So rogue is worthless in this game?

[Dasparado]

I cant imagine not having a rogue in an rpg but if they are terrible fighters, cant criticle, and have no other use, then whats the point?

Anyone know it they have ANY use in this game?

[sirbruce]

They improved the Rogue in BT3 so that it makes critical strikes after hiding in shadows, making it a lot more effective. Also, a Rogue is necessary in BT3 to win the game. It appears in this version of BT1 they've imported most of the BT3 functionality into BT1, including the combat, so your Rogue is actually useful.

[lefty1117]

hm i've only been playing an hour but early in the game my rogue has the lowest AC. He's good for getting misses in combat and later on the hide in shadows mechanic allows him to insta-kill on hit. If I remember correctly they can also disarm traps/open chests and identify items.

[angel of derp]

I didn't see a point with Rogues until BT3.

When you're strong, just stick a lvl 1 in a high level party to leech XP if you want a Rogue later. They'll level fast.

I didn't touch the Rogue until BT3, and I just had him piggyback on my existing characters until he was able to do things on his own.

[Madpuppet]

yeah, we agreed... rogue was a bit worthless until BT3 so we've included all the BT3 abilities in BT1 to make the rogue somewhat more useful...

The rogue can hide in shadows and then the first attack is a crit... Rogue can also sneak up on distance enemies and then crit them without being attacked and without the team having to advance.
The rogue can also save you some magic by disarming traps instead of having to trap zap them.

We may rebalance him more in the first patch if people are still finding him underpowered..
(In BT3 the rogue can also identify items, and it might be cool if the rogue could disarm dungeon traps also as you walk around).

[zeeph]

Originally posted by MaDPuPPeT:

We may rebalance him more in the first patch if people are still finding him underpowered..

He isnt underpowered. when he manages to hide in the shadows quick, he cant get damage and that crit thing after hiding is pretty cool.

[Tyler Durden]

Her first guaranteed crit is really powerful. I think my rogue is a valuable part of the team, for sure.

[Beastman666]

what? if i had knew that i would have gone with a rogue instead of a monk...is there anywhere a complete list of all changes made to the remasters?

[tremir]

What about attacking from the back row?
From what I recall of the original BT3, A stealthed rogue could melee attack from the back row, but that option doesn't seem to exist here.
Or do I need a higher level rogue for that?

[PirateEmcee]

Originally posted by MaDPuPPeT:

...Rogue can also sneak up on distance enemies and then crit them without being attacked and without the team having to advance....

Of course, when even enemy magic users advance to close range, the Rogue being able to sneak out to range is sort of useless. Is there maybe a bug with some of the monsters knees-bent, advancing-about behavior? Or have I just not gotten far enough into BT I that monsters hang back?

[Sterno]

I believe in BT3, the Rogue could sit in the back ranks but still do melee attacks if he hid in shadows first. That might make him more useful if that mechanic were added into BT1. He'd basically be a half-time front-liner who can't be smacked back.

[PirateEmcee]

Originally posted by Sterno:

I believe in BT3, the Rogue could sit in the back ranks but still do melee attacks if he hid in shadows first. That might make him more useful if that mechanic were added into BT1. He'd basically be a half-time front-liner who can't be smacked back.

The BT I Rogue has, as far as I can tell, the full functionality of the BT III Rogue. So: the first round after successfully Hiding in the Shadows, a Rogue is marked as being at 10' and is available to launch a stealth attack for a Critical Hit upon monsters at 10'.

Since, so far, all monsters -- even casters for some inexplicable reason -- have advanced to 10' in the fights I've been in (though I've only cleared to L1 of The Sewers), I haven't needed to Hide in the Shadows a second time in a row. But, as my Rogue is marked as standing at 10' at that point, I fully expect that, were I to have them Hide again, they'd be at 20' the next round.

MaDPuPPeT: it occurs to me that, if this is a bug, that I may have an idea of where to look first. How do you have the information coded for ranges for spells? Because BT I didn't have range beyond the S(0)-3 rows being in melee range against the first two monster groups, and the 4-6 rows being magic-only against the third and fourth monster groups.

Spells, so far (Conjurer and Magician Spell Levels 1-3) don't list actual ranges, and I can say off the top of my hand that L1 Conjurer Spell Arc Fire has an unlisted range of 10' (I remember trying it against a foe @20' and it said they were out of range). Do all spells have a programmed range of 10'? If so, then I don't think that anything will stay beyond 10' in BT I for more than a round or two as they'll need to advance to be able to target the player party with spells.

[PirateEmcee]

Originally posted by MaDPuPPeT:

...We may rebalance him more in the first patch if people are still finding him underpowered..
(In BT3 the rogue can also identify items, and it might be cool if the rogue could disarm dungeon traps also as you walk around).

Clarification: currently, the BT I Trilogy Rogue has a listed skill for "Identify." But I'm seeing that it doesn't do anything. Or, at best, it is a passive thing. Just looking to confirm that I'm seeing that correctly, MaDPuPPeT.

If the Trilogy Rogue in BT I is able to identify items, I'm at a loss as to how it works. If it doesn't work that way right now (or ever) and it's just tracking that skill progression because the Rogue will eventually ID things in BT III (where they're supposed to), that's ok too. I'm just making sure I understand.

[tremir]

Originally posted by skru_loose:

Originally posted by Sterno:

I believe in BT3, the Rogue could sit in the back ranks but still do melee attacks if he hid in shadows first. That might make him more useful if that mechanic were added into BT1. He'd basically be a half-time front-liner who can't be smacked back.

The BT I Rogue has, as far as I can tell, the full functionality of the BT III Rogue. So: the first round after successfully Hiding in the Shadows, a Rogue is marked as being at 10' and is available to launch a stealth attack for a Critical Hit upon monsters at 10'.

Since, so far, all monsters -- even casters for some inexplicable reason -- have advanced to 10' in the fights I've been in (though I've only cleared to L1 of The Sewers), I haven't needed to Hide in the Shadows a second time in a row. But, as my Rogue is marked as standing at 10' at that point, I fully expect that, were I to have them Hide again, they'd be at 20' the next round.

I'm sure that functionality works fine, but it's not the FULL functionality of the BT3 rogue.
The BT3 rogue could stand in rows 5-7, and use a melee attack when successfuly hidden in shadows.

As far as I can tell, THAT functionality is missing from the remastered BT1.

[PirateEmcee]

Originally posted by tremir:

I'm sure that functionality works fine, but it's not the FULL functionality of the BT3 rogue.
The BT3 rogue could stand in rows 5-7, and use a melee attack when successfuly hidden in shadows.

As far as I can tell, THAT functionality is missing from the remastered BT1.

Well, that and identification.

I think at this point, a proper set of instructions from Krome or inXile would be nice.

[PirateEmcee]

Yeah....

So I just spent an extra round Hiding with my Rogue.

"Rogue stays in the shadows."

But they did not advance. Or, they did not advance, because there were only monsters within 10' of the party so advancing would take them out of attack range? My memory is really rusty on this, obviously, but I could swear my Rogues in BT III would advance if they hid on subsequent turns even if there were no enemies towards which they could reasonably advance.

More and more, some official documentation would be nice. I'm generally enjoying the quality of life stuff they've done, but this muddling of the functionality of different games without them explaining what and how is starting to be vaguely irritating.

Anyone here have a link on another conversation where they lay this out, one that I've just managed to miss?