Not understanding research

[onomastikon]

This is my first playthrough and I am trying to avoid TOO many spoilers, but since I am baffled by the research and the lack of in-game explanation, I checked out the wiki-guide and am now still confused.

I have found a couple of Synedrion weapons, or I guess I got them because I recruited from synedrion a bit. Anyhow, I cannot make ammo for them. From what I gather, I need to be able to research and then manufacture the weapons to be able to manufacture their ammo. So I get "supportive" of Synedrion and I still cannot research their tech, despite us having some of it "shared" which I can see in my research tab.

According to this "tech tree" here:
http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Sheepy%27s_Tech_Tree
I should be able to research "Laser Weapons" after having researched "Nuclear Fusion Tech". So I researched Nuclear Fusion and it's still not available. It's still not available after having become "Supportive".
Further confusing me is that according to this:
http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Synedrion_Research
Laser Tech is one of the five techs that are "already researched" at the start of a new game. I is this outdated? If so, I have to research these and at least one of them, the one I want: "Lasers" I still cannot access.

What gives? I'm confused. Is this data all outdated? Or what am I not understanding?
thanks in advance for replies

[Artek [General]]

In order to produce ammo for the weapon you need to learn how to make the weapon.
You can do it by 2 ways:
1) Reverse engineer the weapon (a waste of time and valuable assets)
2) Get and research the related tech from the respective faction (by either befriending them or stealing the research)

In this case you SPECIFICALLY need to succesfully research (by which i mean: finish the research project) "Laser Weapons". This will allow you to produce Synedrion's signature high-accuracy laser weapons (Sniper, Assault Rifle and a Pistol) AND their respective ammo.

If you don't have it - this means the faction haven't shared it with you yet.
The tech shares they provide from improved relationships are somewhat random, in my experience.

[onomastikon]

So the data to which I linked is false or outdated?
Thanks

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by onomastikon:

So the data to which I linked is false or outdated?
Thanks

I don't think it is necesserily outdated, just hard to understand.
What it seems to imply is that you need Nuclear Fusion research in order to be able to research Laser Weapons. Which could be true. The problem is that Synedron must ALSO share BOTH of these projects with you. So they could share Nuclear Fusion, but hold off on Laser Weapons.

I genuinely can't rememeber if i ever could research Laser before Nuclear... Kinda never paid to attention to it. If anything - i swear Synedrion kept sharing both with me and i could research them separately, but i could easily be wrong.

[onomastikon]

Alright thanks. I still don't understand when and under what circumstances I can research these things that they share with me. The article to which I linked suggested those five techs are "already researched" at game start - what am I not understanding?

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by onomastikon:

Alright thanks. I still don't understand when and under what circumstances I can research these things that they share with me. The article to which I linked suggested those five techs are "already researched" at game start - what am I not understanding?

I believe it means that its already researched SPECIFICALLY for the faction itself.

I doubled checked - and it checks out. They start the game ALREADY with laser weapons, their armour, their aircraft, nuclear fusion and sentient AIs (which means they research quicker than other factions).
The other 2 factions probably start with something similiar as well.

They already HAVE that research. What they share with you are scraps. They don't handle it to you completely in a finished form (you'll have to reach +76 standing for that to happen), but just basic pointers for you to finish it on your own.

This also implies that they can't share research with you that they haven't finished themselves yet. Not sure if that's true, but an interesting thing to keep an eye out.

[onomastikon]

Ok thanks 😊

[Mentalflows]

I reverse engineered Synedrion sniper rifles early and used it most time of the game. So I would not say it a waste. Ammo I got through the missions - drops, boxes.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by Mentalflows:

I reverse engineered Synedrion sniper rifles early and used it most time of the game. So I would not say it a waste. Ammo I got through the missions - drops, boxes.

Eh, it sort of is. It wastes your research facilities' time and it usually costs you like 2 instances of the gun, which means that's 2 instances you'll have to rebuild (or likewise 2 instances you could sell once they are not needed anymore).

You can do it, but its a short term gain with long term consequences and i just prefer not to do that. I'd rather just suffer with default / scavenged snipers until Syn finally share their research.

[Mentalflows]

yes and no....I almost didn't touch any "weapon" research after reversed sniper rifle, so kinda postponed pandoran evolution.

[onomastikon]

I have nothing to research. Nothing.

There is nothing available for me to research aside from reverse engineering stuff.

I assume this comes from very early game poor decisions from me, as I am only "supportive" (around 40%) with one faction, neutral with another and hostile with the third. I fell into the trap of accepting Diplo missions. (I think it's a poor design choice if that is really the cause of my problems).

