(Spoilers) Plot holes?

[Wertologist]

Ok so I just finished the game(or at least everything that's in the current version) and there are some issues I've seen regarding the story that aren't really explained well.

First being Marguerit. How in the hell is she still alive? She crashed in the Crater 10 years prior to the first game and was infected with the Kharaa. Nobody survives that. It kills everyone and everything. The cure wasn't even available until 10 years later when the S1 protag helped the Emperor hatch her eggs. Little bits of the enzyme were released with Peepers, but not enough to actually make a difference, let alone long term. According to the wiki, the enzymes produced by the Emperor were not strong enough to cure the Kharaa and only temporarily dealt with it. Those enzymes were only barely spread around by Peepers through the vents, but those vents only were in the Crater. So how was she able to fend off Kharaa with no cure? The Kharaa wasn't just in the Crater either. It was all over the planet. We know this because the frozen leviathan was infected. Peepers also wouldn't likely migrate from the Crater all the way through the Void, and all the way to the arctic so carrying the enzyme that far wouldn't be feasible.

Her survival really doesn't make much sense in that regard. She's just magically cured of Kharaa within those 10 years. I know it says that the Kharaa has different effects on people like sometimes it shows up within an hour and then some it shows up later, but come on. We know she was infected. The PDAs from the Degasi survivors clearly state they were all infected. Her fending off the Kharaa which had killed billions before her for 10 years seems impossible

Then there's her whole reaper situation. How did she manage to kill one with her knife, FLOAT with it all the way to the top, then survive on it while slowly drifting through the void and all the way to the arctic? Anything that enters the Void will piss off the Ghost Leviathans as they are extremely territorial. I doubt they'd see a reaper floating around and not try to attack it when just barely swimming near the edge will rile them up. I find it incredibly hard to believe that they didn't attack it as it slowly drifted all the way to the arctic. I'm not sure how she manage to drift around a whole planet with only 2 bottles of water either, but that's a different issue.

Then there's the question of how she survived when she got there. She clearly states that all she had on her was 2 bottles of water and her repair tool....but she manages to survive in the arctic for 10 years. By her own admission, she didn't have the habitat builder so she couldn't have built shelter and Alterra wouldn't get there for another 10 years so she couldn't steal one from them. How did she survive in an arctic environment by herself for 10 years? Doesn't seem possible and there's no real explanation from what I can see.

Moving on from her, the next plot hole would be the Kharaa. It becomes a huge plot point that your sister was trying to develop a cure for it, put the cure into the leviathan and prevent Alterra from experimenting with it. The plot hole comes from what she was hoping to achieve. To assume that Alterra, a massive corporation, wouldn't have immediately taken samples and shipped them off world for safe keeping or further research is ridiculous. I get that the planet is out of the way, but they already made it clear that Alterra did swing by from time to time to either drop off stuff or do other crap. So she wanted to cure the creature so they wouldn't get the Kharaa....even though they clearly already extracted it as evidenced by the Omega lab. It'd be ridiculous to say that Alterra didn't take samples off-world for safekeeping.

One minor nitpick relating to the frozen leviathan though. You administer the antidote to it through an injector and it immediately clears up all Kharaa from the body. The problem with this is that the damn thing has been frozen for thousands of years. It wouldn't have a thawed bloodstream and its heart wouldn't be beating so pumping that stuff around the body would not work. Small little nitpick, but it still doesn't make any sense, but I can ignore it for simplicities sake. It would probably be better if they had you just destroy the whole leviathan or somehow revive it in order to cure it so it would at least make sense as to why a liquid antidote managed to flow through a frozen bloodstream

[*|PEZ|* Merivio]

She didn't live in the reaper for 10 years, she lived in the arctic for 10 years, or did I miss something?

[SertanDoom]

Originally posted by Wertologist:

Originally posted by SquidBob:

She's the Subnautica version of Chuck Norris- The Khara caught a case of her and died.

She probably had her PDA with her- and it had plans for the builder tool. I'm more wondering why if she's on the outs with Alterra that she has at least one base out in the open...

