Base Building

[zolobolo]

Is anything being planned to make base building more interesting and visually engaging?

Mentioned it a couple of times ago (pre-steam release) that this part does not contain any interesting decisions and the entire UI and the buildings themselves are very dull

[Phexfunk]

Most people build separate bases for different tasks - training etc. There 's more than meets the eye but its not really a "base building" game.

[zolobolo]

Yes its not the most important element of the game but was a core element in the original and done better in both XCOM remakes and Xenonauts - I was expecting the core game mechanic to be improved upon

There are far too many issues with the current design to list them all but some of the most noteworthy:
1. Planes are not visually represented anymore (this was a "feature" of the original game) - maybe with the festering skies DLC it will come dont know
2. There are almost no restrictions anymore on building: in the original, each base had a considerable build cost plus the building of necessary base infra. We just find everything and need to only repair it if we like which take out almost all of the decisions: bases, buildings are positioned already

So its an element that is both visually and mechanically very underwhelming

There is no shortage of energy, staff, place (one hangar covers all planes and many bases means endless space to build) no tile blockers, no adjacency bonus

There are so many ways this mechanic could have been improved upon (staffing by proximity of haven pops, buildings from factions and all the innovations other games have brought to the formula) so its strange why the game took 2 steps back from 1994 and there doesnt seem to be any motivation to improve it

[wei270]

if you notices that behind resources there are brackets like for food, i am sure there will be allow more for base building, they just don't have the resources to put them in yet.

[Mhblis]

Actually those are mostly left ivers from previous builds or worse there because if you have LoA thise resources get displayed differently. But the UI of the base game needs to accommodate it.

[zolobolo]

Yes, we have had food production building in the beginning- now its a faction specific building - food in general is not a big issue though as we always have a low number of troops to feed. The reason for taking it out was to prevent it from being an endless source of currency via trading

My proposal would instead to have staff that maintains the buildings and without food they would starve (instead of being a currency to "buy" troops" - suddenly it would be that bad to produce it ourselves.

But this is just one of many many issues- as is the entire base-building concept is weaker then the original game in the 90s

I know budget is tight but Indie Developers with 1-2 DEV team have done a better job in this aspect of the game

[Phexfunk]

Originally posted by zolobolo:

Yes its not the most important element of the game but was a core element in the original and done better in both XCOM remakes and Xenonauts - I was expecting the core game mechanic to be improved upon

There are far too many issues with the current design to list them all but some of the most noteworthy:
1. Planes are not visually represented anymore (this was a "feature" of the original game) - maybe with the festering skies DLC it will come dont know
2. There are almost no restrictions anymore on building: in the original, each base had a considerable build cost plus the building of necessary base infra. We just find everything and need to only repair it if we like which take out almost all of the decisions: bases, buildings are positioned already

So its an element that is both visually and mechanically very underwhelming

There is no shortage of energy, staff, place (one hangar covers all planes and many bases means endless space to build) no tile blockers, no adjacency bonus

There are so many ways this mechanic could have been improved upon (staffing by proximity of haven pops, buildings from factions and all the innovations other games have brought to the formula) so its strange why the game took 2 steps back from 1994 and there doesnt seem to be any motivation to improve it

There is no original version of Phoenix Point.

[EvilJoshy]

Base building could use an overhaul. All bases for me were practically the same. Except for a base that was built primarily for food production. It would also be nice if we had facilities that contributed to base defense. In the old XCOM games when you base was being attacked your defenses fired at the UFO. If you had enough defenses you could destroy the UFO before it landed. Preventing the need to defend the base at all.

[zolobolo]

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

There is no original version of Phoenix Point.

The original version was this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enemy_Unknown_(1994_video_game)
If you look at the Designers they might be familiar :)

The more successful remakes of that game have streamlined a lot of things and thus the feeling and depth of the original was somewhat lost.

PP was introduced as the remake of the original that would include the advancements in tech and mechanics but keeping the originals depth

[Crypto Gamer]

Auto base defence turrets would be nice or "building"turrets which can be used ingame todefend the base missions.

