Abyss Puzzle 10 (metathesis) - did I cheese it

[Stoney140]

Curious if the solution I carried out was intended or not because it felt a little cheap. I set up the three RGB's in the obvious way to open the barrier, with the green one right by it. I took the fourth RGB, connected it to both laser sources and the two outer RGB's, and then I placed it down on the other side of the gate and quickly picked up the first one. So the new RGB became the new green one, and the first was removed quickly enough that none of the lasers clashed enough to block the connection so the gate stayed open. It just felt a bit wrong, and while I struggled to find an alternative solution it wouldn't surprise me with how hard they can be that I just missed it.

[Stoney140]

On a related note, my solution for Stylite also felt a bit wrong (I put the final connector to join to the red receiver on top of the inactive fan platform to get it to reach high enough to connect), but that at least seemed a bit more like a reasonable solution. Would appreciate dev notes if that was a wrong way too lmao. Can sometimes be hard to tell with these tougher puzzles with more esoteric intended solutions.

[Roman971]

I think I found the intended solution for Metathesis, or at least it's a solution that doesn't require timing or any quick action and feels correct.

Here is a hint before I give the full solution:
The connectors opening the side rooms remain important in the second part of the puzzle.

Full solution:
Basically the idea is the same with a green RGB in the middle and the fourth RGB on the other side of the gate that we want to become the new green source. But the trick is to set up the middle RGB with extra connections to the all 4 connectors in the room, in a way that cuts the laser going from and to the 4th RGB so it doesn't interfere and the door remains open.
It should look like this once set up: https://imgur.com/a/jjxxvFp
Then you can just pick up the middle RGB at any time and the 4th one on the other side of the door will instantly take over as the new green source, keeping the door open.

As for Stylite I ended up doing the same thing you mentioned with the fan platform and it does feel a bit wrong, but I couldn't think of anything else so far.

[Stoney140]

Yeah that definitely looks correct (and explains why those seemingly superfluous extra doors were there! Compared to the very similar puzzle earlier on that had no such thing). Really sad it was cheese-able now because I would've loved to have figured that out myself.

[Stoney140]

Actually going in game and trying to do that - obviously it works in the end but how do you set it up? I can't find a way to set it up without breaking connections to the door meaning you can't go through it.

[Roman971]

If you mean how to set up the 4th RGB on the other side of the door, you have to connect it to the red and blue sources and the 2 RGBs on the side which will indeed break connections, but that's fine as long as you can cross back to the main room before it happens (or you can align the RGBs on the side with their respective source when connecting the 4th RGB, so it doesn't break connections at all, then you can reposition them later).

[Stoney140]

Yeah I couldn't figure how to do it without crossing before breaking beams (since that's what felt cheesey to begin with!) - but yeah the second part follows on. Damn that's tough, definitely the hardest puzzle in Abyss so far! Again sad that I cheated it

[sureyoucan]

Is this another cheese method? Works for 8 and 10 level. You can activate laser lock from slightly other side of gate then pickup inside device that was responsible for it and done. https://imgur.com/a/hjxiptg

[Stoney140]

That is definitely unintended!

Also cheesed The Ring a tiny bit first go - I still had to do the difficult stuff of retrieving the components, but you can place the components sitting on the ring (that join to the final receivers) at just the correct angles that the leftmost blue one connects to the RGB on the right as well as the red in the middle, meaning you can solve the puzzle without using all the components instead of via a more natural-feeling solution that uses all pieces.

Feel like I've been finding a lot more cheeky solutions in this DLC than base game, but I do think it's mostly a result of me trying stuff I'd probably not otherwise just because of how difficult some are!

[Edwin]

Originally posted by sureyoucan:

Is this another cheese method? Works for 8 and 10 level. You can activate laser lock from slightly other side of gate then pickup inside device that was responsible for it and done. https://imgur.com/a/hjxiptg

Haha. That's the one I found as well. I was kind of shocked that I could connect a receiver at a more than 90 degree angle.

Will have to go back at some point to do it for real.

[HebaruSan]

I cheesed it with one of Metaphora (Abyss 8)'s RGB connectors via the hole in its wall.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271818709

Set it up nice and high on the hill, and it can beam over the other lasers without blocking them.

(Unfortunately, no luck in devising a similar solution to Metaphora itself!)

[r-kid]

Originally posted by HebaruSan:

I cheesed it with one of Metaphora (Abyss 8)'s RGB connectors via the hole in its wall.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271818709

Set it up nice and high on the hill, and it can beam over the other lasers without blocking them.

(Unfortunately, no luck in devising a similar solution to Metaphora itself!)

I ended up something similar, didn't open the side doors with this

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274639405

[kablahrz]

Originally posted by Roman971:

I think I found the intended solution for Metathesis, or at least it's a solution that doesn't require timing or any quick action and feels correct.

Here is a hint before I give the full solution:
...

