what's your go-to filler weapon for assaults and heavies?

[snuggleform]

Baseline weapons I'll hand them good bashing weapon, good melee weapon, maybe shotgun, and neurazer.

What weapon do you prefer to give them for attacks beyond close range? A bulldog AR? A sniper rifle maybe even without proficiency? Something else?

[Dorok]

Firstly my base setup is different, no melee because bash does the job, no Neurazer because I find capturing annoying. For the Shotgun, only with Assault/Heavy, but it's also because I didn't consider much the option without the proficiency, still without Assault, I don't think the shotgun can work very well.

1. Mount Laser once available.
2. Shield for most Heavy to open positioning tactics preparing next turn, and sometimes to serve as lure. This also means I won't bother try some AR shot.
3. Flamethrower
4. Autocannon, or Hell Cannon, or MG or perhaps Acid Cannon (need try it more),
5. Bash replacing any melee.

For mid range Heavy, it's more:
1. Mount Laser once available.
2. Autocannon or Hell Cannon
3. MG or perhaps Acid Cannon (need try it more),
4. Shield or Flamethrower
5. Bash replacing any melee.

For Assault/Heavy, it's more:
1. Mount Laser once available.
2. Shotgun
3. Flamethrower
4. MG or AR
5. Bash replacing any melee.

For sure, in practice, I use more variations, sometimes use the Grenade Launcher, sometimes don't use a shield, could even use an SR but with the ability or Sniper class, more. For Infiltrator/Heavy I can mix both or have more of an infiltrator approach with a Heavy weapon option.

About your question on choice for choice having a longer range, the Heavy has a natural powerful long-range, but perhaps it will be nerfed a bit, the Mount Laser with max precision and range. Jetpack + Mount Laser shot is quite an option in parallel to Jetpack + Bash. But even more, you can move closer with 3 moves and still have a quite good attack with Mount Lazer.

Otherwise Sniper/Heavy with Jetpack and SR is also an option I like.

Otherwise, before the Mounted Laser, I prefer focus on positioning better a Heavy for the next turn than try some mid-range shot as with an AR.

[Tim_]

Depends very much on playstyle.

Snipers are the key for me. Early on in the game, my kill strategy revolves around sniper kills. When they reach level 4 they can dual class into either Assault (for Dash) or Infiltrator (for those nice damage boosts when in sneak mode). Later, with a Scorpion, most critters can be killed in one or two shots.

Early on, Assaults are mostly for spotting enemies and finishing things off or killing lightly or unarmoured opponents. As soon as they reach level 4, they can dual-class as snipers and then they have options. Give them a shotgun and they get meaner. Once they have the Shard guns, noone can mess with them. If the Assault has Biochemist skill, the Shard gun can pump them full of virus very quickly - it is THE way to capture a Scylla.

But Heavies? I barely use them now early on. There is usually one with a Jetpack for spotting, but otherwise they are largely carried until level 4 when I can dual-class these into snipers as well. Long ago, when Rage Burst was a good skill, I would use them more, but now, they are barely worth a slot for my playstyle until late game.

I just find the Heavy class to be wholly underwhelming untli late game, at which point the Boom Blast combined with the Rebuke grenade launcher is very nice, and the shoulder-launched missiles are fun.

[Dorok]

The Skorpion is just an OP weapon from an awfully designed DLC, argue on its base doesn't mean much, in my point of view.

Ok Heavy is better dual, but a style, this can be argued, it seems more you don't know use 3AP weapons without the Sniper skill, and use the Jetpack just for scouting is very limited. And clearly you never tried the Mounted Laser (great with any class, but even more with Jetpack). And I doubt you really tried the 2AP Flamethrower. Sorry, it looks a bit aggressive, but you really don't seem have tried learn use a Heavy without the Sniper skill.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Dorok:

The Skorpion is just an OP weapon from an awfully designed DLC, argue on its base doesn't mean much, in my point of view.

Ok Heavy is better dual, but a style, this can be argued, it seems more you don't know use 3AP weapons without the Sniper skill, and use the Jetpack just for scouting is very limited. And clearly you never tried the Mounted Laser (great with any class, but even more with Jetpack). And I doubt you really tried the 2AP Flamethrower. Sorry, it looks a bit aggressive, but you really don't seem have tried learn use a Heavy without the Sniper skill.

