Inevitable TTS comparison

[Loriborn]

It's impossible to develop a game like this and not expect the inevitable comparisons to Tabletop Simulator, which has a firm grasp on the genre of "virtual tabletop experiences." TTS has a very mature custom content community, with a well documented custom content pipeline, with deep support for scripting with lua integration.

My question is, what is TP bringing to the "table" (ha) that is going to make it a valid competitor with TTS? Even if this is a decent game, the fact that TTS is such a mainstream and omnipresent title, means that it'll be difficult to convince players to leave TTS for TP. If TTS "gets the job done," has a slew of real world games that are easily accessible already via the Steam Workshop, and is already owned by a majority of players interested in playing board games virtually, how will TP convince those players who are more than content with what we have, to spend the additional money for another game that does essentially the same thing?

Even the store page seems to only list features that are identical to those found in TTS, down to the extremely limited player count. If these features are the major draws to this game, I don't expect it to be able to win over anybody already satisfied with TTS. What exactly do you all have in store for this game that you expect to convince the virtual tabletop community to stratify between these two games?

If there was, perhaps, even more in-depth scripting support, larger play areas, significant performance improvements, larger player count, etc. I could see TP being a valid contender; ideally, TP could focus on the wargaming elements that TTS struggles to handle well, but again, this would totally depend on implementation.

Thoughts?

[fulanomengano]

I had very similar thought when I saw the "trailer" video. IMO, the only way TTS could be replaced by another "game" is that they offer a scripting language that allows to program games rules into a mod. E.g. you can only take action X if you meet Y and Z conditions.

[Loriborn]

Interestingly, you can already accomplish something like this using buttons and preventing regular TTS interaction. It's not ideal, but it's possible enough that extremely scripted games can force players to abide by things like turn/action restrictions; this game would have to have their scripting system not only be more powerful, but support features like that natively out of the box.

[Plasticity Studios]

Hi, thanks for the well-posed question! A few comments on your examples:

General scripting support is one of the most important features on the roadmap. The game has been programmed with scripting support in mind, but the implementation is a larger effort and will not be ready for the start of Early Access. Right now, thanks to the editor and the concept of game packages, things like multiple starting configurations are already possible without scripting.

Larger play areas should be possible, though I'm not sure what the limitations of TTS are in that regard. Instead of performance improvements, there are more modern graphics including optional fully 3D environments. I'm also aiming for fluid and responsive interactions even for higher lags.

The current player count limitation is somewhat arbitrary. I believe the game could handle more on hosts with good connections, but I haven't gotten around to testing that yet. So the supported player count may well increase in the future.

Finally, supporting a good wargaming experience is a major focus for Tabletop Playground - you can find a hint in the logo ;). There are already various features that are useful for wargaming (for example movement history, angle measurements, or two-color schemes for army customization), and I have recently started to engage with the The 9th Age community [www.the-ninth-age.com] to get feedback on how to improve the game for wargaming.

[koholos]

Originally posted by Plasticity Studios:

Finally, supporting a good wargaming experience is a major focus for Tabletop Playground - you can find a hint in the logo ;). There are already various features that are useful for wargaming (for example movement history, angle measurements, or two-color schemes for army customization), and I have recently started to engage with the The 9th Age community [www.the-ninth-age.com] to get feedback on how to improve the game for wargaming.

When you say wargaming experience do you mean chit and cardboard, or do you mean miniatures garbage? Because TTS is pretty clunky for ASL and DVG stuff, but otherwise, I don't see any real need for an alternative.

[Adzi]

hey, if TS is going to be better and more comfortable for miniature gaming, then I'm in. Things to consider implementing, if possible, or looking into ways to implement:
- it should be made relatively easy to turn around groups of objects around any point desired - like, for example, the wheeling maneuver from WFB, turning a formation around one of its corners. Or the pivot from KoW, turning around the very middle - trivial if minis are mounted on a singular base, but problematic otherwise
- ability to turn thing around all 3 pivots without being constrained to fixed angle increments. TTS allows only turning around 2 of 3 pivots and only at increments (you have to use Gizmo Tool for more, and it's clunkier that way)
- easier fine control over object moved in 3D environment. TTS is currently somewhat annoying when trying to play skirmish games based on 3D terrain, like Mordheim or Necromunda, because it either autoraises held miniatures, or leaves no quick method to "jump" it higher.

Another thing to consider is a way to make things stop tumbling from slopes when released on them.

-ability to - even temporarily - merge several objects into one. TTS has the "joint" option, but it's not ideal if you just want to combine several objects into one, as it sometimes leads to situations, when a weird collision conflict leads to the whole combination spazzing out, sweeping off everything not locked on a table and actually erasing it. An option when jointed objects will stop counting any collisions against each other, be always selected as a whole and will just move and turn as one, keeping their relative position towards each other and pivots of the whole, and not shake and swing around when suddenly moved, causing unneeded noise and CPU load, would be appreciated.
(ofc, there should be then a separate option allowing to once again interact with merged objects separately, and possibly separate them. Dividing singular objects into parts would be, of course, impossible, and not as neccessary)
- possibly, the ability to check and/or influence the dimensions of objects without having to painstakingly measure them "manually" and then calculate how the object must be scaled. I want to be able to just write that this stick will be 180mm long and have it be such. Or something else in inches.

[Conker]

if the devs manage to offer more options for dummies iam all in ;)

in tts you cant even make a character sheet without clunky scripting

judging on the video it may blow tts out if the water with the "dummies" customize menus
(just dont forget shortcuts like card flips / peek and stuff for easy gameplay sessions ;) )

Originally posted by Plasticity Studios:

Hi, thanks for the well-posed question! A few comments on your examples:

There are already various features that are useful for wargaming (for example movement history, angle measurements, or two-color schemes for army customization), and I have recently started to engage with the The 9th Age community [www.the-ninth-age.com] to get feedback on how to improve the game for wargaming.

hmmm sounds like our dnd sessions may find a new home

please make sure you focus a little bit on pen and paper too :D

but if you manage to offer everything that tts got + expand on those features then this game will be a blast ;) ... hell tts is awesome af even when its a little bit clunky sometimes

[4g0tt3nSou1]

What lengths are being made to reduce ping and load (and the resulting lag) that you find in TTS?

[Plasticity Studios]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Some of that should already be possible (object movement in 3D environments, turning object groups around different pivots), and the ability to move multiple objects as one is one of the next things to be implemented.

The priority of miniature wargaming currently ranges above pen and paper or games like ASL. That doesn't mean that they won't work well, but if there are specific features that are needed for these kinds of games only, they probably won't be ready at the start of Early Access.

As for dealing with lag, Tabletop Playground implements some tricks to make the game feel responsive even with higher pings. And the whole object system is designed to minimize information that needs to be sent over the network, which helps to reduce lag.