Catacombs level 3 grind spot is no more!

[Cynns]

So, not sure when this happened (probably with Part 2), and I understand *why* it was changed, but I don't like it. Yes, i'm going to complain a little bit here, just a rant.

Since we couldn't grind on the 99x4 berserker group, we were using Catacombs level 3 ... we can no longer use the 69 wights .. or the 36 ghouls .. and I'm going to "assume" that the 2x99 skeletons are going to behave the same...

I know, this is what legacy mode is for which is coming out "soon" ..

Again, just me voicing my opinion..i'm a level grinder, in this game. My mages (by the time i finished BT3 on C64 in the early 90's) were around level 450+. Everyone else was 100+ ...

Looking forward to Legacy mode so i can grind!

[JPMcMillen]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/843260/discussions/0/1733216261964856063/

[Cynns]

Thank you, i did not see that the first time i read through the notes.

[Korgz]

The change only really effects low level grinding. With the changes to spells (new wiz spells) there are actually superior places to end-game grind now anyway (Mangars Tower).

[Madpuppet]

we new this would be contentious for some people but we felt the balance was important to the remaster mode to encourage people to play the game rather than reward people for exploiting certain grind points.

You'll find once legacy mode is on, you'll be able to see some REALLY big numbers by grinding the 99x99x99x99 berzerkers with scroll speed on MAX... So we hope that will satiate your power levelling desires :)

I look forward to reading about how long it took you to overflow our registers :)

[Crom Bombadil]

Game balance? This is not an MMO. We are not competing head-to-head. You should have left more room for people to play in the style that they like. By closing the grind points you are shrinking the variety of playstyle to a very narrow band. Why do this in a single player game? More freedom equals more satisfaction.

[wilson.max]

Originally posted by Cynns:

So, not sure when this happened (probably with Part 2), and I understand *why* it was changed, but I don't like it. Yes, i'm going to complain a little bit here, just a rant.

Since we couldn't grind on the 99x4 berserker group, we were using Catacombs level 3 ... we can no longer use the 69 wights .. or the 36 ghouls .. and I'm going to "assume" that the 2x99 skeletons are going to behave the same...

Huh. That's odd. I tried both the 69 wights and the 39 ghouls last night, after getting 2.0, and they both worked for me. Did it change in 2.01?

[Darkmoor9]

Originally posted by Crom Bombadil:

Game balance? This is not an MMO. We are not competing head-to-head. You should have left more room for people to play in the style that they like. By closing the grind points you are shrinking the variety of playstyle to a very narrow band. Why do this in a single player game? More freedom equals more satisfaction.

Not necessarily. Most people can resist the temptation of cheating, but not that of not using some easy exploits, so closing those exploits is a good thing.

If you want an easy game -- and the current version is already too easy, IMO --, then you can always hex edit the save files, or something.

[wilson.max]

Originally posted by Darkmoor9:

Not necessarily. Most people can resist the temptation of cheating, but not that of not using some easy exploits, so closing those exploits is a good thing.

I don't consider the grind "exploits" because exploits are by definition taking advantage of unintended flaws, not deliberate game features--if the devs deliberately implement fixed encounters of a certain size, they're part of the game and they're there for you to use on purpose. By that same token, if they remove them as undesired, that's okay too.

FWIW, I think the game is more fun without them. Now when I'm exploring Mangar's Castle, I don't have that lurking thought in the back of my mind that "I could be getting more XP per minute in the Catacombs instead of here." There's no more tension between questing to destroy Mangar vs. levelling up quickly. That's better game design IMO.

[Panzer Grenadier]

This is why i'm waiting for Legacy Mode before i start anything.

[Cynns]

Originally posted by wilson.max:

Originally posted by Cynns:

So, not sure when this happened (probably with Part 2), and I understand *why* it was changed, but I don't like it. Yes, i'm going to complain a little bit here, just a rant.

