Kasumi vs Phase 4

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

So, I'm at work, browsing the DLC list and noticed that although the Deluxe states Phase 4 is exclusive there, she's also obtainable as a DLC, so I looked up if she is different to Kasumi or just a reskin, and sadly I couldn't find anything for DoA 6, unless I'm blind, but since it's me we're talking about, that could very well be the case.

For 5 they said she has fewer combos and such, so I thought of asking the smart guys with the info, so here I am.

Is there any meaningful difference between the two?

[A-tanatos-Ω]

Of course) And combo input for Phase much harder. They have same moves, but overall these are different characters(both fast).

[Gehenna]

They are very different characters. Don't be fooled by their similar looks. Kasumi is a great all-around character with an emphasis on rush-down. Phase 4 is more combo oriented with a huge emphasis in execution and timing. IMO, Phase 4 is the most execution-heavy character in the game and one of the hardest ones to get good at. That means you will spend a lot of time in the training room practicing the timing of her combos. Kasumi, on the other hand, is a much better choice for new players.

While both characters share some basic core moves, the attacks and combos Phase 4 executes from her teleport are completely different than Kasumi's. Kasumi is also much more safe on block than Phase 4. Even for the moves that they do share, Phase 4 tends to be more minus or unsafe on block for the same move. Her reward, though, is typically being able to pull off much longer combos and juggles than Kasumi once she gets going.

They are two completely different characters and should be played very differently.

[Mith]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

They are very different characters. Don't be fooled by their similar looks. Kasumi is a great all-around character with an emphasis on rush-down. Phase 4 is more combo oriented with a huge emphasis in execution and timing. IMO, Phase 4 is the most execution-heavy character in the game and one of the hardest ones to get good at. That means you will spend a lot of time in the training room practicing the timing of her combos. Kasumi, on the other hand, is a much better choice for new players.

While both characters share some basic core moves, the attacks and combos Phase 4 executes from her teleport are completely different than Kasumi's. Kasumi is also much more safe on block than Phase 4. Even for the moves that they do share, Phase 4 tends to be more minus or unsafe on block for the same move. Her reward, though, is typically being able to pull off much longer combos and juggles than Kasumi once she gets going.

They are two completely different characters and should be played very differently.

Thats a perfect answer.

I just would add that Phase 4 is harder to read. If you are trying to decide if her playstyle suits you, check this video first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWz8Ve8zqDM&feature=emb_logo

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

They are very different characters. Don't be fooled by their similar looks. Kasumi is a great all-around character with an emphasis on rush-down. Phase 4 is more combo oriented with a huge emphasis in execution and timing. IMO, Phase 4 is the most execution-heavy character in the game and one of the hardest ones to get good at. That means you will spend a lot of time in the training room practicing the timing of her combos. Kasumi, on the other hand, is a much better choice for new players.

While both characters share some basic core moves, the attacks and combos Phase 4 executes from her teleport are completely different than Kasumi's. Kasumi is also much more safe on block than Phase 4. Even for the moves that they do share, Phase 4 tends to be more minus or unsafe on block for the same move. Her reward, though, is typically being able to pull off much longer combos and juggles than Kasumi once she gets going.

They are two completely different characters and should be played very differently.

So basically, Phase 4 is the more elegant. Sounds exactly my type, wonder if she's single

I always preferred the more complex characters in games so it's cool, tho I was under the assumption that Honoka was the hardest due to her different stances and ability to go from one to another.

Originally posted by Mith:

Thats a perfect answer.

I just would add that Phase 4 is harder to read. If you are trying to decide if her playstyle suits you, check this video first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWz8Ve8zqDM&feature=emb_logo

Thanks for the vid, will check it once I'm home.

[Sigma993]

I've recently picked up Phase 4 and can confirm that she is really hard to play yet fun!

The idea behind her teleports is similar to Kasumis but make no mistake, she differs quiet a lot from her!

Imo Phase 4 feels very similar to 2D characters since she can cancel a lot mid-string and catch the opponent off-guard.

