TFTV multi-class perks and combos

[thee.alemaozinho]

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find it.

I finished the base game with nearly everything it has to offer and am planning now my squad setup for TFTV. Reading through the wiki descriptions, my question there: If in TFTV I multi-class (or multiclass...) a soldier, do I also get the other class perks on levels 3 and 6?

Edit: changed title to include combos (listed below for discussion).

[Spotter]

Yes you do. The Dual-Class/Multi-Class characters get the perks for both Classes as in the base game. But... TFTV has that Delusion Virus that affects all Perks.

[Voland]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find it.

I finished the base game with nearly everything it has to offer and am planning now my squad setup for TFTV. Reading through the wiki descriptions, my question there: If in TFTV I multi-class (or multiclass...) a soldier, do I also get the other class perks on levels 3 and 6?

You mean the class perks (third row perks associated with the class, like Gunslinger or Kill Zone for sniper) of the second class? No.

So, for example, Heavy-Sniper is not the same as Sniper-Heavy.

[thee.alemaozinho]

Originally posted by Voland:

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find it.

I finished the base game with nearly everything it has to offer and am planning now my squad setup for TFTV. Reading through the wiki descriptions, my question there: If in TFTV I multi-class (or multiclass...) a soldier, do I also get the other class perks on levels 3 and 6?

You mean the class perks (third row perks associated with the class, like Gunslinger or Kill Zone for sniper) of the second class? No.

So, for example, Heavy-Sniper is not the same as Sniper-Heavy.

Yes, indeed! So I do need to choose carefully, i.e., it does make a difference, which class I select first.

Also, is it intended that all bandits I rescue automatically get the Phoenix faction perks? Or could this be randomized?

[Voland]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Also, is it intended that all bandits I rescue automatically get the Phoenix faction perks? Or could this be randomized?

Intended, at least for now.

[Russell]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Originally posted by Voland:

You mean the class perks (third row perks associated with the class, like Gunslinger or Kill Zone for sniper) of the second class? No.

So, for example, Heavy-Sniper is not the same as Sniper-Heavy.

Yes, indeed! So I do need to choose carefully, i.e., it does make a difference, which class I select first.

Also, is it intended that all bandits I rescue automatically get the Phoenix faction perks? Or could this be randomized?

Yes bandits were all Phoenix Point stock and so had Phoenix Point faction perks.

To add to your approach, one thing I did was have a play using console and try nearly every combination of multiclassing to get a broad sense of what was possible.

It's no substitute for in-game experience, but it helped digest all the perks and overcome any concern about not making optimal choices. There's always room for developing new ideas as the campaign unfolds, and after 2 playthroughs of TFTV I still have more ideas for my third :p

Feel free to ask to benefit from our experience for any builds that might fit your own playstyle!

[thee.alemaozinho]

Originally posted by Russell:

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Yes, indeed! So I do need to choose carefully, i.e., it does make a difference, which class I select first.

Also, is it intended that all bandits I rescue automatically get the Phoenix faction perks? Or could this be randomized?

Yes bandits were all Phoenix Point stock and so had Phoenix Point faction perks.

To add to your approach, one thing I did was have a play using console and try nearly every combination of multiclassing to get a broad sense of what was possible.

It's no substitute for in-game experience, but it helped digest all the perks and overcome any concern about not making optimal choices. There's always room for developing new ideas as the campaign unfolds, and after 2 playthroughs of TFTV I still have more ideas for my third :p

Feel free to ask to benefit from our experience for any builds that might fit your own playstyle!

Thank you very much! Let me take you up on that then.

For Vanilla (incl. DLCs) I found a very comprehensive overview of class combinations from Gorffo that helped me a lot understanding how the systems works (and strong impact of perks in Vanilla). I did not find anything for TFTV, so going through the wiki, this is what I came up with (follows quite a lengthy post):

Sniper:
* Sniper / Heavy seems to be a very efficient combination, to get a lot of shots out, either via Overwatch or Rage Burst, with the option to make the sniper more mobile with heavy torso and jet jump. However, I did not find any other combination that would make sense or provide good synergies. Are there?

