My God this game is obnoxiously pretentious.

[minicreature]

Let me start out by saying the puzzles and gameplay are incredible. I like the overall idea of the story and how I’m 1k and we have our post apocalyptic civilization. I like my explorer bros with their different personalities.

The walls of philosophical text is cringe as ♥♥♥♥ though. After exploring the whole city at the beginning of the game and finding all the hand reading database things in the first 3 zones I just stopped reading it.

First of all, there’s so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ much of it. It’s like reading a giant ass book.

Things started out interesting (especially the choose your own adventure thing in the city museum that was cool).

But now every interaction with the lore is like sitting next to some high school stoner who’s like: “Bro….what if like….humans are like…robots programmed by a God from a galaxy 1 billion years in the future.”

You say “yeah man…crazy.”

Then next period he walks by and says “Everything created by the human race could one day be completely erased. There will be insects with advanced intelligence on earth one day and they will never even know we were here.”

You’re like “uh huh” and go sit somewhere else.

Then on the bus ride home he sits next to you and says every newborn is a uniquely assigned cognitive blueprint. of which there are a finite quantity, from an intergalactic database and that one day if the population exceeds the blueprints some people will have exactly identical thoughts with each other.

At this point you stand up and start beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of him because he’s so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying and you just take the 3 day school suspension because it was so worth it.

These devs sat next to each other inhaling each other’s farts to such an insane degree. This game is made from the farts of what I can only assume must be some of the most obnoxious people you will ever meet.

I don’t regret my purchase. Half of this game is incredible. It it is my sincere hope that the people responsible for the lore/flavor text are constantly told to shut the ♥♥♥♥ up in their day to day lives and never find love or fulfillment.

[ULTRA]

Origineel geplaatst door DRoseDARs:

There are more than a few people in these forums, complaining about the headier parts of the game, that wouldn't do well in a college Philosophy class. This is a gamified version of a 100-level course. It's basically an Intro to Philosophy 101 class and they're upset their preconceptions are being challenged slightly while playing a puzzle game with lasers and robots. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious. Come out of Plato's Cave and touch grass.

One of my undergrad degrees is in a social science (complete with half a dozen philosophy classes) and it doesn't really change the ludonarrative dissonance between moving tripods around and reading block text about anthropology and epistemology, tbh. It's almost a shame that Croteam do have to coddle the feefees of some of the market here because a lot of these themes would be much more relevant as a management game, not a "philosophy-themed" puzzler that could just as easily be asset flipped into a Super Solver game.

[minicreature]

Origineel geplaatst door Cronax:

Origineel geplaatst door minicreature:

I'm 39. If I want to read a philosophy book, then I'll go do that.

What if you were playing the new Mario and Toad gave a 10 minute exposition on if Goombas are actually metaphorical projections of Mario's repeated failures to protect the mushroom kingdom?

Every time you grabbed the flag at the end of the level you got 500 words about the metaphysical nature of wigglers. Their consciousness or lack thereof. The society they had before Mario and Bowser's repeated encounters?

Bro... I just wanna jump onto some platforms and you're just a video game. Chill.

Except that's not the game you picked up. You picked up a game that is designed to be a combination of puzzle solving and thought-provoking philosophy. It makes no sense to be angry at the game for being itself. If you wanted something different, you should have GOTTEN something different. It's like you went to a seafood restaurant and are now complaining that all the dishes have fish or other seafood in them! You got what you paid for, if it's not what you wanted then it's on you as the consumer for failing to inform yourself before you buy the product. There's nothing wrong with only wanting to play videogames that don't make you think too much about anything, but then you have to select those games for yourself instead of wanting other games to be the kind of game you wanted to play.

I made it pretty clear that I like the overarching plot and theme.

It’s possible to know that it will be in the game vs knowing that it will start to feel like a homework assignment.

[SamuraiJones]

Omg, I am amazed at this game for so accurately depicting heated discussions in public forums, while at the same time CREATING them! Truly an impressive feat.

[👾]

Origineel geplaatst door SamuraiJones:

Omg, I am amazed at this game for so accurately depicting heated discussions in public forums, while at the same time CREATING them! Truly an impressive feat.