Even if the recipe was on her PDA, you can't craft anything without a fabricator and she clearly stated all the had was the repair tool, not a habitat builder. So she wouldn't be able to create any fabricator to use to create a habitat builder either. So she'd be unable to build shelter. So she would have had to survive in the arctic for 10 years

Fair point- thing is if she's here there are currents that will bring things to this location (wreckage, cargo boxes..Etc). Things washed up on shore in real life tend to amaze people. Also there's at least one wreck she could have searched for stuff in the area. Food and water I think we dealt with on an older build of the game by eating creepvine and its fruit - she could have done the same. She could have been in improvised shelters until Alterra showed up with stuff to steal (or maybe acquire from Sam). Possible materials she has been observed with leviathan parts, stalker fur...Native peoples of Alaska could probably use those to make shelter and more.

[Sputnik]

I think it's now fair to admit that Subnautica is no longer a franchise that is offering much in the way of deep narrative or backstory. Despite the first game showing heaps of potential .

Below Zero skates over all that in favour of a focus upon great graphics and an easy gameplay. Sure it's still pretty, but it seems now it's pitched pretty exclusively to a young adult audience.

If you want logic or depth in narrative, then sadly you'll probably need to look elsewhere.

[SertanDoom]

Originally posted by dragonbornzyra:

Originally posted by *|PEZ|* Venima:

She figured out a way of cooking though. Cooked fish provides some hydration, maybe she was able to extract the pure water from bladderfish.

The only life in the Void were Maco and Micro organisms and a rotting Reaper corpse.

Unless you're talking about her being in Sector Zero.

If she found a way to get hydration it would most likely be from local flora/fruit.

And to get enough fruit to meet her hydration requirements I imagine Maida would be more of a thiccer body figure, to help her with the cold too.

She could have stolen a Habitat from Alterra to make her base but that's a decade and a year with change after all this happened so.....

The right answer is swallow the B I G hard pill and just remove Maida from the game.

There's just so little content left cutting more content sounds like non sense.

But this is what happens when you bank so much of your products success on a few quesitonable variables instead of going with the sure and steady.

They went through the time money resources and effort to put her in, animate her model, pay her voice actor, and have lines written for her, for all of that to be of poor quality out side of the VA?

That stings.

That's like a place called "Chicken Wings" not having good Chicken Wings and not offering anything else other than fries or cole slaw as sides and maybe a salad on Fridays.

If Below Zero is swinging heavy relying on their story, they sure put their eggs in the wrong basket.

Happens when your original story was based on a plot point that was far too subtle for many/most of the players and you need a quick rewrite. Isolation by keeping secrets.

[Buddy Boi]

The lady thats the new PDA voice saved her

[*|PEZ|* Merivio]

Originally posted by delynkirstein:

The lady thats the new PDA voice saved her

And in return Marguerit stuck her into a PDA?! Forever to give out oxygen warnings... This Marguerit is a real piece of work...

[dragonbornzyra]

Originally posted by *|PEZ|* Venima:

Originally posted by delynkirstein:

The lady thats the new PDA voice saved her

And in return Marguerit stuck her into a PDA?! Forever to give out oxygen warnings... This Marguerit is a real piece of work...

She had little choice. She gave up her body and lungs and organs for Maida. All that was left was her sooooul.

And Maida tapped into her Mary Sue powers to figure out how to put her in the PDA and it's heartwarming <3

[Xautos]

Originally posted by Wertologist:

Ok so I just finished the game(or at least everything that's in the current version) and there are some issues I've seen regarding the story that aren't really explained well.

First being Marguerit. How in the hell is she still alive? She crashed in the Crater 10 years prior to the first game and was infected with the Kharaa. Nobody survives that. It kills everyone and everything. The cure wasn't even available until 10 years later when the S1 protag helped the Emperor hatch her eggs. Little bits of the enzyme were released with Peepers, but not enough to actually make a difference, let alone long term. According to the wiki, the enzymes produced by the Emperor were not strong enough to cure the Kharaa and only temporarily dealt with it. Those enzymes were only barely spread around by Peepers through the vents, but those vents only were in the Crater. So how was she able to fend off Kharaa with no cure? The Kharaa wasn't just in the Crater either. It was all over the planet. We know this because the frozen leviathan was infected. Peepers also wouldn't likely migrate from the Crater all the way through the Void, and all the way to the arctic so carrying the enzyme that far wouldn't be feasible.

