Keep getting overwhelmed

[jmck]

I don't know if it counts as mid or late game, but I keep getting overwhelmed as the game goes on. I've started numerous new games. Enough that I no longer play the intro, even though I do wish I could play with the 'story' squad without it. I tried it on Veteran, and then on Rookie.

At first, it was The Pure. I could handle The Forsaken, when they appear. I was playing nice with all the factions, so had no issues with them. And the Pandorans seemed manageable. Then I kinda figured out the Pure, a little bit; I started overwhelming them with snipers. Going heavier on Sniper recruiting, and making sure any time I dealt with the Pure, I had at least 3 Snipers on the team.

Next, it was the Fliers, after I got Festering Skies. It's not that they're all difficult; some are, some are easy. It's that there are so many in my game, I barely have time to re-arm and repair my aircraft. More come out as soon as they get shot down. I got the NJ weapon that ignores armor, and focused on bringing down weapons systems first to try and minimize repair time, and seemed to make some headway.

Then, my latest run. I got to my first Pandoran Lair (I think it's a Lair... it goes Nest>Lair>Citadel, right?). The one where you have to track down a spawner. My party got wiped quick. A terror sentinel near the starting location - THAT was a new thing - sent everyone into a tailspin. Everyone had at least 12wp, but that didn't matter with this thing. That gave the swarm of Arthrons time to get close and rip my party apart before I could pick them back up.

I had a Helios, The Gift, and a Tiamat (the first thing I built). I had regretted the Tiamat by this, because of how slow it is, and wished I'd just built 2 more Helios or Manticore and fielded a smaller group, and sent them together if I needed more. I also had 20 soldiers. The average level was 4-5, with one 6 and a few stragglers still at 3. Everyone was constantly on missions by this point in the game, to the extent any remaining exploration had basically stopped.

On rookie, I had a crap ton of "rescue the soldiers" missions, and recruits volunteering to join from Haven Defense regularly. I didn't need to spend much in resources to recruit. On Veteran, it was a constant drain on resources to pick up new recruits.

Any tips from more experienced players? I've got the mechanics down, just need some tips to help me break through these logjams so my games don't grind to a dead halt.

[Artek [General]]

At first, it was The Pure. I could handle The Forsaken, when they appear. I was playing nice with all the factions, so had no issues with them. And the Pandorans seemed manageable. Then I kinda figured out the Pure, a little bit; I started overwhelming them with snipers. Going heavier on Sniper recruiting, and making sure any time I dealt with the Pure, I had at least 3 Snipers on the team.

Not only are The Pure countered by snipers, but they are also countered by grenade launchers, rocket launchers, berzerkers (especially armed with grenades) and melee.
And also just about any weapons capable of dishing out 100+ damage per shot. This includes all sniper rifles, handcannon, hel-II cannon and EVEN assaults' Shrike Shotgun. That's pretty much why it exists, i think.
Shred armor, then just overwatch to catch them without shields. This or deploy mechanised team built around a Scarab with Kaos Engines alternative rocket launchers. The thing will absolutely DEMOLISH them.

Next, it was the Fliers, after I got Festering Skies. It's not that they're all difficult; some are, some are easy. It's that there are so many in my game, I barely have time to re-arm and repair my aircraft. More come out as soon as they get shot down. I got the NJ weapon that ignores armor, and focused on bringing down weapons systems first to try and minimize repair time, and seemed to make some headway.

You are on the right track actually.
Close-to-mid range weapons are effectively worthless when it comes to air combat.
Your rush NJ research and build 2 NJ Piercing Cannons and that will get you through first encounters.
Then at least try rushing Advanced Laser Technology. This will unlock the research and production of THE BEST Aircraft weapons - Thunderbolt HC-9.

That thing is horrifingly expensive, costing 200 TECH (!) to produce, but if you can manage to craft 2 of them and double-stack it on some aircraft - you are unstoppable.
You know why? Because that thing shoots 150 DMG, 20 SHRED projectiles every 10 seconds (as opposed to NJ's 120 every 13).
With small tier 1 aircraft you can aim straight for the ship itself and not for modules and you can literally kill it in 2 shots if no misses occur.

