whats the point of a scarab

[darcek]

Started playing recently,
So apparently having one is at a cost of 3 squad members?
I dont see the point of having one then, unless as the game progress ,you can build a plane able to carry a vehicle without ejecting squad members for the sake of space.

[Muton]

I thought they changed vehicles to 2 spaces? I only use vehicles on scavenging, acquire vehicles or acquire soldier missions, if possible.

Use them too much and it weakens your squad as the soldiers left behind get no SP.

Other people use them much more.

[Just me n my pc...]

Assorted Adjustments allows assorted adjustments... ;-)

[Artek [General]]

Blitzkrieg tactics.
Especially with upgraded rocket launcher from Kaos Engines DLC.

The double whammy of two rockets is enough to put most light units out of commission. It might not kill them outright - but profuse bleeding from 4 broken limbs will either finish the job or just make them not a threat without hands and legs.
Bonus points for capturing multiple enemies in a blast.

Yes, 3 soldiers is a hard sell... But it's a perfect solution for throw away squads that are only there to protect a haven and nothing else.
Friendly reminder that you can deploy up to 8 units (9 for some special missions) always and only limited by your aircraft... Which you can send multiple of on the same operation.

Vehicle +3 people is sub optimal.
Vehicle +4 people... Much better.

For this reason Thunderbird is a great choice for dedicated mechanised squads that are built entirely around supporting their vehicle and abusing tactical advantages it gives them.
Haven attacked? Deploy this squad and nuke the opposition before it has a chance.
Not to mention the ridiculous power of Drive-By tactics.

For example of Drive-By tactics consider watching video below.
Scarab plays exactly the same way - only it's a little bit slower and has less health... But the rockets hurt a lot more in return.

https://youtu.be/eZS4jPZaSrc?si=klCObLlJm5HA3x7O

[Muton]

you can access vehicle and crate inventory from a soldier outside the vehicle and next to both?

[Bobucles]

3 soldiers is a harsh trade, but there are places where vehicles are worth it:
- They count as a viable scout for exploration. A lonely truck has no problem searching sites, doing events and grabbing loot. Just assume it has a secret civilian crew or something.
- They're viable for trade. A manticore with a scarab can roam around trading and making money all game long.
- They take hits very well. Light melee gets heavily reduced, and machine guns get deflected for many turns. Very few weapons scare a scarab, and they'll still be standing where soldiers easily fall.
- Salvage sites. Vehicles can hold loot. Grab a thunderbird, 4 crew and a vehicle. Zoom across the map grabbing crates, stuffing them in the trunk, and popping out to take free shots at nearby enemies. It's very easy to have perfect salvage sites with a scarab.
- Hit+run tactics. Exiting a vehicle costs 2ap, but entering is free. Jump in, drive up, turn 180, jump out and point blank shotgun tritons in the face. They can't do anything about it. If one side of the map gets crowded just use warcry it's hands down the best skill in the game jump in the vehicle and run away.
- Scarabs are cheaper than soldiers. Consider 1 guy who costs 250 food, then needs 3 armor pieces (~100 mats each), then a gun (another 100 mats), plus tech, medkits, sidearms, etc. If you aren't juggling gear every mission to put 3 soldiers into 1 armor, a soldier is actually more expensive than a scarab.
- They fill holes in the army roster. If you're struggling to fill a second or third team, vehicles will do the trick. Hard hitting missions still want 8-10 walking soldiers, but plenty of maps are no problem with vehicle support.
- Consider a main 5-man flyer surrounded by 3+scarab manticores. The A team has the fast aircraft for main missions, while the manticores do all the side missions with vehicle support. When something demands a full team, 5 + 3 makes a full 8 squad ready to go.

On the strategic layer, vehicles are great. In missions they pull their weight early and midgame. Try building one very early in the campaign and let them babysit your rookies. I do wish there was something like an aircraft upgrade to hold vehicles at 2-cost, or if there was a mission upgrade to make the first vehicle cost 2 deploy. But other than odd late game woes they're fine.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Muton:

you can access vehicle and crate inventory from a soldier outside the vehicle and next to both?

Yes and no.
Vehicle inventory space in vanilla is effectively infinite... But you can only access this infinite from inside the vehicle. Outside units can only trade items in first, uh... 3x3 = 9 slots of the vehicle's inventory? I don't know precisely - I used that mechanic VERY rarely.
That's the inventory that one Kaos Engine upgrade is supposed to upgrade. I'll just get inside, thank you.

Useful though if you go for more conventional support vehicle playstyle as it drives around sharing resources or carrying 9 deployable turrets for technician to throw all over the place.

[Muton]

No one can argue that if you use vehicles a lot, in the late game, your soldiers will have far less SP, and will be weaker.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Muton:

No one can argue that if you use vehicles a lot, in the late game, your soldiers will have far less SP, and will be weaker.

Yeaaah, but it is whatever. An acceptable loss.

The only guys who matter are A-team, and once they are cross classed with all abilities, have maxed Speed, 18+ WPs and 270+ HP (to tank 2 AP Sniper shots in a row) - they're golden.

B-team can get by with 15 WP and don't have to crossclass minus a couple of more useful abilities.