Her survival really doesn't make much sense in that regard. She's just magically cured of Kharaa within those 10 years. I know it says that the Kharaa has different effects on people like sometimes it shows up within an hour and then some it shows up later, but come on. We know she was infected. The PDAs from the Degasi survivors clearly state they were all infected. Her fending off the Kharaa which had killed billions before her for 10 years seems impossible

Then there's her whole reaper situation. How did she manage to kill one with her knife, FLOAT with it all the way to the top, then survive on it while slowly drifting through the void and all the way to the arctic? Anything that enters the Void will piss off the Ghost Leviathans as they are extremely territorial. I doubt they'd see a reaper floating around and not try to attack it when just barely swimming near the edge will rile them up. I find it incredibly hard to believe that they didn't attack it as it slowly drifted all the way to the arctic. I'm not sure how she manage to drift around a whole planet with only 2 bottles of water either, but that's a different issue.

Then there's the question of how she survived when she got there. She clearly states that all she had on her was 2 bottles of water and her repair tool....but she manages to survive in the arctic for 10 years. By her own admission, she didn't have the habitat builder so she couldn't have built shelter and Alterra wouldn't get there for another 10 years so she couldn't steal one from them. How did she survive in an arctic environment by herself for 10 years? Doesn't seem possible and there's no real explanation from what I can see.

Could be a mutant gene in Marguerit that gave her some immunity to such things and the small amount of cure from peepers would of been enough to provide significant enough protection to keep the infection at bay, but not eliminate it.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

Moving on from her, the next plot hole would be the Kharaa. It becomes a huge plot point that your sister was trying to develop a cure for it, put the cure into the leviathan and prevent Alterra from experimenting with it. The plot hole comes from what she was hoping to achieve. To assume that Alterra, a massive corporation, wouldn't have immediately taken samples and shipped them off world for safe keeping or further research is ridiculous. I get that the planet is out of the way, but they already made it clear that Alterra did swing by from time to time to either drop off stuff or do other crap. So she wanted to cure the creature so they wouldn't get the Kharaa....even though they clearly already extracted it as evidenced by the Omega lab. It'd be ridiculous to say that Alterra didn't take samples off-world for safekeeping.

Not unless Alterra has strict controls on highly infectious diseases and strains of deadly bacteria. Just because the creature may have been harvested off, doesn't mean Alterra has that data. it might be entirely likely they have a base not far away where it is stored so it can be processed at a highly secured lab somewhere off world. So for all you know it is still on the planet awaiting pick up once all precautions against the virus has been met to prevent the spread of it.

I doubt even Alterra would want to risk spreading the virus where a dying alien species, desperate to prevent an end of their own making who had greater resources and technology failed. Those doomed to ignore history will repeat it.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

One minor nitpick relating to the frozen leviathan though. You administer the antidote to it through an injector and it immediately clears up all Kharaa from the body. The problem with this is that the damn thing has been frozen for thousands of years. It wouldn't have a thawed bloodstream and its heart wouldn't be beating so pumping that stuff around the body would not work. Small little nitpick, but it still doesn't make any sense, but I can ignore it for simplicities sake. It would probably be better if they had you just destroy the whole leviathan or somehow revive it in order to cure it so it would at least make sense as to why a liquid antidote managed to flow through a frozen bloodstream

The injector might contain some kind of fast acting formula that reaches into every cell in the creatures body, looking beyond the macroscopic like blood vessels and organs, and more into individual cells. the frozen water might act as a catalyst to spread the cure at an alarming rate.

This is after all technology into the future where spaceships run from dark matter cores and i suspect that medical technology has advanced just as much. There is no telling how it works.

[dragonbornzyra]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Could be a mutant gene in Marguerit that gave her some immunity to such things and the small amount of cure from peepers would of been enough to provide significant enough protection to keep the infection at bay, but not eliminate it.

If this is the case than Alterra should have been studying her. If she had this gene she'd be resistant to the Khaara and Bart is smart enough to have noticed this. If we assert Maida had a mutant gene, then if that is true it just makes the rest of the story even more inconsistent. The story is written so poorly even your best attempts to fix it just break it more.