Executionwise she is pretty hard to play since she relies on exact timing.
She is extremely unsafe as well which is why u need to learn her frame-data to keep up with experienced players.
If u play a against an opponent that knows how she works it can be quiet difficult to deal with them.
Additionally a bad connection can really screw u over!

All in all after I learned most of her combos + cancels I consider her to be one of the most fun characters in the game, but u really need to stick with her and practice a lot!
She's not a character u can easily pick up and learn within 2 hrs like certain other ones.
I think she's the by far hardest character to play but super rewarding!

[Gehenna]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

They are very different characters. Don't be fooled by their similar looks. Kasumi is a great all-around character with an emphasis on rush-down. Phase 4 is more combo oriented with a huge emphasis in execution and timing. IMO, Phase 4 is the most execution-heavy character in the game and one of the hardest ones to get good at. That means you will spend a lot of time in the training room practicing the timing of her combos. Kasumi, on the other hand, is a much better choice for new players.

While both characters share some basic core moves, the attacks and combos Phase 4 executes from her teleport are completely different than Kasumi's. Kasumi is also much more safe on block than Phase 4. Even for the moves that they do share, Phase 4 tends to be more minus or unsafe on block for the same move. Her reward, though, is typically being able to pull off much longer combos and juggles than Kasumi once she gets going.

They are two completely different characters and should be played very differently.

So basically, Phase 4 is the more elegant. Sounds exactly my type, wonder if she's single

I always preferred the more complex characters in games so it's cool, tho I was under the assumption that Honoka was the hardest due to her different stances and ability to go from one to another.

Originally posted by Mith:

Thats a perfect answer.

I just would add that Phase 4 is harder to read. If you are trying to decide if her playstyle suits you, check this video first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWz8Ve8zqDM&feature=emb_logo

Thanks for the vid, will check it once I'm home.

I'm not a Honoka expert, hell I'm not a DOA expert either, but I've been really engrossed by the game and have been trying to learn as much as possible. I've done some research on how to play Honoka and dabbled a bit with her. While I wouldn't call her easy, managing stances is not as big of a deal as I initially thought.

She changes stances mostly by doing an attack or attack string that leads into a stance. Which means that, unless the opening strike of the attack/string is relevant to the current situation, you probably will not be switching to that stance. For the most part, you will flow into and out of her stances as part of a basic attack string or ground combo and it won't be too different than doing combos for most of the other characters.

It's also very rare to switch from one stance to another. You won't be going Dragon Stance into Drunken Master into Bokuho, for example. Most of her stances either end up with her going back to her basic default stance, or end with her Burning Fist (Hissatsu no Mae IIRC) stance.

In short, she is complex but not as much as it seems on the surface.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

So basically, Phase 4 is the more elegant. Sounds exactly my type, wonder if she's single

I always preferred the more complex characters in games so it's cool, tho I was under the assumption that Honoka was the hardest due to her different stances and ability to go from one to another.





Thanks for the vid, will check it once I'm home.

I'm not a Honoka expert, hell I'm not a DOA expert either, but I've been really engrossed by the game and have been trying to learn as much as possible. I've done some research on how to play Honoka and dabbled a bit with her. While I wouldn't call her easy, managing stances is not as big of a deal as I initially thought.

She changes stances mostly by doing an attack or attack string that leads into a stance. Which means that, unless the opening strike of the attack/string is relevant to the current situation, you probably will not be switching to that stance. For the most part, you will flow into and out of her stances as part of a basic attack string or ground combo and it won't be too different than doing combos for most of the other characters.

It's also very rare to switch from one stance to another. You won't be going Dragon Stance into Drunken Master into Bokuho, for example. Most of her stances either end up with her going back to her basic default stance, or end with her Burning Fist (Hissatsu no Mae IIRC) stance.

In short, she is complex but not as much as it seems on the surface.

So basically, Honoka has a high skill floor but not too high of a skill ceiling while Phase 4 is both high skill floor and ceiling.

What about Nyotengu or Ayane?