Everyone after that doesn't matter - they are just there to deploy unto assaulted heaven, blow the pandorans to the other side of the moon and punch out their tickets. And vehicles are perfect to compensate for shortcomings of a 180 HP, 10 WP, 15 speed heavy who never seen a combat before this.
Forget Heavy abilities - cross class him into a sniper, give him a QuickShot, a Plan-B pistol in case he runs out of WPs to spam the machine gun and vuala. Drive right next to people to unload Deceptor MG right into their face and call it a day.

I don't need that heavy to know how to do anything else. He doesn't need to run far, he doesn't need HP to tank shots, and he doesn't even need his jetpack.
He only needs a loaded MG and enough WPs to cast Quick Shot.

[Mr Knee]

Originally posted by Muton:

No one can argue that if you use vehicles a lot, in the late game, your soldiers will have far less SP, and will be weaker.

Aside from very early on where the default 2 x 80 missiles of the Scarab typically kill straight out some Pandas, once you get into the middle third of the game then the missiles will usually wreck the Pandas to the point it just needs a soldier to finish the job with a single shot. As long as your soldier takes the finishing shot the same round (rather than risk the Panda bleeding out) then your soldiers should most of the time get the credit for the kill.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Mr Knee:

Originally posted by Muton:

No one can argue that if you use vehicles a lot, in the late game, your soldiers will have far less SP, and will be weaker.

Aside from very early on where the default 2 x 80 missiles of the Scarab typically kill straight out some Pandas, once you get into the middle third of the game then the missiles will usually wreck the Pandas to the point it just needs a soldier to finish the job with a single shot. As long as your soldier takes the finishing shot the same round (rather than risk the Panda bleeding out) then your soldiers should most of the time get the credit for the kill.

Actually this doesn't matter.
Soldiers get same amount of SPs per mission for just being deployed. You can deploy a full 8/8 squad, have one guy evacuate on the first turn and then finish the mission with other 7 and - and the 8th guy will still get the same SPs.
The only mystery here are the EXP points, but to this day i have no idea how exactly they work and Training Facilities are better anyway.

[Mr Knee]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Actually this doesn't matter.
Soldiers get same amount of SPs per mission for just being deployed

The only mystery here are the EXP points, but to this day i have no idea how exactly they work and Training Facilities are better anyway.

Opps you are right. Getting the SP and EXP round the wrong way.

The total XP from the mission is fixed but how it is distributed to the soldiers is dependant on the number of kills by each soldier. Confirmed by Snapshot back in the day and by "back in the day" I mean the Epic version. May have been re-balanced since. Wasn't confirmed if the weighting was dependant on the quality of Panda kill, ie if a Scylla is worth 3 sirens or 6 Tritons.

There were other things - I seem to recall the soldier who opens up a resource crate gets a slightly bigger share too. Or being the one who'd activate the story related square on the map etc.

But even knowing the exact formula won't take away from the general advice of use the closest soldier to "do the thing" rather than try to manipulate who gets to level up.

[Bobucles]

One thing that wasn't mentioned are the very useful perks of hiding inside a vehicle. Aside from the obvious can't get shot, soldiers end up immune to other nasty threats like mind fraggers, mist, goo, and mind control. A soldier can recover WP inside the vehicle, effectively giving them 8AP of action economy for hitching a ride. Some classes are very WP hungry (like priests and pistol snipers) so they can gain tons of WP regen without hurting their mobility.

I haven't tested of entering a vehicle will reset an infiltrator's stealth.

[finnwalTD]

Originally posted by darcek:

Started playing recently,
So apparently having one is at a cost of 3 squad members?
I dont see the point of having one then, unless as the game progress ,you can build a plane able to carry a vehicle without ejecting squad members for the sake of space.

If you have team with vehicles which designed to fight together, 3 space in ship will be acceptable cost for benefits which vehicles does.

Originally posted by Muton:

No one can argue that if you use vehicles a lot, in the late game, your soldiers will have far less SP, and will be weaker.

If your main team with vehicles they will rise 7 lvl faster then team without vehicles. After that all soldiers will have the same +5 points for each mission.

PS: For using vehicles better use mod "BetterVehicles"

[Muton]

It's still important for Squad B, C and D to be good..

They still need to do story missions, They still need to be able to take out Nests and Lairs.. Anu junk yard havens. There are missions where vehicles just cant get around

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Muton:

It's still important for Squad B, C and D to be good..

They still need to do story missions, They still need to be able to take out Nests and Lairs.. Anu junk yard havens. There are missions where vehicles just cant get around

No, not really... Only A and B.
One for each half of the planet. They can take care of any story missions and pandoran hives.

Nests are really not that bad with a vehicle. Sure, map RNG can get f*cky wacky sometimes - but exceptionally rarely. More often vehicle can still wiggle through 3x3 tight tunnels and find a good angle to either shoot the sentinels itself, or give soldiers a chance to do it.

When in doubt - Tech can just throw turrets and they solve the rest of my problems.

Anu junkyard havens? Literally never had issues with them, unless you're talking of something else.
Vehicles just ram through and break absolutely everything on Anu maps. My only complaint is that my pc wants to f*cking burn in the process because of all the physics involved.

Pandoran Lairs are the single worst map for vehicles - that much I can confirm. It's doable, but a lot of pain in the A.