I've spent the past two weeks trying to fix the storyline, and even after my best attempts, I go back and it always causes another problem when you fix one.

Not unless Alterra has strict controls on highly infectious diseases and strains of deadly bacteria. Just because the creature may have been harvested off, doesn't mean Alterra has that data. it might be entirely likely they have a base not far away where it is stored so it can be processed at a highly secured lab somewhere off world. So for all you know it is still on the planet awaiting pick up once all precautions against the virus has been met to prevent the spread of it.

I doubt even Alterra would want to risk spreading the virus where a dying alien species, desperate to prevent an end of their own making who had greater resources and technology failed. Those doomed to ignore history will repeat it.

It's speculation on both sides, and that's the result of how atrociously awful the story is written. If what you said is true, that would make Alterra even MORE RESPONSIBLE than Sam. Since Sam and Maida actually put 4546B at "risk" of releasing the Khaara.

In your example, Sam and Maida are even MORE at fault and in the wrong, and Alterra is placed on an even HIGHER pedastal! Which goes in contradiction to the game asserting Sam and Maida are SAINTS and that Alterra is "evil and bad"

Except you seem to over look Xautos, that Enzyme 42 is in the ecosystem from the 5 Juvenile Sea Emp leviathans. Even if they "Released" the Khaara, it's NOT dangerous. It would become inert. Anyone eating any flora or fauna native to 4546B will get Enzyme 42 in their body. What's the point in being safe and using precaution with a bacteria that poses NO THREAT!? So even in both your's and Wert's theories, it doesn't address the logical inconsistent plot.

The injector might contain some kind of fast acting formula that reaches into every cell in the creatures body, looking beyond the macroscopic like blood vessels and organs, and more into individual cells. the frozen water might act as a catalyst to spread the cure at an alarming rate.

This is after all technology into the future where spaceships run from dark matter cores and i suspect that medical technology has advanced just as much. There is no telling how it works.

So why isn't an explanation like that in the game? Why is Jill Murray such an incompetent writer? Why is it the player's responsibility to try to figure out a better story? Why is UWE charging us so much money for this garbage story? It's insulting.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by dragonbornzyra:

Originally posted by Xautos:

Not unless Alterra has strict controls on highly infectious diseases and strains of deadly bacteria. Just because the creature may have been harvested off, doesn't mean Alterra has that data. it might be entirely likely they have a base not far away where it is stored so it can be processed at a highly secured lab somewhere off world. So for all you know it is still on the planet awaiting pick up once all precautions against the virus has been met to prevent the spread of it.

I doubt even Alterra would want to risk spreading the virus where a dying alien species, desperate to prevent an end of their own making who had greater resources and technology failed. Those doomed to ignore history will repeat it.

It's speculation on both sides, and that's the result of how atrociously awful the story is written. If what you said is true, that would make Alterra even MORE RESPONSIBLE than Sam. Since Sam and Maida actually put 4546B at "risk" of releasing the Khaara.

In your example, Sam and Maida are even MORE at fault and in the wrong, and Alterra is placed on an even HIGHER pedastal! Which goes in contradiction to the game asserting Sam and Maida are SAINTS and that Alterra is "evil and bad"

Except you seem to over look Xautos, that Enzyme 42 is in the ecosystem from the 5 Juvenile Sea Emp leviathans. Even if they "Released" the Khaara, it's NOT dangerous. It would become inert. Anyone eating any flora or fauna native to 4546B will get Enzyme 42 in their body. What's the point in being safe and using precaution with a bacteria that poses NO THREAT!? So even in both your's and Wert's theories, it doesn't address the logical inconsistent plot.

I can't answer to the motivations of Alterra or Sam or Marguerit beyond what you already know. While Alterra might very well be evil, but even evil for the sake of evil isn't going to keep them in business for very long, and at some point even they will recognise that what they have is more a threat to their own interests than it is ever going to be useful. There will be something out there so dark and twisted, not even Alterra want to deal with it.

As for the Enzyme 42. the world is massive, a lot of water, currents in the ocean, isolated pockets of water where the enzyme won't reach and so on. there are only 5 of these babies out there on this massive world. even if they swam for the next 50 years spreading the cure around, they wouldn't cover even 1/5 of the planet with the cure.

