How is this p2w?

[Kuromora]

So, this is my first time even hearing about KurtzPel and after playing it Im pretty surprised by it. Probably going to be playing more. I have a metric ton of questions with one being the biggest(Which is in the title). I looked everywhere I can't find any aspect about the game thats p2w. I'm being completely honest here, no trolling or none of that ♥♥♥♥. I've played countless f2p games that're obviously p2w. You can buy a costume and boom 100% pure p2w stats even though they say the stats the costume gives is small at best. But I see nothing like that from this game. Costumes cost a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but it's not p2w. I also don't understand the region locked thing. Like, I'm from NA so I get locked into NA. But why would I want to switch regions? What's the purpose? I saw someone posting about being locked out of spamming dungeons. If that's true then I'd probably stop right now, but I've yet to get locked out. Idk. As far as Im concerned, this game is running pretty good for me. Not liking the story, but everything seems alright at this point.

[gilde.gothic [Elite_Man]]

Originally posted by Kuro:

So, this is my first time even hearing about KurtzPel and after playing it Im pretty surprised by it. Probably going to be playing more. I have a metric ton of questions with one being the biggest(Which is in the title). I looked everywhere I can't find any aspect about the game thats p2w. I'm being completely honest here, no trolling or none of that♥♥♥♥♥♥ I've played countless f2p games that're obviously p2w. You can buy a costume and boom 100% pure p2w stats even though they say the stats the costume gives is small at best. But I see nothing like that from this game. Costumes cost a ♥♥♥♥ton but it's not p2w. I also don't understand the region locked thing. Like, I'm from NA so I get locked into NA. But why would I want to switch regions? What's the purpose? I saw someone posting about being locked out of spamming dungeons. If that's true then I'd probably stop right now, but I've yet to get locked out. Idk. As far as Im concerned, this game is running pretty good for me. Not liking the story, but everything seems alright at this point.

Well im not 100% sure since i cant play but i guess its p2w because you can buy so much like an early unlock for Classes and other stuff and maybe its because of costumes. (even if i wouldnt consider that as p2w since its like nothing if you ever compare it to and real p2w)

[Aeden]

Honestly, the only thing I see that qualifies as P2W is the Rebirth system. At this time you have to buy a ticket in order to rebirth, and then you can edit your character's stats, something you cannot do without Rebirth.

You might be able to earn Rebirth in game, so I could be wrong, but I haven't seen or heard of it.

[obliviondoll]

From what I've heard, there are currently only 4 classes, and you only start with easy access to 2 of them. The others take a MASSIVE* grind to unlock, with a significant part of the grind also being locked behind time walls, so you have to wait for long periods of time in between opportunities to make minimal progress toward the unlock in the first place.

Money lets you - for cheap - jump the queue on the time walls, or - more expensive - directly buy your way past the grind.

NOTE: I haven't got access either, just working from the information I've found from people who do have playtime.

[Lapinoire]

It's not p2w, the majority of it is just skill-based.

Sword and Bow are just as lethal as Knuckles and Staff, people just don't know how to play them.

All equipment, including costumes and weapons, have the same specs: the only difference is how you change their set stat to your liking.

Buying the class DLC is just paying to get classes you could otherwise unlock through normal play right away.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by Remilnelia™:

It's not p2w, the majority of it is just skill-based.

Sword and Bow are just as lethal as Knuckles and Staff, people just don't know how to play them.

All equipment, including costumes and weapons, have the same specs: the only difference is how you change their set stat to your liking.

Buying the class DLC is just paying to get classes you could otherwise unlock through normal play right away.

If you have a long enough grind that it's impractical to get those things in a reasonable amount of time, they are functionally locked behind a paywall.

If they provide a notably different gameplay experience, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY ARE BALANCED OR NOT, that is pay to win. Different people perform better with different playstyles. Locking options behind a paywall is locking core functionality required for some players to have a chance of winning behind a paywall. Realistically, players should have the option to pick *ANY* of the game's karmas, right from the start, and to have a REASONABLE grind to unlock more, not a massive wall with timers and other obstacles added on to further slow the process down, and payment required to speed up access to that content.

[Kuromora]

See thats what doesn't make sense. KurtzPel isn't the first game to have you buy classes. It's the first RPG that I can think of but every single moba to date has you buy champions/characters in the game. It seems like KurtzPel has the same system setup. I rather that then costumes with stats on them. As for the grind, try buying a new champion on league of legends on a fresh account. That's aids as ♥♥♥♥.

[Sashimi Kimochi]

kurtzpel is not p2w
KOG is a good company
1+1=3
yeah sure

[Kuromora]

Who's saying Kurtzpel isn't p2w? I could have sworn this was a discussion and I was trying to find the cause of it. And KOG being a ♥♥♥♥ company never came up did it? Not sure, I just got back.

[Sashimi Kimochi]

wait until you got upgrade lootbox, the f2p and whale gap will get even more larger. You already played the game i assume you know how much upgrading karmas cost

[Kuromora]

Yeah Ik about the upgrading and a friend told me about the lootbox. So far, nothing other games don't already have. The only thing it's missing is stat boosters in the shop, and costumes with stats on it. I can't call it p2w unless I see those things.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by Kuro:

See thats what doesn't make sense. KurtzPel isn't the first game to have you buy classes. It's the first RPG that I can think of but every single moba to date has you buy champions/characters in the game. It seems like KurtzPel has the same system setup. I rather that then costumes with stats on them. As for the grind, try buying a new champion on league of legends on a fresh account. That's aids as ♥♥♥♥.