I was also thinking about Sniper / Assault, but with the Focus on Overwatch not sure whether there would be enough damage output to finish off targets in a chain.

Grenadier:
* Heavy / Sniper: Grenadier, mainly combined with sniper to get the marksman perk, because I like my grenades to hit with high accuracy. Any other combinations for a grenadier? Also: Does the "Troublemaker" perk apply to grenade launchers?

Similar to above, Heavy / Assault would be nice, but I don't see my grenades finishing up many targets to make use of Kill'n'Run and Rapid Clearance; also the loss of accuracy, either with or without quick aim.

Assault:
* Assault / Heavy vs. Assault / Berserker: Quite a bit undecided which one is better here or what works better in practice to complement the standard Assault role.

Tank:
* Berserker / Heavy vs. Berserker / Technician: What would work better for a tank? The Berserker to get more resilience, or the Technician to be able to heal up more quickly?

"Chain finisher"
* Berserker / Assault: With the changes to Rapid Clearance and Vengeance Torso, what would be the closest that comes to that, either with Melee or MG? I am thinking Berserker / Assault, but open for other suggestions.

Skirmisher:
* Priest / Technician: Used with "Amplify" (main reason for the Technician) to get out max. Virus damage and apply other Priest abilities.

* Infiltrator / Priest: Similar idea as with Priest / Technician, but with the focus on Infiltrator abilities while staying concealed, and apply Poison damage for addtl. WP loss.

* Infiltrator / Technician: Trying to make best use of surprise attack w/ neural feedback to neutralize single high-value targets. Not sure whether this would work, or how it would compare to above Priest class combinations.

Support:
* Technician / Priest: ultimate support for own troops, with healing capabilities, AR target, Frenzy or WP recovery.

* Assault / Priest: mainly taken to support own troops with Onslaught; not sure whether it is worth the change from Technician just for that one ability.

Happy to get your thoughts on those.


Other combinations which I already sorted into the "experimental" area are:

* Infiltrator / Berserker: don't really see those two working together well

* Priest / Infiltrator: Would switch the "Amplify" from the Technician to Poison damage and 3WP loss per round; I think I would get much more out of Amplify.

* Assault / Technician as opposed to Assault / Priest: I would basically swap the Frenzy or WP recovery of the Priest against addtl. healing capabilities; not sure it would be worth it.

[Russell]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Thank you very much! Let me take you up on that then.

For Vanilla (incl. DLCs) I found a very comprehensive overview of class combinations from Gorffo that helped me a lot understanding how the systems works (and strong impact of perks in Vanilla). I did not find anything for TFTV

My pleasure, happy to help - and very curious at class combinations that people can dig up!

I did find some discussions on Reddit which originally got me started:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/yu9ps0/tftv_multiclassing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/y7lg2t/tftv_good_class_combos/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/15hae61/tftw_class_combinations_and_other_tftw_questions/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/1b7hs23/terror_from_the_void_your_favorite_soldier_combo/

On Steamcommunity:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/839770/discussions/0/6204299339028100933/?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/839770/discussions/0/5913830210154832030/ (tanks and priests)

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Sniper:
* Sniper / Heavy seems to be a very efficient combination, to get a lot of shots out, either via Overwatch or Rage Burst, with the option to make the sniper more mobile with heavy torso and jet jump. However, I did not find any other combination that would make sense or provide good synergies. Are there?

Sniper/Heavy is by far the most powerful combination and largest damage dealer that I use (followed closely by Heavy/Sniper.) With Return Fire, this build gives up to 4 sniper or heavy weapon shots per turn. RF relies heavily on Perception for range, and so pairs well with the Nightvision head mount - as well as perception related perks.

The versatility of being able to use Deceptor MG can be situationally very useful in taking down heavies, along with the higher accuracy of a sniper.