There is also no way of knowing if the enzyme can go inert itself or the operating temperature it can work in and what effects it has on the enzyme if it is far too hot or far too cold. Like you stated, there isn't a lot in this game to explain everything fully.

[Wertologist]

But if Alterra didn't take more samples away to be safe, why did they take any to begin with? That's a flawed argument you presented. Messing with the Kharaa in any way is dangerous and they were doing it anyways. They even talked about how it could potentially be used in other ways which implies that they will try to repurpose it. So shipping samples off is not a stretch at all. If safety was really a concern, they'd assign more than a single security guard on the whole planet. They'd have a small city built up to study it safely and efficiently, not leave it up to 6 people. So the "safety" argument falls flat and if you really wanted to roll with it anyways, it just creates more plot holes.

For the saying of we don't know how Kharaa handles in the cold, we do know actually. The frozen leviathan is literally proof that it still thrives in the arctic. If it didn't, then the Architects would have figured that out since they'd studied it for many years and the leviathan wouldn't be infected. The Kharaa survived intact while frozen so it has no problems with the cold.

As for "Maida having a mutation", that's so unrealistically improbable that it's not worth even suggesting. If she had a mutation that cured it for her(she was still confirmed to be infected), that means that it would be possible for other life forms to develop a similar mutation. The Architects never found a single life form aside from the Emperor Leviathan that was immune.

As for the Enzyme spreading taking time, we don't really know the growth rate of the Emperor Leviathans. They seem to grow fairly quick and constantly produce the stuff. Once they are large enough, I imagine that they'd produce more of the enzyme and at a more efficient rate. It's not completely unrealistic that they spread the enzyme to other parts of the planet, but that's still a fault on UWE for not properly explaining that. Not a very good look for the story.

As for saying that Alterra stuff may have drifted with the currents all the way to the arctic for Maida to scavenge, that's just laughable. Metal isn't exactly the most buoyant substance out there and to try to imply a random box managed to float harmlessly through the void all the way to the arctic and just happened to have a Habitat Builder, it's laughably unlikely. Plus, Alterra didn't get to the planet until 10 years after so there'd be no boxes of supplies that could possible drift there. The Degasi was also a small ship and wouldn't be carrying much for supplies either. Plus, it's heavily implied that the Degasi survivors already scavenged everything they could from their ship before, which is why we can't find any trace of wreckage. So it's even more unlikely that a crate with a Habitat Builder from the Degasi managed to float around the planet for her to conveniently find in the arctic.

Something else that doesn't make any real sense is how Maida even knew what the Kharaa was. They couldn't identify what it was when they were infected 10 years prior. They just knew that they were sick and dying while trying to find a cure. They didn't have the name or any relevant information on it, so it doesn't make too much sense that she knows this much about it. Maybe she learned after Alterra came, but who told her? Sam? It's heavily implied through Dialogue that she already knew prior to meeting Sam. She talked about how dangerous it was....but then destroys a facility holding samples of it and potentially risking an outbreak of it? What kind of sense is that?

The more I think about the plot, the less sense it makes. The first game's story wasn't perfect, but there really weren't many plot holes. This one seems like it was fanfic written by someone who never really even played the game

[SertanDoom]

Originally posted by Wertologist:

But if Alterra didn't take more samples away to be safe, why did they take any to begin with? That's a flawed argument you presented. Messing with the Kharaa in any way is dangerous and they were doing it anyways. They even talked about how it could potentially be used in other ways which implies that they will try to repurpose it. So shipping samples off is not a stretch at all. If safety was really a concern, they'd assign more than a single security guard on the whole planet. They'd have a small city built up to study it safely and efficiently, not leave it up to 6 people. So the "safety" argument falls flat and if you really wanted to roll with it anyways, it just creates more plot holes.

For the saying of we don't know how Kharaa handles in the cold, we do know actually. The frozen leviathan is literally proof that it still thrives in the arctic. If it didn't, then the Architects would have figured that out since they'd studied it for many years and the leviathan wouldn't be infected. The Kharaa survived intact while frozen so it has no problems with the cold.