Since we couldn't grind on the 99x4 berserker group, we were using Catacombs level 3 ... we can no longer use the 69 wights .. or the 36 ghouls .. and I'm going to "assume" that the 2x99 skeletons are going to behave the same...

Huh. That's odd. I tried both the 69 wights and the 39 ghouls last night, after getting 2.0, and they both worked for me. Did it change in 2.01?

You can do them once, but that's it. After that they're no longer available to fight again repeatedly for quick grinding. I had managed to get my wizard to about 19 (I only had put in about 4-6 hours total game time.)

[Cynns]

Originally posted by Darkmoor9:

Originally posted by Crom Bombadil:

Game balance? This is not an MMO. We are not competing head-to-head. You should have left more room for people to play in the style that they like. By closing the grind points you are shrinking the variety of playstyle to a very narrow band. Why do this in a single player game? More freedom equals more satisfaction.

Not necessarily. Most people can resist the temptation of cheating, but not that of not using some easy exploits, so closing those exploits is a good thing.

If you want an easy game -- and the current version is already too easy, IMO --, then you can always hex edit the save files, or something.

To me, having to modify game files IS cheating. Grinding is not. Yes, the game itself is a hell of a lot easier than it was in the past, with the experience changes. 4 hours and I already had a party at level 13+.

While i understand the reason *why* it was done, and I understand this is a remastered version and you're welcome to do what you believe you need to do, it changed the "fun factor" a bit for me.

It's tolerable, but I'm looking forward to legacy mode as I prefer (in these games) to grind out obscene amounts of levels for no reason other than a time sink.

[Cynns]

Originally posted by MaDPuPPeT:

we new this would be contentious for some people but we felt the balance was important to the remaster mode to encourage people to play the game rather than reward people for exploiting certain grind points.

You'll find once legacy mode is on, you'll be able to see some REALLY big numbers by grinding the 99x99x99x99 berzerkers with scroll speed on MAX... So we hope that will satiate your power levelling desires :)

I look forward to reading about how long it took you to overflow our registers :)

This makes me happy. I'm looking forward to legacy mode. "Winter" is very vague *lol*, but that's the nature of the beast. Hopefully that will be about the same time as BT3, which I'm really looking forward to.

[Cynns]

Originally posted by Korgz:

The change only really effects low level grinding. With the changes to spells (new wiz spells) there are actually superior places to end-game grind now anyway (Mangars Tower).

Curious as to where, my highest level is my 26 paladin with crap AC, and most of my front line are still in the process of getting slaugtered every few fights (stoned, usually.)

[astrosha]

Originally posted by Cynns:

Originally posted by MaDPuPPeT:

we new this would be contentious for some people but we felt the balance was important to the remaster mode to encourage people to play the game rather than reward people for exploiting certain grind points.

You'll find once legacy mode is on, you'll be able to see some REALLY big numbers by grinding the 99x99x99x99 berzerkers with scroll speed on MAX... So we hope that will satiate your power levelling desires :)

I look forward to reading about how long it took you to overflow our registers :)

This makes me happy. I'm looking forward to legacy mode. "Winter" is very vague *lol*, but that's the nature of the beast. Hopefully that will be about the same time as BT3, which I'm really looking forward to.

Actually, "Winter 2018" is a very specific timeframe.

Winter starts on what date this year, Dec 20? 21? 22? And 2018 ends at 2400 Dec 31.

So, from the first day of winter, until the last day of the year, that's "Winter 2018" .. a timeframe a lot more specific than, say "Fall 2018" which covers a whole three months.

No, Dec 15 is not winter, its still fall, no matter what the weather is outside.

[Darklord]

I played the BT1 remaster a chunk and loved it. However I could not resist grinding... By the time I got to Harkyns castle I had archmages with every spell and there was no challenge at all, making things pretty boring... So I stopped playing.

All my own fault, so I can hardly complain.

I will replay later with some of the legacy features enabled to make the game harder. (Remove double XP for a start)

Daniel.