Just curious now

[Sigma993]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

I'm not a Honoka expert, hell I'm not a DOA expert either, but I've been really engrossed by the game and have been trying to learn as much as possible. I've done some research on how to play Honoka and dabbled a bit with her. While I wouldn't call her easy, managing stances is not as big of a deal as I initially thought.

She changes stances mostly by doing an attack or attack string that leads into a stance. Which means that, unless the opening strike of the attack/string is relevant to the current situation, you probably will not be switching to that stance. For the most part, you will flow into and out of her stances as part of a basic attack string or ground combo and it won't be too different than doing combos for most of the other characters.

It's also very rare to switch from one stance to another. You won't be going Dragon Stance into Drunken Master into Bokuho, for example. Most of her stances either end up with her going back to her basic default stance, or end with her Burning Fist (Hissatsu no Mae IIRC) stance.

In short, she is complex but not as much as it seems on the surface.

So basically, Honoka has a high skill floor but not too high of a skill ceiling while Phase 4 is both high skill floor and ceiling.

What about Nyotengu or Ayane?

Just curious now

Nyotengu is actually quiet easy execution wise but dealing with the faster characters can be quiet tricky since she's very slow. She relies a lot on her P+K (very hard to react to it) and baiting people into holds.
U basically always want to launch ur opponent into the air so u can do ur air combo!

Ayane on the other hand I think is one of the harder characters to learn!
Her inputs aren't super hard but she's all about "going in, attack and immediately retreat".
She has some moves that are extremely unsafe and downright useless bc of it.
That said Ayane is still one of the best characters in the game if u can play her properly!

[Gehenna]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

So basically, Honoka has a high skill floor but not too high of a skill ceiling while Phase 4 is both high skill floor and ceiling.

What about Nyotengu or Ayane?

Just curious now

I would agree with that assessment of Honoka and Phase 4.

I can talk more about Ayane since she is my main. While I have been learning Nyotengu a bit, I don't consider myself savvy enough to inform anyone on her play style.

Ayane is primarily a zoner and mix-up character. On the zoning front, she has a wide array of moves to keep her opponents at bay. The ideal scenario for Ayane is to have a health lead on her opponent and force them to come at her while she denies them, either through attacks that tend to have priority over her opponent's, attacks that crush incoming attacks, or through her mobility options.

When she does need to get in up close, she has several mix up options to confuse her opponent in the form of her long range attacks or her spinning and rolling stances. However, using your mixup options is a must against decent players. Ayane is very unsafe on block so mid-level and higher players that know how to throw punish will make you pay dearly if you just run up to them and mash buttons.

She definitely requires finesse to play well at the higher levels. You need to develop the discipline to not mash and do precise inputs so that you have more control of your mixups (both her rolling and spinning stances can be optionally switched to from different strings and mashing buttons will not get you to switch). And you have to keep your mixups fresh in order to keep your opponent on their toes. Otherwise all they have to do is block with a bit of patience and then throw you when your string finishes.

I'd say she has a moderate skill floor but a high skill ceiling. A poorly played Ayane plays out like a gimped rush down character (though still somewhat effective) but a well played one is a confusing nightmare to deal with.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

So basically, Honoka has a high skill floor but not too high of a skill ceiling while Phase 4 is both high skill floor and ceiling.

What about Nyotengu or Ayane?

Just curious now

I would agree with that assessment of Honoka and Phase 4.

I can talk more about Ayane since she is my main. While I have been learning Nyotengu a bit, I don't consider myself savvy enough to inform anyone on her play style.

Ayane is primarily a zoner and mix-up character. On the zoning front, she has a wide array of moves to keep her opponents at bay. The ideal scenario for Ayane is to have a health lead on her opponent and force them to come at her while she denies them, either through attacks that tend to have priority over her opponent's, attacks that crush incoming attacks, or through her mobility options.

When she does need to get in up close, she has several mix up options to confuse her opponent in the form of her long range attacks or her spinning and rolling stances. However, using your mixup options is a must against decent players. Ayane is very unsafe on block so mid-level and higher players that know how to throw punish will make you pay dearly if you just run up to them and mash buttons.