I'm not sure if this is just a temporary setback or if I need to start over. I heard research is important. I'm still struggling to reach Antarctica.

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by onomastikon:

I have nothing to research. Nothing.

There is nothing available for me to research aside from reverse engineering stuff.

I assume this comes from very early game poor decisions from me, as I am only "supportive" (around 40%) with one faction, neutral with another and hostile with the third. I fell into the trap of accepting Diplo missions. (I think it's a poor design choice if that is really the cause of my problems).

I'm not sure if this is just a temporary setback or if I need to start over. I heard research is important. I'm still struggling to reach Antarctica.

Even if factions don't share their own research (and yes, its probably because of bad diplomatics) - you still should have plenty of your own research to do.
How are your autopsies? Pandoran base research? Have you cleared any nests / lairs / etc?
Have you captured any alive specimens?

[onomastikon]

Originally posted by Artek General:

Originally posted by onomastikon:

I have nothing to research. Nothing.

There is nothing available for me to research aside from reverse engineering stuff.

I assume this comes from very early game poor decisions from me, as I am only "supportive" (around 40%) with one faction, neutral with another and hostile with the third. I fell into the trap of accepting Diplo missions. (I think it's a poor design choice if that is really the cause of my problems).

I'm not sure if this is just a temporary setback or if I need to start over. I heard research is important. I'm still struggling to reach Antarctica.

Even if factions don't share their own research (and yes, its probably because of bad diplomatics) - you still should have plenty of your own research to do.
How are your autopsies? Pandoran base research? Have you cleared any nests / lairs / etc?
Have you captured any alive specimens?

Thanks.
And yes, I have cleared 3 nests, captured only 2 types of pandorans however (the others always seem to get killed), but I cannot do anything with them (extract mutagens) because Anu is hostile with me. I've completed all other research that I can complete, the only thing I currently have is reverse engineering, which I don't want to do.
I'm a bit disappointed that it seems I did not understand that accepting diplomatic "missions" from the diplomacy screen means a net loss and now only Synedrion likes me and Anu hates me.
So to further research do I need to steal tech from Anu until we go to war?

[Artek [General]]

Originally posted by onomastikon:

Originally posted by Artek General:

Even if factions don't share their own research (and yes, its probably because of bad diplomatics) - you still should have plenty of your own research to do.
How are your autopsies? Pandoran base research? Have you cleared any nests / lairs / etc?
Have you captured any alive specimens?

Thanks.
And yes, I have cleared 3 nests, captured only 2 types of pandorans however (the others always seem to get killed), but I cannot do anything with them (extract mutagens) because Anu is hostile with me. I've completed all other research that I can complete, the only thing I currently have is reverse engineering, which I don't want to do.
I'm a bit disappointed that it seems I did not understand that accepting diplomatic "missions" from the diplomacy screen means a net loss and now only Synedrion likes me and Anu hates me.
So to further research do I need to steal tech from Anu until we go to war?

Either that, or you can try stop doing diplomatic missions and try to get your Anu goodwill back. Maybe accept a diplo mission from them to compensate, or just stop accepting hit lists and focus on doing your only job - which is protecting havens and destroying Pandoran bases as soon as you find them.
The latter in particular improves relationships across the board.

You can also try gaining anu favour by picking random event options that favour them.
Particularly - whenever you find any unholy mutation consider telling Anu about it. They are always in search of new "holy sites".

I honestly don't know which option is better here. Never waged a war with a faction before.

[onomastikon]

Thanks. I've been trying to avoid spoilers so not sure I've been reading these events right. Also a bit of quasi roleplay, in that I honestly like the synedrion philosophy, find NJ reprehensible and Anu repulsive, but of course I'm also willing to be friends to save the planet.
I'd rather not restart and min max with everything I know now, but man am I disappointed.

[Nate]

Originally posted by Artek General:

In order to produce ammo for the weapon you need to learn how to make the weapon.
You can do it by 2 ways:
1) Reverse engineer the weapon (a waste of time and valuable assets)
2) Get and research the related tech from the respective faction (by either befriending them or stealing the research)

I have 4 synedrion laser assault rifles but no option to reverse engineer them. I do, however, have options to reverse engineer a variety of synedrion tech including sniper rifles, pistols, grenades, armor, and a bunch of others things, some of which came from shared tech, battlefield contraband, and synedrion recruits. I have not tracked which came from which, hence, my predicament. It would be nice to make ammo for these assault rifles as they are very useful.