Except that MOBAs have a LARGE number of characters of each "class" and make multiple of EVERY class available to free players reliably and consistently, not locking access to ANY such class behind a paywall - just locking PERMANENT access to SPECIFIC characters within the class until you grind and/or pay. And the grind is usually way less than what it sounds like this game's grind will be.

[Kuromora]

Every MOBA has champions/characters being bought with either in game currency, or real money currency. I don't know of any MOBA that doesn't do that. And while they usually have a massive amount of characters to choose from, that just means more things to grind for or buy with real money. And no moba makes classes. If they're doing it correctly, they make unique characters that differ from each other, so in a sense it's worse because there's always something your not experiencing unless you have all the characters. From what I heard about KurtzPel and the karmas, while they all differ in some way, you can succeed at any aspect of the game with any karma you choose. And coming from someone who's played league since season 2, the grind isn't worse. It feels exactly the same. If you take into account earning one new champion in league(which usually cost around 6,800 essence or 7,900 for the newly released champs) you earn about 100-200 essence a game if I remember correctly. Games usually last about 30 mins, and so doing the math with gross numbers, you can get a general idea of who much essence your getting an hour(Not counting missions) It takes me nowhere near 30 mins to beat a boss in kurtz, which would give anywhere between 80-110 CP. So if I was strictly to grind for a class(Which is what Im doing) I think it feels easier to get a class on Kurtz then it does on League. I use league as an example because it's the most popular MOBA game (objectively speaking) and it's actually the only one I played lol

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by Kuro:

If you take into account earning one new champion in league(which usually cost around 6,800 essence or 7,900 for the newly released champs) you earn about 100-200 essence a game if I remember correctly. Games usually last about 30 mins, and so doing the math with gross numbers, you can get a general idea of who much essence your getting an hour(Not counting missions) It takes me nowhere near 30 mins to beat a boss in kurtz, which would give anywhere between 80-110 CP. So if I was strictly to grind for a class(Which is what Im doing) I think it feels easier to get a class on Kurtz then it does on League. I use league as an example because it's the most popular MOBA game (objectively speaking) and it's actually the only one I played lol

So it takes "less than 30 mins" in Kurtzpel to beat a boss, and "about 30 mins" to complete a match in League. And that, in both cases, gets you roughly 100 currency.

Lets assume, being generous, that Kurtzpel takes you 10 minutes to beat a boss. For 300 currency in the time it takes to get 100 in League.

You still only need around 7,000 currency in League - around 70 matches' worth, or around 35 hours of playtime, compared with 75,000 in Kurtzpel, which is 750 matches, and even with a generously low time estimate for that, it's going to be 125 hours. And that's without factoring in the other things you might want to buy with the same currency. Or the fact that PvE content in Kurtzpel gets walled off behind a timer (unless you pay money to skip that instead) so you have to wait that out before you can get your progress back on track as a free player.

And putting it at 35 hours for LOL makes that an objectively terrible grind, with the only saving grace being that YOU GET A FREE ROTATION so you don't actually have to buy a character to have a chance to come in occasionally and pick up the character you want even before you get them unlocked "properly". Something entirely absent from Kurtzpel's system. And most MOBAs have a similar rotation system, sometimes randomised on a per-player basis, so you and your other free player friends will have different lists of available characters to pick from.

And no, most MOBAs do NOT have purely "unique" characters with no commonalities among them. Yes, every character is unique, but they typically fit their unique powerset into a general archetype. DPS characters put out contstant damage into enemies, able to flexibly harm both high-value targets and groups of weaker enemies, mages hit with slower-charging but powerful area effect attacks to clear crowds, assassins tear apart bosses or enemy players with single-target damage, and support or healer classes keep the team alive and/or act as a force multiplier by buffing allies or weakening enemies. In most MOBAs, such a class-based structure is standard, and in many other f2p team games similar types of system apply, and are very useful to encourage teamwork with different roles helping the team in different ways, and working best when accompanied by other classes. And in most MOBAs and many other free-to-play games with such mechanics, multiple of each class not only exist, but are available in free rotation as a matter of course - so you not only have the option to play any class free, but very often have CHOICES within each class even before buying a character you'd prefer permanent access to.

[Regolant]

... I don't see the problem... You still need to git gud with all classes and you're going to grind to get gud regardless...

[Kuromora]

You just said they're not purely unique and then said they are unique. But, that's beside the point. I still don't think that grinding for the classes in Kurtzpel is p2w. I think it might be inconvient for some, and for those people I would recommend to buy it, but I was under the assumption that this game would be buy to play anyway. I don't feel like anything BESIDES THE REBIRTH system is p2w. As for the rebirth system, I don't like it, and I would hope to see some changes to it, but other than that I don't see anything p2w. Most of us have been playing this for less than 24 hours as the game is still in early access. I would hope they take people's feelings into consideration when progressing this game.