She definitely requires finesse to play well at the higher levels. You need to develop the discipline to not mash and do precise inputs so that you have more control of your mixups (both her rolling and spinning stances can be optionally switched to from different strings and mashing buttons will not get you to switch). And you have to keep your mixups fresh in order to keep your opponent on their toes. Otherwise all they have to do is block with a bit of patience and then throw you when your string finishes.

I'd say she has a moderate skill floor but a high skill ceiling. A poorly played Ayane plays out like a gimped rush down character (though still somewhat effective) but a well played one is a confusing nightmare to deal with.

Sounds fun.

I mainly play Marie and Mai, while the friend I use to play a lot with is a big fan of Bass and Rig.

I was thinking to expand a little to Kasumi, Nyotengu and Ayane, but then I saw that Phase 4 is also as a DLC so I made this thread, and maybe take on Phase 4 instead of Kasumi.

[Gehenna]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

Sounds fun.

I mainly play Marie and Mai, while the friend I use to play a lot with is a big fan of Bass and Rig.

I was thinking to expand a little to Kasumi, Nyotengu and Ayane, but then I saw that Phase 4 is also as a DLC so I made this thread, and maybe take on Phase 4 instead of Kasumi.

Its a slightly tough spot, IMO. You kinda need to learn at least the basics of Kasumi so that you can better fight her. She is one of the stronger characters in the game and also extremely common so knowing how to play her will help you in dealing with her.

That being said, Phase 4 is much less common, in part because she is DLC and in part because she requires a lot of practice and dedication. That would make your pick much more unique. I've thought about getting serious with Phase 4 myself (my mains are Ayane and Kokoro) but, quite frankly, I'm still learning the fundamentals of DOA so I'm trying not to bite off too much at a time.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

Sounds fun.

I mainly play Marie and Mai, while the friend I use to play a lot with is a big fan of Bass and Rig.

I was thinking to expand a little to Kasumi, Nyotengu and Ayane, but then I saw that Phase 4 is also as a DLC so I made this thread, and maybe take on Phase 4 instead of Kasumi.

Its a slightly tough spot, IMO. You kinda need to learn at least the basics of Kasumi so that you can better fight her. She is one of the stronger characters in the game and also extremely common so knowing how to play her will help you in dealing with her.

That being said, Phase 4 is much less common, in part because she is DLC and in part because she requires a lot of practice and dedication. That would make your pick much more unique. I've thought about getting serious with Phase 4 myself (my mains are Ayane and Kokoro) but, quite frankly, I'm still learning the fundamentals of DOA so I'm trying not to bite off too much at a time.

I've played a decent bit of Kasumi both in 5 and 6, just never went that serious with her. I can consistently pull off a couple of her teleport moves but it's not something to the point where I can comfortably play her the same way I do with Mai or Marie.

My main gripe so far is with the grabs and throws, I can't pull off those consistently.

I like Kokoro as a character and she seems fun, but for me at least (and at least in 5) she felt clunky, maybe I wasn't playing her correctly, who knows.

[Gehenna]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

I've played a decent bit of Kasumi both in 5 and 6, just never went that serious with her. I can consistently pull off a couple of her teleport moves but it's not something to the point where I can comfortably play her the same way I do with Mai or Marie.

My main gripe so far is with the grabs and throws, I can't pull off those consistently.

I like Kokoro as a character and she seems fun, but for me at least (and at least in 5) she felt clunky, maybe I wasn't playing her correctly, who knows.

I see. If you've been tinkering with Kasumi since DOA5 then maybe try Phase 4 instead.

As for Kokoro, she also felt a bit clunky and unresponsive to me at first. But after I started getting more comfortable with her move set, she started flowing quite a bit better. I honestly think she's an underrated character.

And regarding throws, anything specific about them that bothers you? The main things are: 1. You cannot throw a stunned opponent. 2. Your throw will fail to connect if your opponent starts or lands a strike during the throw animation. The second point is what makes throws risky to do in the middle of an opponent's attack string. Best time to throw is when you suspect the opponent is about to hold (or you get a hard read on the hold), or after you just blocked an unsafe move with no follow ups. Gotta be lightning quick about it though or it will fail if they start another attack.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Nekomimi Madness:

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

I've played a decent bit of Kasumi both in 5 and 6, just never went that serious with her. I can consistently pull off a couple of her teleport moves but it's not something to the point where I can comfortably play her the same way I do with Mai or Marie.