For survival there are 2 tricks here.
--- Trick 1: Learn to recognise different pandoran air weapons by their icons and pre-check them on their aircraft before going for a fight. Make 1 instance of every defensive module that allows countering certain weapon types: Afterburner (visual), Flares (heat-guided), Fire Supression (duh), Security Station (bio-weapons) and finally ECM Jammer (radar-guided).
Bring the one that counters what gives you most headache on current target, then aim your guns for the other. By the time the thing will be able to deal damage - it'll probably be already dead.
--- Trick 2: "Hit'n'Run maneuvers".
On all difficulties except LEGEND you can disengage enemy aircraft without a care. It takes 3 in-combat seconds to do that and what's gonna happen is that your aircraft will panic-escape to the closest POI or Haven before you can give it orders again.
When it does that - just send is straight back to attack the enemy again. Any damage you already dealt will be carried over including broken modules (but armor will restore to default, unfortunately).
Can't take any risks? Just keep making these maneuvers until either the hostile is dead, or at the very least - has its most problematic weapons disabled. If all that's left on him is some point blank range flamethrower or rammer - just aim straight for the head to kill it.
Best performed by Helios due to high speed at which it can go in and out.

Then, my latest run. I got to my first Pandoran Lair (I think it's a Lair... it goes Nest>Lair>Citadel, right?). The one where you have to track down a spawner. My party got wiped quick. A terror sentinel near the starting location - THAT was a new thing - sent everyone into a tailspin. Everyone had at least 12wp, but that didn't matter with this thing. That gave the swarm of Arthrons time to get close and rip my party apart before I could pick them back up.

That one's simple: Terror Sentinels suck ass and if any of them have spawned right next to your squad do one of 2 things:
A) Kill it immediately ;
B) Reload the mission via RESTART menu option to get it moved somewhere else

And, of course - try to deploy all 8 soldiers to make lairs easier. You don't have to, a good 6-man squad can manage it, but personally i absolutely hate this mission type. The maps for it are always cringe and sentinels do not help.

I had a Helios, The Gift, and a Tiamat (the first thing I built). I had regretted the Tiamat by this, because of how slow it is, and wished I'd just built 2 more Helios or Manticore and fielded a smaller group, and sent them together if I needed more. I also had 20 soldiers. The average level was 4-5, with one 6 and a few stragglers still at 3. Everyone was constantly on missions by this point in the game, to the extent any remaining exploration had basically stopped.

Tiamat are generally considered crap by almost everyone. They are indeed slow as molasses and their one and only use is bringing overwhelming force to missions that do not have a time-limit on them (story missions, pandoran base destruction, yadi yada).
Thunderbird is a better Tiamat, even if it is still relatively slow and Manticore is the golden standart - quick enough, brings decent enough squad.
Heliosi, however, can be used in engineus way - they can be used as reinforces for other aircraft. Mostly other Heliosi and Manticore.

In my final playthrough i stole a Helios early from Synedrion, put 2 soldiers + vehicle on it (got vehicle from a scavenge mission) and they effectively became a part of my initial Manticore. They would explore together, deploy to missions together and almost never leave each other's side. Hell, with how quick Helios is it sometimes could even go and help other squads sometimes.
After that i pretty much exclusively craft Thunderbird and get free Manticores from base activations (you get 1 on Hero, 2 on Veteran and 3(?...) on rookie.

The goal here is that as your A-squad pushes forward exploring the world - you need to leave someone behind to defend already discovered havens. Which aircraft is that depends purely on the continent.
* Africa is cursed and the most reliable way to cover seems to be to put a Manticore with B-team in the dead center of it and call it a day. Commiting 2 aircrafts to this continent doesn't feel right - too costly.
* Australia is so small - you can dedicate a Thunderbird to it.
* With USA you can either put Manticore in the center between them, or 2 Thunderbird in the center of each. I usually preffer the latter.
* No particular hints about europe - best option seems to be either spreading manticores around with some reinforcer Helios in the middle, or 2 Heliosi in the middle who will always deploy alongside each other and even go assist other aircrafts to deal with any particularly nasty missions or pandoran nest clearings.


A general tip: Laser Technology and Melee weapons are OP.
Got an Assault with Self Defense Specialist? Craft Phoenix Laser PDW and give him that instead of Assault Rifle.
Got someone with Bombardier? Augment him with Neural Torso and give him Laser Array. Also just give Laser Array to all your heavies, ESPECIALLY the ones with Reckless. The thing never misses and is a guaranteed way to kill any enemy under 150 HP as long as you have a direct line of fire on it.
Phoenix Laser Turrets are insanely powerful and can delete enemies without good cover.

