down the Degasi, the Aurora, the Sunbeam and the Neptune II killing untold people with no warning. You might say its quarantine enforcement. But Quarantine means not letting anyone leave, it does not mean killing people trying to enter. You warn them off or let them land but not leave. You might say that was not Al An, but he was in charge.

Al An imprisons the Sea Emperor with her eggs, experiments on a fetus and she still refuses to help, but she will help Riley. Why is that? Because she hated the architects so much she would sacrifice herself and her family before helping them. They must really be bad for her to do that.

Al An disobeys a direct order and it results in Khaara infecting the whole planet. He alone survives by allegedly uploading himself. Meanwhile all of his comrades die in various ways and I guess there was only one storage cube, so Mr self importance takes it for himself.

Al An tricks a Human into being his vessel. Call it a misunderstanding if you want but Robin was not at all happy. She felt tricked and the victim has to be heard, right? If it was Bill Cosby doing that you would have no trouble believing it.

Does this guy ever do anything right for the whole game that is not self serving, arrogant, dismissive or plain stupid? You are hard pressed to believe he was a leading scientist from an advanced civilization.

Its almost like he was cut off from the network on purpose, thrown into storage, and left to contemplate his sins.

[The Milk Daddy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Coops:

Here is the lore.
Al AN shoots down the Degasi, the Aurora, the Sunbeam and the Neptune II killing untold people with no warning. You might say its quarantine enforcement. But Quarantine means not letting anyone leave, it does not mean killing people trying to enter. You warn them off or let them land but not leave. You might say that was not Al An, but he was in charge.

Al An imprisons the Sea Emperor with her eggs, experiments on a fetus and she still refuses to help, but she will help Riley. Why is that? Because she hated the architects so much she would sacrifice herself and her family before helping them. They must really be bad for her to do that.

Al An disobeys a direct order and it results in Khaara infecting the whole planet. He alone survives by allegedly uploading himself. Meanwhile all of his comrades die in various ways and I guess there was only one storage cube, so Mr self importance takes it for himself.

Al An tricks a Human into being his vessel. Call it a misunderstanding if you want but Robin was not at all happy. She felt tricked and the victim has to be heard, right? If it was Bill Cosby doing that you would have no trouble believing it.

Does this guy ever do anything right for the whole game that is not self serving, arrogant, dismissive or plain stupid? You are hard pressed to believe he was a leading scientist from an advanced civilization.

Its almost like he was cut off from the network on purpose, thrown into storage, and left to contemplate his sins.

Hey look! Still no evidence for your claims

[Coops]

There are no claims in that post, just facts and possible interpretations.
On the other hand, you claim that Al An is a misunderstood alien with a good heart. I have no idea where that comes from. Everything he has done taken together proves that he is a monster.