Thanks for the confirmation (by way of minimal hint) ... that my solution was NOT the intended solution, as I had feared. I diidn't use the same method as the OP but it similarly felt wrong. My alternative was (edit: ah, exactly the same "cheese" solution as user sureyoucan, above) using a symmetrical setup of the 3 main RGB Converters collected, "Green" in the middle, to produce just the red and blue lasers needed to get the final barrier open; then use the extra RGB Converter to produce a replacement blue laser ... with the glitch being that this converter can still hit the target Blue receiver from just inside the barrier from the far side of the opening. (screenshot)

Thanks, again.

edit: Oof. Finally came to me. Just moved on in the interim, replaying all 3 DLCs one more time to make sure the techniques were remembered, for now, then looped back to Metathesis as the last hurdle. Nice puzzle.

[Songbird]

There is a another way to do Metathesis without needing to rush anything. There was still a timing element involved for my solution, but it was generous and didn't require you to move quickly. (I actually tried the solution described in the OP, but the gate didn't stay open, even though I grabbed the connector faster than the lasers should have broken from intersecting. Could have been that I bodyblocked a laser accidentally, but I don't think so?)

1) Connect the first three connectors up so the green one is in the center and the door is open.

2) Keeping all existing connections, connect the green connector to both side gates, and each of the side connectors to the gate on the opposite wall. The exact position of the connectors matters slightly, as the extra lasers need to cancel each other out rather than cross one of the necessary connections. This will result in a stable pattern of lasers cancelling each other out. It's possible the wrong lasers will take priority and you'll have basically none of the lasers transmit forward; the easiest way to fix this is to pick up the central connector again with Keep Connections and set it back down. It should look like this when you're done:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3275608166

3) From the opposite side of the door, connect the fourth connector to the blue and red sources, as well as both connectors on the sides. You will get a repeating cycle of the gate opening, breaking its connections after a moment, closing, and reopening.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3275636506

4) Remove the connections to the extra doors on the opposite walls from the two connectors on the side. (Leave them on the central green connector.) You should still have a repeating loop of the gate opening/closing.

5) While the gate is open, pick up the central green connector. You should have the gate remain open with all remaining connections stable, and you can head through the gate to complete the puzzle. (Just don't accidentally break a laser with your body before you're through the gate, or you'll softlock and have to start over.)

[kablahrz]

Originally posted by Songbird:

There is a another way to do Metathesis without needing to rush anything. There was still a timing element involved for my solution, but it was generous and didn't require you to move quickly.

I believe this is the intended solution. I did the same thing, but via a slightly different setup path, making it a little more streamlined...

1. Same symmetrical setup as in your Step 1. .... Central "green" RGB converter; add'l converters connected to the green converter, a single emitter source and to the appropriate receiver to the side of the main barrier. Barrier should open.

2. Skip Step 2.

3. Step 3 same as above. ... 4th RGB converter setup where found, connected to the red and blue emitter sources and to the two side RGB converters.

NOTING ... Setting the 4th converter down is going to break things, for the moment, with you and the 4th converter on the far side of the electric barrier, with the barrier enabled and staying that way.

4. Replace Step 4 with:
* Step 4a: With the lasers cut-off and the electric barrier re-activated, use the ladder to get back to main "Green" RGB converter.
* Step 4b: Having returned to the main "Green" converter, keep its prior connections but add blocking connections to the side-wall receivers (green and blue) and set it back down. This should produce the same cycling of the electric barrier as above.

5. Step 5 the same, pick up the main "Green" converter at a moment when the barrier is down.

edit: p.s. Now that I'm allowing myself to read the spoilers, seems like Roman971's solution is equally valid, even preferable; same basic approach with zero timing required. Key commonality is that the additional blocking connections from the main "green" converter can't be made until last, until after the 4th converter is setup and the laser conflicts have reactivated the barrier ... requiring use of the ladder to get back to the main green converter to setup the blocking connections. Per Roman971’s approach, tweaking Step 4b to set up two additional blocking connections from the main green converter to the receivers on either side of the main gate eliminates the cycling of the barrier and any timing sensitivity. So, yeah, better solution.

[aschepler]

Originally posted by Stoney140:

On a related note, my solution for Stylite also felt a bit wrong (I put the final connector to join to the red receiver on top of the inactive fan platform to get it to reach high enough to connect), but that at least seemed a bit more like a reasonable solution. Would appreciate dev notes if that was a wrong way too lmao. Can sometimes be hard to tell with these tougher puzzles with more esoteric intended solutions.

I'm pretty sure that's the only solution to Stylite: There is always at least one object (including the clone) in the area "A" with the lower fan's target where the clone started, and at least one in area "B" on the ground under the upper target and progress wheel. If a connector is the only object in "A", it's on the button and can't be connected to the laser source. This makes it impossible to ride the lower fan while carrying a connector. If the clone passes up the fan and a connector from "B", the other connector must be on the button in area "A", and now the laser can't connect. The only other place that can connect to the upper target is the lower fan platform.
This was the one I spent most time on and the last one I finished. When I got it, I felt it was cheap rather than clever.