The Final Final Battle (spoilers) - Won

[flux_c]

This post will contain a lot of spoilers, as it discusses what could be considered post-game content.


























Of course, I'm referring to the 'Burger' battle at the temple. For those that don't know, after completing the game, return to Tarjan's temple. At this point, the monks will again allow you to enter a password. Answering with 'burger' will initiate an extremely difficult fight.

The battle will be vs 99 Gimps, 99 Ancient Enemies, 99 Jabberwocks, and 99 Maze Masters. Pretty sure the Gimps and Ancient Enemies will always start at melee range, while the other two may appear up to 30 feet away.

Running from this battle seems to be impossible, but does reroll the range the Jabberwocks and Maze Masters appear. Its possible to use this to your advantage, since if the Maze Masters or Jabberwocks start further away then melee range, there is a chance they will advance, effectively skipping their turn. The chance is generally too low to count on, though. If they start in melee range, a number of them will resort to melee attacks, which is generally preferable.

Successfully winning against all these enemies provides 199,131 exp (if you have seven living characters in your party). The items seem to be pulled from the standard Skara Brae loot table. You will also be immediately thrust into a second battle (see below).

Winning this first battle requires a couple different things. First, around -35 AC for the first four members of your party. At -33 AC, my characters were still hit, but at -36 they were not. This included the benefits of YMCA. For this battle, monks seem to be the only class that can enter the battle with these values. Its extremely unlikely you will be able to cast any defensive spells before the enemies attack, so you must start here.

Second, you need high spell resistance (SR) values to repel spells and breath attacks. SR is a bit complicated, but the benefits from level are capped at level 36. Characters should also be equipped with Luckshields, as these provide the only item based SR bonus I'm aware of. Of course, 18 Luck is also necessary.

I recommend throwing your most effective attacks at the Jabberwocks, and then the Maze Masters. The Jabberwocks have a very damaging breath attack, while the Maze Masters often cast Shock Sphere. Fanskar's Force Focus works well if they are in melee range; otherwise, use Flame Column. Killing these two groups also speeds up the combat, as group attacks take longer to resolve. The other two groups shouldn't pose any risk, provided your AC is sufficient.

After the first battle is won, you receive the standard exp and treasure screen. The monks will deliver a short message, and a second battle will be initiated. This one includes 99 demon lords, 99 balrogs, 99 soul suckers, and either 99 Liches or 99 Spectres. I've never heard of anyone surviving this battle.

Any additions? Or ideas for the second battle? I have a few ideas for the second battle, but I haven't gotten around to attempting them.

[Master_OrHan]

Even higher level monks for second battle, perhaps around -50 AC or better. Might try running again. That is my theory. I am testing this myself already.

[davesedg]

So all your melee characters have to be monks for this battle, yes?

[Trojanski]

I wonder if we will be able to switch between all three games in this remaster? I would like to come back to these fights after killing Tarjan with my maxed party slinging Gotturdammerung and see how far this rabbit hole goes.

Also, did we end up compiling a full list of codes for the Catacombs? I heard typing Jeanette also works and there are supposed to be more.

[noblesse_oblige]

Jennell still works, I believe.
Taco used to work in the Olde Skuul remaster, but I think it was yanked out in the Krome one.

[flux_c]

So, I just completed the second battle. Didn't even get hit. You receive 209,993 exp (if all seven characters are alive). I fought the Liches; Spectres in the second battle may give a different total. The monks then say "Never say that word again!", and kick you out of the temple. Going back in and saying 'burger' again simply starts you over with the first battle.

Four monks at level 36 are enough, along with three casters. As was mentioned above, probably need to at least equip the monks with Luckshields, as they have relatively low spell resistance.

While you do get over 400k exp, I wouldn't say its great for grinding. Too many of the enemies have breath or spell attacks, significantly slowing down the battle. Also, most of the creatures are extremely tough, requiring multiple castings of spells to completely wipe out.

[Old_Danny]

I completed the first fight with a monk. (left)
Also completed the second fight with the same monk. He's a bad man.

Used a completely different charater loadout then your suggestions. Took only 4 guys. 1 monk, 1 bard, and 2 spellcasters with 3 loser summonings in front as deadbeats.

[Master_OrHan]

Use a real world timer to time this fight with your favorite exp grind spots. Bet this is a little better.

[Old_Danny]

Originally posted by GodHand_OrHan:

Use a real world timer to time this fight with your favorite exp grind spots. Bet this is a little better.

The real grind is leveling up 4 monks in order to use the slots and protect the mages/bards.

[flux_c]

Originally posted by GodHand_OrHan:

Use a real world timer to time this fight with your favorite exp grind spots. Bet this is a little better.

Another primary problem here is initiative. The enemies at one of the main grinding spots, the wights and ghouls on Catacombs 3, have relatively low initiative. A decent level caster is probably going to go before the monsters, thus greatly reducing the overall time of each combat. Halving the potential of the round, effectively.

The burger battle enemies are *much* faster. You are very unlikely to go before them. So, every round, you pretty much need to wait for all the enemies to act before you do. Initiative for monsters is calculated by group, so if you see one act, they all will. This makes each combat round very long.

[flux_c]

Originally posted by Chief:

Originally posted by GodHand_OrHan:

Use a real world timer to time this fight with your favorite exp grind spots. Bet this is a little better.

The real grind is leveling up 4 monks in order to use the slots and protect the mages/bards.

This is another reason its not great for grinding - it requires a fairly specific party setup. Its possible you could get a single, very high level, completely decked out warrior in the front line. I think something like a -31 AC is possible with the bard song and YMCA. There's only one Spectre Snare available in the game, which is why you could only have one. But, they're going to take a number of hits.

The back three are more flexible. Casters are, of course, the most flexible. But bards with horns, or some of the other classes, with something like Dragonshields, could work.

[Old_Danny]

Originally posted by flux_c:

Originally posted by Chief:

The real grind is leveling up 4 monks in order to use the slots and protect the mages/bards.

There's only one Spectre Snare available in the game, which is why you could only have one.

.

You can farm it in this version. As long as it is not in your inventory you can go back and re-answer the riddle as many times as you like.

[Master_OrHan]

-31 AC is not low enough to beat the second wave of the burger fight. It is irrelevant they all attack first if real world time is saved in the burger fight over any other grind spot.

[Old_Danny]

I've now beaten these two encounters four or five times. Ive used three successful different strategies and tried many other ones that did not work.

I did not want to power level multiple Monks or Bards to win it so I chose different strategies.

That being said, it took MUCH longer to win those fights then it would have taken me to farm in Mangars in real time.
Now, if you choose to go into the Temple fights with multiple Monks (4) who will take care of all the incomng mele attacks with their low AC then it could be a viable experience farm time wise.

Also, my Monk never loses initiative. never. He's level 100+ with AC of -50 (that may be the max AC dispayed in this game?)