As for "Maida having a mutation", that's so unrealistically improbable that it's not worth even suggesting. If she had a mutation that cured it for her(she was still confirmed to be infected), that means that it would be possible for other life forms to develop a similar mutation. The Architects never found a single life form aside from the Emperor Leviathan that was immune.

As for the Enzyme spreading taking time, we don't really know the growth rate of the Emperor Leviathans. They seem to grow fairly quick and constantly produce the stuff. Once they are large enough, I imagine that they'd produce more of the enzyme and at a more efficient rate. It's not completely unrealistic that they spread the enzyme to other parts of the planet, but that's still a fault on UWE for not properly explaining that. Not a very good look for the story.

As for saying that Alterra stuff may have drifted with the currents all the way to the arctic for Maida to scavenge, that's just laughable. Metal isn't exactly the most buoyant substance out there and to try to imply a random box managed to float harmlessly through the void all the way to the arctic and just happened to have a Habitat Builder, it's laughably unlikely. Plus, Alterra didn't get to the planet until 10 years after so there'd be no boxes of supplies that could possible drift there. The Degasi was also a small ship and wouldn't be carrying much for supplies either. Plus, it's heavily implied that the Degasi survivors already scavenged everything they could from their ship before, which is why we can't find any trace of wreckage. So it's even more unlikely that a crate with a Habitat Builder from the Degasi managed to float around the planet for her to conveniently find in the arctic.

Something else that doesn't make any real sense is how Maida even knew what the Kharaa was. They couldn't identify what it was when they were infected 10 years prior. They just knew that they were sick and dying while trying to find a cure. They didn't have the name or any relevant information on it, so it doesn't make too much sense that she knows this much about it. Maybe she learned after Alterra came, but who told her? Sam? It's heavily implied through Dialogue that she already knew prior to meeting Sam. She talked about how dangerous it was....but then destroys a facility holding samples of it and potentially risking an outbreak of it? What kind of sense is that?

The more I think about the plot, the less sense it makes. The first game's story wasn't perfect, but there really weren't many plot holes. This one seems like it was fanfic written by someone who never really even played the game

Haven't been beach combing after a storm have you? Metal can and does wash up.

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/93580/treasure-washed-up-on-beaches

Just depends on how strong the current is. Out of curiosity and because I've kinda forgotten- what's the name of the ship halves in below zero and when did it crash? It does have some crates that appear to be intact. Seems old enough that it may have been some help to the subject of this discussion.

Personally I'm sure we can find answers to individual problems in plot points but as a whole unified piece- things are going to be somewhat disjointed because of the rewrites with a plan to reuse as much as possible.

Right now I'm thinking they should have gone with a "Prequel" to Subnautica with the player taking on the role of Marguerite.

[dragonbornzyra]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Originally posted by dragonbornzyra:

It's speculation on both sides, and that's the result of how atrociously awful the story is written. If what you said is true, that would make Alterra even MORE RESPONSIBLE than Sam. Since Sam and Maida actually put 4546B at "risk" of releasing the Khaara.

In your example, Sam and Maida are even MORE at fault and in the wrong, and Alterra is placed on an even HIGHER pedastal! Which goes in contradiction to the game asserting Sam and Maida are SAINTS and that Alterra is "evil and bad"

Except you seem to over look Xautos, that Enzyme 42 is in the ecosystem from the 5 Juvenile Sea Emp leviathans. Even if they "Released" the Khaara, it's NOT dangerous. It would become inert. Anyone eating any flora or fauna native to 4546B will get Enzyme 42 in their body. What's the point in being safe and using precaution with a bacteria that poses NO THREAT!? So even in both your's and Wert's theories, it doesn't address the logical inconsistent plot.

I can't answer to the motivations of Alterra or Sam or Marguerit beyond what you already know. While Alterra might very well be evil, but even evil for the sake of evil isn't going to keep them in business for very long, and at some point even they will recognise that what they have is more a threat to their own interests than it is ever going to be useful. There will be something out there so dark and twisted, not even Alterra want to deal with it.

As for the Enzyme 42. the world is massive, a lot of water, currents in the ocean, isolated pockets of water where the enzyme won't reach and so on. there are only 5 of these babies out there on this massive world. even if they swam for the next 50 years spreading the cure around, they wouldn't cover even 1/5 of the planet with the cure.