[Muton]

Artek can you send me a save file? I'm curious about your aircraft / troop deployments. Africa and North america dont have a center base.. As for me, I dont use reinforcement aircraft at different bases. I have discrete teams at 4 main bases and just put 2 Helios at each one for max 8 soldiers

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Muton:

Artek can you send me a save file? I'm curious about your aircraft / troop deployments. Africa and North america dont have a center base.. As for me, I dont use reinforcement aircraft at different bases. I have discrete teams at 4 main bases and just put 2 Helios at each one for max 8 soldiers

By center of Africa I mean the base at North East of it, on the edge with Europe. Unfortunately that's the center, unless troops are all rested and 100% HP which allows me to move them to one of the POIs.

Same situation with North America. I use the base that's slightly to the west. It has issues with reaching havens on the borders, but never lost one so far.

[Muton]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by Muton:

Artek can you send me a save file? I'm curious about your aircraft / troop deployments. Africa and North america dont have a center base.. As for me, I dont use reinforcement aircraft at different bases. I have discrete teams at 4 main bases and just put 2 Helios at each one for max 8 soldiers

By center of Africa I mean the base at North East of it, on the edge with Europe. Unfortunately that's the center, unless troops are all rested and 100% HP which allows me to move them to one of the POIs.

Same situation with North America. I use the base that's slightly to the west. It has issues with reaching havens on the borders, but never lost one so far.

Not sure what bases you mean.. Do you mean the one in Mexico and Moldova? Or Mexico and Ethiopia?


There are no central bases in NA or Africa, they are all near the edge. Mexico, Alaska, Quebec for NA and Ethiopia, Morocco, South Africa, Ivory Coast for Africa

[jmck]

@Artek

Thank you for all of your advice. That's super helpful and in-depth. I've often wondered where to build bases, and how many I should aim for, and on what time-frame I should plan to try and have how many bases. I've had it happen in one of my playthroughs where an entire continent was unreachable because no havens or POIs had been revealed near enough to anything else for any ship to reach it, and there were no bases for me to activate that would work either.

I've never gotten an extra Manticore from activating a base, though. I don't know what you mean by that. I've had up to 5 bases in a game. I try to build a Research Lab and Fabrication Plant in each of my bases. I recall reading a thread that mentioned a point of diminishing returns with them, but I can't recall what it was. I'm not sure if I should spread those out among different bases, or rush multiples in a single base to get them early, especially when I need the same resources in order to activate new bases. So far, the most I've seemed able to defend (up until things seem to blow up) is 3 continents at a time.

If I'm reading you right, it sounds like rushing Advanced Laser Tech should be a top priority. I'll try that. Melee (and I haven't gone on the wiki or through a bunch of guides to spoil everything) I find difficult to use most of the time, since it requires 2 AP to swing and they have to get right next to the target. But when I can get in position? I've seen it just destroy tough enemies like they were nothing. What combos would you recommend for a good melee build?

Again, thanks for all the advice.

[Artek [General]]

I've often wondered where to build bases, and how many I should aim for, and on what time-frame I should plan to try and have how many bases. I've had it happen in one of my playthroughs where an entire continent was unreachable because no havens or POIs had been revealed near enough to anything else for any ship to reach it, and there were no bases for me to activate that would work either.

Generally - The Mist shows you the way where you should expand.
By that i mean you should take note of new Mist hotspots appearing on the various coasts and activate bases to sort of "intercept" the incoming mist, so that a satelite there was finished by the time it grows big enough and start becoming a problem.

Once you setup the exploration routes - its purely a matter of activating bases solely for the purpose of making Satelites and get everything under scan range. The optimal way to do this is to activate those late game, expensive bases at the last second as the mist comes close. This way you delay the activation as long as you should, but don't have to deal with clearing out the base from enemies once they are inside (which is what happens when mist covers your deactivated base).

I've never gotten an extra Manticore from activating a base, though. I don't know what you mean by that. I've had up to 5 bases in a game. I try to build a Research Lab and Fabrication Plant in each of my bases. I recall reading a thread that mentioned a point of diminishing returns with them, but I can't recall what it was. I'm not sure if I should spread those out among different bases, or rush multiples in a single base to get them early, especially when I need the same resources in order to activate new bases. So far, the most I've seemed able to defend (up until things seem to blow up) is 3 continents at a time.