Well yeah, there is a lot of "meta" stuff going on like that. I enjoy that too. I was also thinking about how Croteam made the choice for "expansion/growth" with TTP2, like the choice for expansion (or not) which is also reflected in the game. And it came at a cost, because some things which were great about the first game have been lost in the process.

[AntwonTheDamaja]

I actually agree with OP, I preferred TP1 over this. Philosophy was a big part of the first game but it didn't beat you over the head with it. The characters, dialogue, and story are a bit excessive though I'm still enjoying the game it just needs some more subtlety in the writing.

Basically, I just prefer to read about philosophy and draw my own conclusions rather than having to take part in this grand philosophical battle biased by the writer's opinions.

Also the maps are too big and I spend more time exploring for stars/sparks than solving puzzles which also wasn't the case in TP1. Still enjoying the game so far, but less so than TP1.

[Tilen]

Origineel geplaatst door SamuraiJones:

Omg, I am amazed at this game for so accurately depicting heated discussions in public forums, while at the same time CREATING them! Truly an impressive feat.

I can't read a forum discussion without comparing it to Road to Gehenna's characters.

[👾]

Origineel geplaatst door AntwonTheDamaja:

I actually agree with OP, I preferred TP1 over this. Philosophy was a big part of the first game but it didn't beat you over the head with it. The characters, dialogue, and story are a bit excessive though I'm still enjoying the game it just needs some more subtlety in the writing.

Basically, I just prefer to read about philosophy and draw my own conclusions rather than having to take part in this grand philosophical battle biased by the writer's opinions.

Also the maps are too big and I spend more time exploring for stars/sparks than solving puzzles which also wasn't the case in TP1. Still enjoying the game so far, but less so than TP1.

That would be the opposite of OP, he seems to be part of this "new audience" they are seemingly aiming at.

[SamuraiJones]

Origineel geplaatst door Tilen:

Origineel geplaatst door SamuraiJones:

Omg, I am amazed at this game for so accurately depicting heated discussions in public forums, while at the same time CREATING them! Truly an impressive feat.

I can't read a forum discussion without comparing it to Road to Gehenna's characters.

I got dibbs on 401's role

[minicreature]

Origineel geplaatst door lankaras:

Origineel geplaatst door AntwonTheDamaja:

I actually agree with OP, I preferred TP1 over this. Philosophy was a big part of the first game but it didn't beat you over the head with it. The characters, dialogue, and story are a bit excessive though I'm still enjoying the game it just needs some more subtlety in the writing.

Basically, I just prefer to read about philosophy and draw my own conclusions rather than having to take part in this grand philosophical battle biased by the writer's opinions.

Also the maps are too big and I spend more time exploring for stars/sparks than solving puzzles which also wasn't the case in TP1. Still enjoying the game so far, but less so than TP1.

That would be the opposite of OP, he seems to be part of this "new audience" they are seemingly aiming at.

I played the first game and its expansion too. Not sure why everyone assumes I didn’t and they can just look at my Steam profile if they cared to.

I didn’t think it was relevant as I’m talking about this game and not the first one. But if it helps you conceptually to think of me as a dumb noob normie that stumbled their way into your gatekept game for intellectuals, then go for it.

[👾]

Origineel geplaatst door minicreature:

I played the first game and its expansion too. Not sure why everyone assumes I didn’t (...)

Because then you should have known what you were getting. If you don't like philosophy, then TTP is not for you. Did you expect them to drop all of that in the sequel?

[minicreature]

Origineel geplaatst door lankaras:

Origineel geplaatst door minicreature:

I played the first game and its expansion too. Not sure why everyone assumes I didn’t (...)

Because then you should have known what you were getting. If you don't like philosophy, then TTP is not for you. Did you expect them to drop all of that in the sequel?

There are multiple people in this thread and others that agree that there is a substantial difference in the sheer volume and manner in which the ideas are being presented between the 2 games.

They are not the same.

In the first game it was a sprinkling of salt to season the experience and in this game they unscrewed the top and dumped out the whole salt shaker.

[👾]

Origineel geplaatst door minicreature:

Origineel geplaatst door lankaras:

Because then you should have known what you were getting. If you don't like philosophy, then TTP is not for you. Did you expect them to drop all of that in the sequel?

There are multiple people in this thread and others that agree that there is a substantial difference in the sheer volume and manner in which the ideas are being presented between the 2 games.