With Inspire, this combination generates a lot of WP between rounds, which makes a big difference to the whole team given the Delirium mechanic in TFTV.

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

I was also thinking about Sniper / Assault, but with the Focus on Overwatch not sure whether there would be enough damage output to finish off targets in a chain.

Definitely a much weaker combo. In practice there wasn't much room to use Rapid Clearance, but one could do this with cheaper targets like worms or mindfraggers. A Sniper/Assault could take 2 sniper shots in turn to target a particular limb and reposition with Kill'N'Run, or could take 1 sniper shot, 1AP to reposition, and 1AP for a double overwatch.

Personally I get similar benefit using a Assault unit with a sniper weapon proficiency, although I actually do find the Hawk Light Sniper useful for that clearing role (accurate but low AP damage at a medium distance for things like Mindfraggers.)

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Grenadier:
* Heavy / Sniper: Grenadier, mainly combined with sniper to get the marksman perk, because I like my grenades to hit with high accuracy. Any other combinations for a grenadier? Also: Does the "Troublemaker" perk apply to grenade launchers?

This is the best Grenadier multiclass I've used.. The 1AP overwatch is also massive for this multiclass too and in practice is one of the biggest damage dealers.

x2 long distance grenades + return fire (need to remember to switch weapons!)
or
x1 long distance grenade + long distance mount + 1AP overwatch.

I'm not sure re: Troublemaker, and just selected for other Perks.

My secondary Grenadiers are simply Assault classes with heavy weapon proficiency. In practice x2 quick shots + the Goliath heavy grenade work better than the Vidar Assault class grenade due to the ^radius and damage. I didn't notice much accuracy deficit from use of Quickshot, but I also only play with Grenade Scatter enabled and expect some degree of inaccuracy.

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Similar to above, Heavy / Assault would be nice, but I don't see my grenades finishing up many targets to make use of Kill'n'Run and Rapid Clearance; also the loss of accuracy, either with or without quick aim.

Agreed - in practice the grenades will seldom finish anything other than weaker variants on TFTV. They are very useful at shredding armour, removing limbs and softening up targets to be killed in overwatch though :)

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Support:
* Technician / Priest: ultimate support for own troops, with healing capabilities, AR target, Frenzy or WP recovery.

* Assault / Priest: mainly taken to support own troops with Onslaught; not sure whether it is worth the change from Technician just for that one ability.

Now these are both great builds I've had the most experience with! Priest pair extremely well with nearly every class in TFTV.

Priests skills are more than just support, as Frontline troops really benefit from Mind Sense, Psychic Ward, and especially Mind Crush. Knowing where the enemy is from the scouting of assaults gives the grenadiers something to soften up well in advance, followed by snipers quickly killing them. The lack of panic in the team over a Legendary playthrough can't be overstated.

The ability for an Assault unit to run under a room full of Pandorans and safely kill them with Mind Crush is huge (base defence in TFTV comes to mind!) It's also great for dealing with enemies that are in an inconvenient spot and grenades can't reach.

Similarly mindcrush is great to add to a support Tech/Priest to deal with worms.

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Assault:
* Assault / Heavy vs. Assault / Berserker: Quite a bit undecided which one is better here or what works better in practice to complement the standard Assault role.

Tank:
* Berserker / Heavy vs. Berserker / Technician: What would work better for a tank? The Berserker to get more resilience, or the Technician to be able to heal up more quickly?

Some users have chosen these options in the links I provided at the top.

I'd suggest Berserker/Heavy over Technician, and pick a Torso mutation/cybernetic that matches whatever role you have in mind. The Reaper (Impossible vampiric 1H weapon) may be a better alternative to Tech Arms, as limb damage doesn't matter.