Ever since Festering Skies update there are free manticores Available - stationed at random bases around the world. You can see them by Manticore's icon next to the base.
As you increase the difficulty of the game - it starts giving you less and less, until finally you get 0 free ships on LEGEND.
That being said, there's an unfortunate possibility - and i know this for a FACT because i experienced it - the free Manticore can potentially be stationed at a certain secret invisible base that becomes available to you after you do a certain faction-related mission.
Kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you ask me. Just another day in PP...

If I'm reading you right, it sounds like rushing Advanced Laser Tech should be a top priority. I'll try that. Melee (and I haven't gone on the wiki or through a bunch of guides to spoil everything) I find difficult to use most of the time, since it requires 2 AP to swing and they have to get right next to the target. But when I can get in position? I've seen it just destroy tough enemies like they were nothing. What combos would you recommend for a good melee build?

I don't need to suggest anything. There's actually a stupid broken meta in this game regarding melee. It's like THE way to play.

Step 1: Activate BLOOD AND TITANIUM DLC.

Step 2: Find an Assault/Heavy with one of these talents:
* Close Quarters Combat (+20% Melee Damage. Also shotgun accuracy, but we don't care)
* Reckless (+10% Damage, -10% Accuracy)
* Quarterback (+2 Speed and something else)
Prefferably to have multiple of these in any combination.

Step 3: Crossclass the man with Heavy/Assault respectively.

Step 4: Gain access to RESTRICTED augmentaion set, a.k.a. the stealth set.

Step 5: Augment the guy with Vengeance Torso which makes melee attacks only cost 1 AP.

Step 6: Give pants that increase speed: optimally Anu Asssault pants as they provide +2 Speed with basically no downsides.

Step 7: Have the man have these skills unlocked:
* Dash
* Brawler
* Rapid Cleareance
* Inspire (optional)

Step 8: Arm the guy with the hardest hitting melee you can find. And i'm talking specifically the on-hit damage.
Ignoring Legacy of the Ancients that's either Anu's Hammer or PP's Lance (Stun Baton) both of which deal 160 DMG by default.

Congratulations: you've just created the most broken soldiers in the game.
BRAWLER provides +50% melee damage, increasing the 160 to 240, and then you can slap CQC or Reckless on top to deal even more. All 3 combined can lead to like... 288 DMG i believe?
And let me remind you: it costs 1 AP because of the Vengeance Torso.

How to win every mission:
>Get Frenzied by a Priest with Frenzy head (+50% Speed for ~3 turns)
>Confirm visuals on multiple hostiles with ~200 HP grouped up in the same place
>Confirm that they are indeed within the effective range of your monster
>Activate Rapid Clearence (returns 2 AP for every kill)
>Start with the weakest <220 HP target and hit it with 1 AP melee attack
>You get 2 AP back for the kill, which means you can move AGAIN and hit someone AGAIN
>Enjoy as the entire operation turns into a game of checkers as your guy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ beats everyone on the map into submission in a single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ turn

♥♥♥♥'s utterly broken and devs don't care. No nerfs, no nothing. This is a LEGIT strategy.
Just don't kind the smell of cheese in the room.

[jmck]

Thank you. I will try to utilize this information in my newest play, started tonight, on Veteran. I will try to share how it is going a few nights from now, to see if this has helped.

I appreciate you taking the time.

[Muton]

you're not going to clear the map with one melee guy using the hammer or stun lance. You may be able to with two melees and scytcher with maxed stats. Anyway it takes a lot of things to come together, the guy with the right perks, research, money, time, tons of SP to create this guy. When you do finally get scyther, the game is effectively over anyway and no one disputes that. So it being OP doesnt really matter as you've won the game

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Muton:

you're not going to clear the map with one melee guy using the hammer or stun lance. You may be able to with two melees and scytcher with maxed stats. Anyway it takes a lot of things to come together, the guy with the right perks, research, money, time, tons of SP to create this guy. When you do finally get scyther, the game is effectively over anyway and no one disputes that. So it being OP doesnt really matter as you've won the game

Maybe not against the pandorans, but ♥♥♥♥♥ hilariously broken against factions.

I have a footage somewhere of me murdering like 15 NJ soldiers in a row.

[Muton]

I think I did that too on the acquire the vehicle kaos engines where both synedrion and a ton of pandorans are all in the battle, everyone against everyone