There is also no way of knowing if the enzyme can go inert itself or the operating temperature it can work in and what effects it has on the enzyme if it is far too hot or far too cold. Like you stated, there isn't a lot in this game to explain everything fully.

Whales on Earth can migrate across the planet in less than "50 years" and cover more than 1/5th of the planet. But I get what you're saying.

I looked at that link Squidbob, and some of those didn't "wash ashore" but were already there, burried and submerged, and exposed. But anyone who's played Below Zero or Subnautica knows there are no storms, no "waves" no "tide" and no "current"

But you wanting us to believe a Habitat Builder floated to Maida to use that's more of a stretch than almost anything we've discussed here is.

Or solutions are supposed to solve the problem, not replace it with more problems or make the problem worse.

Everyone here trying to fix the thread deserves to be an honorary UWE member we seem to care more than they do about their own product.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by Wertologist:

But if Alterra didn't take more samples away to be safe, why did they take any to begin with? That's a flawed argument you presented. Messing with the Kharaa in any way is dangerous and they were doing it anyways. They even talked about how it could potentially be used in other ways which implies that they will try to repurpose it. So shipping samples off is not a stretch at all. If safety was really a concern, they'd assign more than a single security guard on the whole planet. They'd have a small city built up to study it safely and efficiently, not leave it up to 6 people. So the "safety" argument falls flat and if you really wanted to roll with it anyways, it just creates more plot holes.

you made my point for me why they may have needed to make safety a concern and keep it at an isolated facility on the planet until they had some assurances they can study the virus in a contained area like a space station off world and if something goes wrong, they can use those precautions to kill the virus off in a safe place.

It would allow them to experiment with it after they have go everything place.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

For the saying of we don't know how Kharaa handles in the cold, we do know actually. The frozen leviathan is literally proof that it still thrives in the arctic. If it didn't, then the Architects would have figured that out since they'd studied it for many years and the leviathan wouldn't be infected. The Kharaa survived intact while frozen so it has no problems with the cold.

Those arctic temperatures are at worst about -200'c (?), i mean even colder climates, something like -500'c where the virus isn't so adapted because of the creatures it inhabits aren't able to live in such places and their bodies aren't adapted to it, and neither will the virus, or even the cure.

Same on the opposite end where some caverns on the first game can reach 100'c, i'm thinking along the lines of 750'c or higher where it can be considered extremely hostile.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

As for "Maida having a mutation", that's so unrealistically improbable that it's not worth even suggesting. If she had a mutation that cured it for her(she was still confirmed to be infected), that means that it would be possible for other life forms to develop a similar mutation. The Architects never found a single life form aside from the Emperor Leviathan that was immune.

Human bodies do have random mutations from skin pigmentation to allergies and different sized fingers and toes between siblings. It can happen on a cellular level on the brain creating a delay for a mental disability, stunted growth creating dwarfism and inherent strengths and weaknesses to certain things like HIV, more violent reactions to pollen spores and so on.

There is nothing unrealistic about it, it is just unlikely to be the case but even a chance is a chance, no matter how small it is.

I also never stated she was immune, i stated that it provides partial protection and if she got small amounts of the enzyme in her body from peepers that she fed on on her way across the void which could provide her additional protect from the bacteria, but it isn't an immunity and it can still spread unchecked, but at a slower rate because of the mutation.

She may have discovered it completely by accident after scanning herself when she had the chance.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

As for the Enzyme spreading taking time, we don't really know the growth rate of the Emperor Leviathans. They seem to grow fairly quick and constantly produce the stuff. Once they are large enough, I imagine that they'd produce more of the enzyme and at a more efficient rate. It's not completely unrealistic that they spread the enzyme to other parts of the planet, but that's still a fault on UWE for not properly explaining that. Not a very good look for the story.

Ocean currents could carry the cure further out or they could push the cure back the way the babies had come from. Considering how chaotic the weather is on the surface, it would create swells on the surface, it might be very likely enough cure could be thrown around a few miles in any direction around each baby, but then again the weather could be completely still in certain places and the water is always calm, the cure would never spread around.