Berserker/Infiltrator with Rocketeer perk is also a fun option which I've used, taken from a Phoninja on Reddit. 1AP jumpjet (NJ Heavy torso) with adrenalin rush. TFTV boosts the Phoenix Shock Lance to deliver 600shock, which nearly guarantees +2AP return because of Daze. Jamming Field and Close Quarters invade reduce damage passively. I've found Decoy massively useful for managing melee Scyllas on Legendary/Better Pandorans. With a Disruptor Head it can nearly act like War Cry, or with a Mind Control immunity head it can operate behind enemy lines without worrying about Sirens.

Mutoids also offer some good functionality for melee tanks that self-heal. There's a Mutoid guide with options I'm going to experiment with in my new playthrough.

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

"Chain finisher"
* Berserker / Assault: With the changes to Rapid Clearance and Vengeance Torso, what would be the closest that comes to that, either with Melee or MG? I am thinking Berserker / Assault, but open for other suggestions.

I've not found any great chain finishing combinations. If you find anything then please share :)

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Skirmisher:
* Priest / Technician: Used with "Amplify" (main reason for the Technician) to get out max. Virus damage and apply other Priest abilities.

* Infiltrator / Priest: Similar idea as with Priest / Technician, but with the focus on Infiltrator abilities while staying concealed, and apply Poison damage for addtl. WP loss.

* Infiltrator / Technician: Trying to make best use of surprise attack w/ neural feedback to neutralize single high-value targets. Not sure whether this would work, or how it would compare to above Priest class combinations.

Some very interesting ideas on how to use those builds! I had actually used a Priest/Tech and considered it drastically underpowered, but I had also really underestimated viral builds at that point. With hindsight I think these are worth experimenting with, especially for Scyllas and the resistance mechanism.

You're right to point out that poison also reduces accuracy by 50% and -3WP each turn in TFTV, so there's potential for powerful effects.

With Better Pandorans enabled on Legendary, Scyllas had huge armour and ridiculous 50% resistances - I needed to extensively use Ragnarok and especially the Jormungandr Acid Cannon at the end game. Jormungandr is effective at distance for shots within turn, but loses significant range for overwatch. I wonder if there's a good build for a Tech or Priest multiclass with a heavy weapon proficiency to use the Jormungandr. What do you think?

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Other combinations which I already sorted into the "experimental" area are:

* Infiltrator / Berserker: don't really see those two working together well

* Priest / Infiltrator: Would switch the "Amplify" from the Technician to Poison damage and 3WP loss per round; I think I would get much more out of Amplify.

* Assault / Technician as opposed to Assault / Priest: I would basically swap the Frenzy or WP recovery of the Priest against addtl. healing capabilities; not sure it would be worth it.

Assault/Tech is quite sound, and it's what I added to each team in Legendary/Better Pandorans to deal with more frequent limb loss. On Heroic I had x3 Assault/Priests on my elite team, but reducing these to 2 were still sufficent to prevent panic on the higher difficulty. The guaranteed addition of laser PDW added versatility, and laser turrets were quite powerful for helping with Scyllas in the final mission.

[Russell]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Tank:
* Berserker / Heavy vs. Berserker / Technician: What would work better for a tank? The Berserker to get more resilience, or the Technician to be able to heal up more quickly?

I've been playing with some Tank combinations.

My favourite remains the Berserker/Infiltrator. The +2AP return on daze made him more reliable as a chain finisher in melee, and reduced the WP cost compared to a Bers/Heavy. Decoy was more effective than pure tanking and I think is smarter gameplay. Jamming Field triggered quite often and is surprisingly effective.

Juggernaut build (Phoenix Berserker/Heavy) was my second favourite Tank build. Jug torso and Propeller legs, NJ heavy head. Lacks +2AP on daze, but has interesting tactical options due to Demolition State and 0AP shield. Sometimes bunkering down might be more useful i.e. myrmidon will just go behind the shield. Could take hits and never really worried about him surviving.

My least favourite was the Anu Berserker/Heavy. Regen Torso and Shadow or Agile legs. Lesser version of Infiltrator or Juggernaut - lacking endurance and Decoy of infiltrator, and lacking the tactical options and tankiness of the Juggernaut. The Regen rate wasn't high enough to matter. Edit: he died shortly after this post, taking 5 shots. He's been reborn aka the revenant project into a true Juggernaut build with a clarity head.