My main gripe so far is with the grabs and throws, I can't pull off those consistently.

I like Kokoro as a character and she seems fun, but for me at least (and at least in 5) she felt clunky, maybe I wasn't playing her correctly, who knows.

I see. If you've been tinkering with Kasumi since DOA5 then maybe try Phase 4 instead.

As for Kokoro, she also felt a bit clunky and unresponsive to me at first. But after I started getting more comfortable with her move set, she started flowing quite a bit better. I honestly think she's an underrated character.

And regarding throws, anything specific about them that bothers you? The main things are: 1. You cannot throw a stunned opponent. 2. Your throw will fail to connect if your opponent starts or lands a strike during the throw animation. The second point is what makes throws risky to do in the middle of an opponent's attack string. Best time to throw is when you suspect the opponent is about to hold (or you get a hard read on the hold), or after you just blocked an unsafe move with no follow ups. Gotta be lightning quick about it though or it will fail if they start another attack.

My main issue with Kokoro is how many throws she has comboed in, since I always suck at them, she felt off for me.

I think the one I had most problems with, lemme see if I can remember correctly, half circle back T, back T, back forward T. Not sure if I remembered or explained correctly, will try to look later for the name of the move.

Not saying she's bad, far from it, just doesn't click with me. Maybe I'll give her another try, in DoA 6 this time, when I'll get some more spare money. Rent is a pain I tell you.

Guess I just gotta learn what is safe and what's unsafe, DoA is the only fighting game I dabbled with, simply because for me, the characters feel more...alive? so to say.

[Gehenna]

Originally posted by I:P マスカレーナ:

My main issue with Kokoro is how many throws she has comboed in, since I always suck at them, she felt off for me.

I think the one I had most problems with, lemme see if I can remember correctly, half circle back T, back T, back forward T. Not sure if I remembered or explained correctly, will try to look later for the name of the move.

Not saying she's bad, far from it, just doesn't click with me. Maybe I'll give her another try, in DoA 6 this time, when I'll get some more spare money. Rent is a pain I tell you.

Guess I just gotta learn what is safe and what's unsafe, DoA is the only fighting game I dabbled with, simply because for me, the characters feel more...alive? so to say.

I know which throw you are talking about.Yeah that's the right input. I also struggled with it for a while until I realized I had to slow down when entering the back T and back forward T. Was doing them too quick and the throw would usually end at the second hit.

The main thing that has helped me get more comfortable with throws outside of doing them against a holding opponent is doing them after hitting my opponent with a small stun. You can't throw a stunned opponent but you can stun so that they wake up just as the throw connects, which makes them a valid target.

For example, Ayane's 3PK (diagonal down forward P, K) does a 9 frame stun if the K hits. If I follow up with a neutral throw, it will fail to connect because a neutral throw lands on the 7th frame (all moves connect on startup frames + 2 and neutral throw has 5 startup frames) and the opponent is still stunned.

However, If I follow up with a forward T which connects on the 9th frame (forward T has 7 startup frames, so 7 + 2), the character wakes up from the stun just as the throw connects, making them a valid target and only giving them one frame in which they can input a response. Similarly, a 12 frame stun will allow your 10 frame throw to land in a frame-perfect way. Ayane's forward K inflicts a 12 frame stun on hit, so sometimes I follow with a 10 frame throw (quarter circle forward T) instead of the normal string follow ups (down K or neutral K). And finally, Ayane's forward forward KK inflicts a 14 frame stun, allowing me to more safely execute a 12 frame throw (quarter circle back T or forward back T are both 12 frame throws).

There are many more throw setups for her (KK sets her up for her 25 frame up T throw, for example.) but throw setups in general are available to all characters and I highly recommend you review your character's short stun attacks and see what throws are ideal to follow up with based on the above. It makes a huge difference.