Dorok, less aggression on the forums please. And mounts are late or at least later game like he said. His experience is similar to mine. Boom Blast is pretty late game since it is in the later half of the skillchain.

[Tim_]

It is not a matter of "don't know how to use". I can read skill descriptions the same as anyone else.

It is a matter of preferred style. I have said elsewhere, I consider melee in a game like this to be anti-thematic and I personally choose not to use it.

I simply find it far more efficient to use "Quick Aim" with everything, to reduce AP use and allow more actual troop movement. Using 3AP is a static decision, and I like to keep moving unless setting up an ambush (at which nothing is better than snipers!).

As for the Scorpion - this is for mid to late game - and well, you are entitled to view it negatively. I view it as the ultimate weapon in this game, it fits both the genre and my playstyle perfectly, and I love it (along with the Shard gun and the Rebuke), and my squads are filled out with these three weapons once they are available.

YMMV.

[Dorok]

Ok, but you are comparing Heavy and Sniper/Heavy, your style isn't Heavy compatible, and the new way for SP makes the dual class cost used soon quite heavy.

[Dorok]

About second OP topic, the Assault base equip, I really don't have any special blueprint, but with most I use at least one AR, but all of them, including PP AR to avoid equip switching, and also the Living AR but I gave up switch it and gave it to one soldier.

Otherwise, it's with Shield or not, with melee or not, with extra weapon in inventory or not, sometimes with grenades or Assault Grenade Launcher, sometimes with Shotguns only and using the Slamstrike, sometimes even without any shotgun and 2 AR and Shield plus Trooper skill plus if available Reckless skill (that otherwise I avoid). And also a Mounted Laser and Heavy body armor (without using the Jetpack) if with the skill Bombardier. But I skip Sniperist and Strongman and never tried with PWD.

[x_equals_speed]

I'm surprised there isn't more love for the grenade launcher. The bombardier skill gives it a range of half of the map and reduces the firing cost to 1AP. Since it doesn't need a direct LOS I like having a heavy that I always move last so if something unexpected happens to someone else (spotting a new enemy in an unexpected position, missing a short ranged shot against something that'll kill them on its go etc.) I always have the option of dropping a pile of grenades to fix the problem.

A heavy used this way doesn't fire every turn, but when they do it saves your ass.

I also tried two assault/heavies using the Vidar. Since it's 1AP to fire and 1AP to reload at base your skills bring those to 0 and 0. Being able to fire 22 grenades in a turn is generally too expensive and too short term to be a good idea, but on some critical levels with large concentrations of enemies it was a fantastic opening gambit.

[ElPrezCBF]

I tend to go for grenade launcher early, not just for heavy rookies but also level 4 heavy cross-specialists. While it's tempting to prioritize other weapon types for the heavy, they do not get to level 4 immediately and early access to the grenade launcher would give them more opportunities to level up instead due to the longer range.

That said, replenishing multiple grenade launchers' ammo is very costly and something you might not be able to easily afford early on. They also have problems launching in indoor areas due to their high trajectory and so hand grenades are still needed in such situations. On top of that, you also need to spend enough XPs to increase the heavy's strength to carry the launcher and split the XP cost with giving speed buffs as well. So it's a careful balancing act.

After that, my next priority would be either an assault or sniper rifle depending on what I choose to cross-specialize the heavy in, which in turn depends on what personal traits he has to maximize his abilities. Overall, cross-training in different weapons is just for flexible response in specific situations that require it. Heavies should still primarily focus on using heavy weapons to maximize use of their unique class abilities and free up other classes to focus on theirs.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

I'm surprised there isn't more love for the grenade launcher. The bombardier skill gives it a range of half of the map and reduces the firing cost to 1AP. Since it doesn't need a direct LOS I like having a heavy that I always move last so if something unexpected happens to someone else (spotting a new enemy in an unexpected position, missing a short ranged shot against something that'll kill them on its go etc.) I always have the option of dropping a pile of grenades to fix the problem.

A heavy used this way doesn't fire every turn, but when they do it saves your ass.