They are not the same.

In the first game it was a sprinkling of salt to season the experience and in this game they unscrewed the top and dumped out the whole salt shaker.

They are certainly not the same. But the way you explained it, it seemed like you liked all the new things which were not in the first game, and not the things which were the same as the first game. I am exactly the opposite of that, I like the first game a lot and don't like a lot of the new things.

[Tiasmoon]

Origineel geplaatst door DRoseDARs:

And you can be intelligent without ever taking a single college course. You're missing out on a lot of accumulated human knowledge if you don't, but not everyone has the opportunity. That doesn't make them lesser, it just means that they don't get that experience.

You are missing out on a lot of accumulated human knowledge regardless of what you do.

Unless a study also teaches things like critical thinking, scientific theory, etc (aka things with a much wider range of application), its usually mainly beneficial for a learning about a specific range of subjects.

In case of philosophy the value of a college or uni education is especially debatable, as simply transfering the knowledge is no guarantee of gaining a high degree understanding of its subject. In addition to that, compared to other studies its much easier to learn philosophy simply living your life, as thinking is something all of us constantly engage with at some level. Not to mention media often broaches philosophical topics, albeit these days rarely in depth as is the case in Talos 1 & 2.

Ofcourse, if the study in question is high quality and does focus on transferance of understanding and teaching how to have a Philosophical mind, its a different matter.

Origineel geplaatst door ULTRA:

One of my undergrad degrees is in a social science (complete with half a dozen philosophy classes)

Social science + "philosophy" isnt exactly held in high regard. Often classes like that are accused of indoctrinating aka brainwash people with ideology, rather then teaching critical thinking. Regardless, they aren't exactly inducing of critical thought in the best of scenarios. The core of philosophy is the ability to think broadly and flexibly about just about anything, hile also taking being able to a few steps back to discuss and consider things in a less-personal and more obervative or semi-objective manner, whereas social philosophy inherently ties everything to human social behaviour which incidentally also ends up making everything personal.

Onto your point about the gameplay: puzzle games are much more likely to interact an intellectual audience. I don't know if that is the reason why they decided with that gameplay, but given some of the conversations and motivations of in-game characters that doesn't sound unlikely.

[Mishyana]

Origineel geplaatst door minicreature:

Origineel geplaatst door Adeon:

Kids who call everything cringe are emotionally dead, I swear. Anything that should evoke even the slightest emotion, better call it CRINGE. How dare anything try to to have a real meaning.

The best I can say, is you'll grow out of it someday.

I'm 39. If I want to read a philosophy book, then I'll go do that.

What if you were playing the new Mario and Toad gave a 10 minute exposition on if Goombas are actually metaphorical projections of Mario's repeated failures to protect the mushroom kingdom?

Every time you grabbed the flag at the end of the level you got 500 words about the metaphysical nature of wigglers. Their consciousness or lack thereof. The society they had before Mario and Bowser's repeated encounters?

Bro... I just wanna jump onto some platforms and you're just a video game. Chill.

Except not every game needs to be Mario and nobody is forcing you to play this one. If it was that quickly to your distaste, there's a refund period for a reason.

I swear, we spent so many years arguing for the notion that games could be art, in defiance of the Roger Eberts of the world; we start getting that, and all sorts of people are like "No no, not like that, that's the *wrong sort* of art". Note that I'm not saying one way or the other here whether TP is 'good' or 'bad' art, just that we can't argue that we don't want every game to be Call of Duty and then turn around and whine when every game.... isn't Call of Duty.

[Mishyana]

Origineel geplaatst door Butcher:

Origineel geplaatst door DRoseDARs:

There are more than a few people in these forums, complaining about the headier parts of the game, that wouldn't do well in a college Philosophy class. This is a gamified version of a 100-level course. It's basically an Intro to Philosophy 101 class and they're upset their preconceptions are being challenged slightly while playing a puzzle game with lasers and robots. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious. Come out of Plato's Cave and touch grass.

You are appealing to authority and try to play on fear of not being smart. Another attempt at manipulation, while OP just wanted pussle game.

If "OP just wanted pussle(sp) game", there are handfuls out there. Again, literally *nobody* forcing him to play this one.