But yeah, it is something i wondered and it wasn't explained.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

As for saying that Alterra stuff may have drifted with the currents all the way to the arctic for Maida to scavenge, that's just laughable. Metal isn't exactly the most buoyant substance out there and to try to imply a random box managed to float harmlessly through the void all the way to the arctic and just happened to have a Habitat Builder, it's laughably unlikely. Plus, Alterra didn't get to the planet until 10 years after so there'd be no boxes of supplies that could possible drift there. The Degasi was also a small ship and wouldn't be carrying much for supplies either. Plus, it's heavily implied that the Degasi survivors already scavenged everything they could from their ship before, which is why we can't find any trace of wreckage. So it's even more unlikely that a crate with a Habitat Builder from the Degasi managed to float around the planet for her to conveniently find in the arctic.

Metal with enough gasses inside creating a pocket of gas trapped somewhere is as good as puffing up a rubber armband so it can float. ocean currents can pull it one way or the other, but that implies Marguerit knew how the planetary conditions worked before she attempted it. Sick or not, she clearly did figure something out on her own and made it across, that also implies she had supplies to last beyond a few bottles of water.

The ship she was on may have had some sections that were still intact before they were scavenged. The PDA still needs to connect to databases to get blueprints and the survivors built several shelters for different purposes. So i suspect the computer core of her ship was still in tact when that data was downloaded, and those details on what to build and how to build it were easy enough to run across.

So a habitat builder with a few batteries, and considering how small batteries are, she could of taken a few. it doesn't seem that unlikely.

Originally posted by Wertologist:

Something else that doesn't make any real sense is how Maida even knew what the Kharaa was. They couldn't identify what it was when they were infected 10 years prior. They just knew that they were sick and dying while trying to find a cure. They didn't have the name or any relevant information on it, so it doesn't make too much sense that she knows this much about it. Maybe she learned after Alterra came, but who told her? Sam? It's heavily implied through Dialogue that she already knew prior to meeting Sam. She talked about how dangerous it was....but then destroys a facility holding samples of it and potentially risking an outbreak of it? What kind of sense is that?

Marguerit may have built her own understanding of the virus early on, she may have even had her own name for it. Despite her profession, if she was that intent on surviving, she would need to know everything she could about it. I doubt she was without a scanner for very long.

She clearly found a way to deal with the bacteria and survive, that implies she had a good understanding. That means she knows what it is capable of and destroying such a facility only confirms that she doesn't want it spreading again. It also confirms she knows how to destroy it as well.

[dragonbornzyra]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Those arctic temperatures are at worst about -200'c (?), i mean even colder climates, something like -500'c where the virus isn't so adapted because of the creatures it inhabits aren't able to live in such places and their bodies aren't adapted to it, and neither will the virus, or even the cure.

Same on the opposite end where some caverns on the first game can reach 100'c, i'm thinking along the lines of 750'c or higher where it can be considered extremely hostile.

I'm going to be fair and honest, there is NOTHING you or anyone else can say at any point that will ever convince me the cold is a solution to the Khaara, or the "hot" temperatures. That's just about the absolute first thing ANY bacteriologist/virologist will experiment and test, is to see how the bacteria/virus handles extreme cold/heat.

My brain will not under any set of circumstances accept that the Precursor's just over looked such an obvious starting point. And you bring up the lava zones from Subnautica.. Did you forget about Khaara infected Lava Rays and Lava Lizards and Red Eye Eyes and Magmarangs? Having the Khaara? Did you convenient forget that trying to support your claim of justifying the cold impedes the Khaara? When it doesn't because the Frozen Leviathan got infected?

When the extreme heat doesn't impede the Khaara? Because we actively see Khaara infecting native fauna to this extremely hostile environment?

You're kind of pushing past Jill Murray territory.

She didn't try enough and made a bad story.

You're trying too hard and you're coming up with a worse story.

It's one thing to refuse to try to explain something and it makes no sense.

It's a worse thing to try to explain something so poorly the brain takes up alarm.

But you'll have us believe just like Sam, Maida is just a Mary Sue that can do things that defy logic and physics just because they tried hard enough. Both Sam and Maida just WILLED themselves to be world class bacteriologists and outperform the entire Precursor race and did what no other human being or the finest Alterra scientists can figure out.

Because they tried hard enough.

Miss me so hard with that weak fish.