[Phexfunk]

Originally posted by zolobolo:

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

There is no original version of Phoenix Point.

The original version was this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enemy_Unknown_(1994_video_game)
If you look at the Designers they might be familiar :)

The more successful remakes of that game have streamlined a lot of things and thus the feeling and depth of the original was somewhat lost.

PP was introduced as the remake of the original that would include the advancements in tech and mechanics but keeping the originals depth

I know the game and played it back then, but PP has nothing to do with that game apart from the general idea being Gollops.

[SpiteAndMalice]

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

I know the game and played it back then, but PP has nothing to do with that game apart from the general idea being Gollops.

PP was marketed as being the spiritual successor to X-COM.

https://www.dualshockers.com/x-com-creator-phoenix-point-crowdfunding/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/phoenix-point/xcom-remake-julian-gollop

[Phexfunk]

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

I know the game and played it back then, but PP has nothing to do with that game apart from the general idea being Gollops.

PP was marketed as being the spiritual successor to X-COM.

https://www.dualshockers.com/x-com-creator-phoenix-point-crowdfunding/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/phoenix-point/xcom-remake-julian-gollop

No it really wasn't. Those are third party reviews.

[zolobolo]

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

No it really wasn't. Those are third party reviews.

https://phoenixpoint.info/game
"Phoenix Point is the new strategy game from the creator of the original X-COM series."

But we can look at the game also by ignoring the fact its designer is the designer of an almost perfectly identical game that was also the bases of other identical type games which this new title is lifting over mechanics from :):
Just comparing the current base building system with that of the competitors: Xenonauts and XCOM (Firaxis ones) is vastly inferior and Xenonauts dev team was something like 2 persons

Worst: It falls short of its own ambition: the reduced amount of base building space and the tile blockers in each base point towards the fact that the system should have posed a challenge to players in what to build where but this is simply not the case:
1. A single reactor can power the entire base
2. There is barely any buildings to build and they are less important then in any other title e.g.: you can get resources without buildings, steal tech or get tech from alliance and the more advanced planes and tanks are not researched but stolen or received via alliance. Weapons can also be looted from numerous situations - which is cool as a game concept overall but leaves base building hollow as why would you build a bunch of factories then :)
3. Any space limitation or need to build buildings despite the above is instantly nullified when the player starts reactivating further bases that already come with all the stuff you need

So I have to ask: whats the point?

So my argument is that base building is broken not just compared to the original and to other remakes but also compared to the goals the game clearly tried to set for itself
Is it going to be fixed? I have more and more the feeling that it will never be
On a more esoteric level: each building sports the same colors (yellow and grey with some red tint) which makes them all look identical - they have icons and the name of the room also displayed which helps in identifying what is in there for sure but you have now reached level 3 redundancy whereas a nice room design does this in a single step (and maybe even costs less if not 3D model)

[SpiteAndMalice]

Originally posted by Phexfunk:

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

PP was marketed as being the spiritual successor to X-COM.

https://www.dualshockers.com/x-com-creator-phoenix-point-crowdfunding/

https://www.pcgamesn.com/phoenix-point/xcom-remake-julian-gollop

No it really wasn't. Those are third party reviews.

You're wrong, neither of those articles is a review, but then I guess realising that would have required you to actually read them ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7KDTyePIc8

[zolobolo]

Originally posted by SpiteAndMalice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7KDTyePIc8

Wow: Have you noticed that at around the 50 seconds mark there are 3 aliens none of which I have seen in the final game even though they look like cool finished models :)

Also and this drives me crazy: Have you seen the tactical UI e,g, at mark: 3:07?
It looks waaaastly superior to the end product: the soldier art is much more clear and stylized here (no colorful jarring background and tiny pics) and the item swap menu is just perfect

Maybe the whole game got redesigned half-way through and all these cool UIs, enemy units and the base MGMT concept needed to be scrapped and replaced with something else in the last minute?