I also tried two assault/heavies using the Vidar. Since it's 1AP to fire and 1AP to reload at base your skills bring those to 0 and 0. Being able to fire 22 grenades in a turn is generally too expensive and too short term to be a good idea, but on some critical levels with large concentrations of enemies it was a fantastic opening gambit.

How Grenade Launcher cost 1AP? The Assault Genade Launcher costs 1AP.

I don't use much the GL because of ammo price and cost is 3AP or 2AP with more WP used. No much useful but for rare usages. Grenades are much less safe now because they hit a random number of parts.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

I tend to go for grenade launcher early, not just for heavy rookies but also level 4 heavy cross-specialists. While it's tempting to prioritize other weapon types for the heavy, they do not get to level 4 immediately and early access to the grenade launcher would give them more opportunities to level up instead due to the longer range.

That said, replenishing multiple grenade launchers' ammo is very costly and something you might not be able to easily afford early on. They also have problems launching in indoor areas due to their high trajectory and so hand grenades are still needed in such situations. On top of that, you also need to spend enough XPs to increase the heavy's strength to carry the launcher and split the XP cost with giving speed buffs as well. So it's a careful balancing act.

After that, my next priority would be either an assault or sniper rifle depending on what I choose to cross-specialize the heavy in, which in turn depends on what personal traits he has to maximize his abilities. Overall, cross-training in different weapons is just for flexible response in specific situations that require it. Heavies should still primarily focus on using heavy weapons to maximize use of their unique class abilities and free up other classes to focus on theirs.

For me Berzerk and Assault are involved in armor shreding, even Sniper with part destruction, I don't let Heavy do all stuff. Now they are too much useful with Mount Laser, often SR won't match for first clean. Without mention Flamethrower opportunities against low armor enemies.

EDIT: If Mount Laser is nerfed, I'll see. :-)

[ElPrezCBF]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

I tend to go for grenade launcher early, not just for heavy rookies but also level 4 heavy cross-specialists. While it's tempting to prioritize other weapon types for the heavy, they do not get to level 4 immediately and early access to the grenade launcher would give them more opportunities to level up instead due to the longer range.

That said, replenishing multiple grenade launchers' ammo is very costly and something you might not be able to easily afford early on. They also have problems launching in indoor areas due to their high trajectory and so hand grenades are still needed in such situations. On top of that, you also need to spend enough XPs to increase the heavy's strength to carry the launcher and split the XP cost with giving speed buffs as well. So it's a careful balancing act.

After that, my next priority would be either an assault or sniper rifle depending on what I choose to cross-specialize the heavy in, which in turn depends on what personal traits he has to maximize his abilities. Overall, cross-training in different weapons is just for flexible response in specific situations that require it. Heavies should still primarily focus on using heavy weapons to maximize use of their unique class abilities and free up other classes to focus on theirs.

For me Berzerk and Assault are involved in armor shreding, even Sniper with part destruction, I don't let Heavy do all stuff. Now they are too much useful with Mount Laser, often SR won't match for first clean. Without mention Flamethrower opportunities against low armor enemies.

EDIT: If Mount Laser is nerfed, I'll see. :-)

I don't limit armor shredding by class since anything that shreds armor is good regardless who carries the weapon. Snipers are too specialized to do much of anything else because they typically stay out of most enemies' range. They work best when assaults or heavies soften up enemy armor and they finish the enemy.

[snuggleform]

Our styles are quite different, I use snipers to soften up enemy armor (with the weak point perk) then assault or heavies to clean up with their AP efficient weapons. Well, this is for cyclops in particular. Usually I just bash the crud out of everything and it works great.

[Dorok]

Both approaches are valid, and use only one isn't necessary apart if I don't see some special squad setup.

Why choose one or another is for me a matter of opportunity, now the game spread different armors levels, hence Heavy/Assault/Sniper could be better suited to exploit enemies with low armors asap. Heavy and Sniper for long-range, Heavy and Assault for less long-range. After that, those not having anything to disable or kill can bother on armor shredding.

[Herr Mainyu]

it depends on the bonus skills.
per default my layout is:

Shotgun/Assault Gun for Assault,
Tyr or Grenade launcher /Fury/Marduks Hammer for Heavy