Big test of utility is if they can Tank melee from a Scylla, but I've not had many show up despite having the final mission available! I'm still expecting the Infiltrator to be the most useful. I have some acid/viral delivery builds I'm wanting to test as well.

[Russell]

Tested some Acid/viral delivery builds: specifically to be able to reliably get into a good position to hit a Scylla with the Phoenix Acid Cannon.

Heavy/Sniper (Grenadier) - most should be familiar with the advantages of this build. Ability to get in and out of positions, and fire up to 3 acid shots per turn (3AP shot, 1AP overwatch, free Return Fire.) Worked well on Legendary/Better Pandoran, but the team suffered for losing its only grenadier.

Assault/Technician with heavy weapons proficiency -2 acid shots per turn (x2 quickshot 2AP) with Amplify +50% damage. Good all round unit, ability to get into position, and doesn't take away from a good team mix. Can also drop laser AT turrets which are strong against unarmoured Scyllas.

Priest/Assault with heavy weapons proficiency. Able to get off 2 viral sniper or 2 acid shots per turn with Quick Shot, with 25% acid/viral damage. Able to get into good positions to hit Scyllas, although suffered accuracy on maps with cover (e.g. Anu haven defences.) Not quite as fast as a standard assault (no quarterback.)

Priest/Sniper with heavy weapon proficiency. Also able to get off 2 viral sniper or 2 acid shots per turn (3AP shot + 1AP overwatch.) Definitely noticed the better accuracy for viral weapons compared with Priest/Assault. I felt with acid that positioning mattered more than accuracy.

Priest/Tech with heavy weapon proficiency - this seemed obvious for max damage per acid with Amplify +50% and Biochemist +75%, but in reality could only hit with acid once per turn so I didn't bother with it. If the Acid damage formula makes this great, then one could use Assaults to feed AP with Onslaught skill.

Most of these builds were only tested on Heroic on the final mission (x2 Scyllas) and really all were sufficient to load Scyllas with 1000s of acid in just 2 turns. It's a matter of what builds fit into a team composition best, otherwise any heavy can carry a Phoenix Acid Cannon in their off-hand.

Those who understand the Acid damage formulas might know if it's better to have 1000s of acid, or better to have a smaller amount of acid at +75% damage.

[thee.alemaozinho]

Since you talked about viral:

I had an idea for Berserker / Technician, that would then deliver 15 * 1.5 = 22.5 viral damage per hit with melee Scion of Sharur. Let's assume he would be able with Adrenaline and Killer Instinct to deliver 4 attacks in one round, that would be 90 viral damage, enough to take out every major enemy for 2 out of 3 turns for the rest of the fight.

Also, Berserker / Technician was one of my tank variants, so it would not be so far fetched.

[Russell]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

Since you talked about viral:

I had an idea for Berserker / Technician, that would then deliver 15 * 1.5 = 22.5 viral damage per hit with melee Scion of Sharur. Let's assume he would be able with Adrenaline and Killer Instinct to deliver 4 attacks in one round, that would be 90 viral damage, enough to take out every major enemy for 2 out of 3 turns for the rest of the fight.

Also, Berserker / Technician was one of my tank variants, so it would not be so far fetched.

Ha! I like your out-of-the-box thinking. Honestly just try it and let us know!

It will be even more WP intensive, but that's the intended role of the Berserker to burn out and need Recovery. Maybe have a Ber/Infilt running in another squad and compare?

My 2 preferred melee weapons in TFTV were the Shock Lance (most effective in neutralising a target) and then the Scion in slot 2 for just that reason. Mostly it seemed optimal to disable or kill an enemy on the spot, but I chose viral damage if I wasn't going to be able to shock an enemy (as you say, usually a heavy enemy.) Since the Scion also did less damage on top of that, it made sense to hit and then run the next turn.