My God this game is obnoxiously pretentious.

[minicreature]

Let me start out by saying the puzzles and gameplay are incredible. I like the overall idea of the story and how I’m 1k and we have our post apocalyptic civilization. I like my explorer bros with their different personalities.

The walls of philosophical text is cringe as ♥♥♥♥ though. After exploring the whole city at the beginning of the game and finding all the hand reading database things in the first 3 zones I just stopped reading it.

First of all, there’s so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ much of it. It’s like reading a giant ass book.

Things started out interesting (especially the choose your own adventure thing in the city museum that was cool).

But now every interaction with the lore is like sitting next to some high school stoner who’s like: “Bro….what if like….humans are like…robots programmed by a God from a galaxy 1 billion years in the future.”

You say “yeah man…crazy.”

Then next period he walks by and says “Everything created by the human race could one day be completely erased. There will be insects with advanced intelligence on earth one day and they will never even know we were here.”

You’re like “uh huh” and go sit somewhere else.

Then on the bus ride home he sits next to you and says every newborn is a uniquely assigned cognitive blueprint. of which there are a finite quantity, from an intergalactic database and that one day if the population exceeds the blueprints some people will have exactly identical thoughts with each other.

At this point you stand up and start beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of him because he’s so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying and you just take the 3 day school suspension because it was so worth it.

These devs sat next to each other inhaling each other’s farts to such an insane degree. This game is made from the farts of what I can only assume must be some of the most obnoxious people you will ever meet.

I don’t regret my purchase. Half of this game is incredible. It it is my sincere hope that the people responsible for the lore/flavor text are constantly told to shut the ♥♥♥♥ up in their day to day lives and never find love or fulfillment.

[puddingtopf]

OP, you're telling me that a game with a philosophical story contains philosophical texts and dialogues? Damn...
Sarcasm aside, I know that this type of writing doesn't appeal to everyone in the same way, but it seems weird to me that someone would complain about it like this. The whole point of the game is to make you think, not only with its puzzle gameplay, but also with its themes.
And the last bit of your post about the writers is unnecessarily rude.

[Liam Pope]

Originally posted by minicreature:

I'm 39. If I want to read a philosophy book, then I'll go do that.

What if you were playing the new Mario and Toad gave a 10 minute exposition on if Goombas are actually metaphorical projections of Mario's repeated failures to protect the mushroom kingdom?

Every time you grabbed the flag at the end of the level you got 500 words about the metaphysical nature of wigglers. Their consciousness or lack thereof. The society they had before Mario and Bowser's repeated encounters?

Bro... I just wanna jump onto some platforms and you're just a video game. Chill.

Well, that would be somewhat unexpected in a Mario game, and maybe unwelcome to most players - most will indeed just be there for jumping onto platforms. But the philosophy elements were very much on the menu with TTP2 and a major part of the game's identity.

Calling it pretentious, and your stoner analogy, suggests the dev's just googled a bunch of philosophy quotes and pasted them in the game without any thought or understanding, just to come across as more intelligent and 'deep' than they are. This is not the case here at all! The writers are very conversant with the source material they reference and are inspired by, and they effectively weave elements of philosophy, mythology, religion and sci-fi into a coherent and provocative experience.

You might be just here for the puzzles, and that's fine - you can skip the text, pass on the exploration and just follow the signs to the puzzles if that's what you prefer. Just because it isn't your cup of tea, doesn't mean it's pretentious and 'cringe', though.

[👾]

Originally posted by Liam Pope:

Some separate entity that inhabits the body, and that entity is the person. Something like a soul.

Not exactly. The point is that for consciousness to exist, there has to be someone who HAS the consciousness, some kind of endpoint, the one who is conscious. Consciousness without someone who has it is a meaningless concept.

As I said before, you can only say this with certainty about yourself. You know that you are conscious, and can check this at any moment. Yes indeed, I see things, I feel things, I think things. For everyone else however, all of the other seeming entities, you can only assume it to be there.

It is not actually correct to call this a person, maybe not even a "someone". It is the endpoint of perception, the experiencer. Without an experiencer, what would it mean for there to be consciousness? Nothing I'd say.

[K I L L I O N A I R E 2 3]

Why are you guys using logic with an entity that lacks basic common sense? He doesn't even seem to be worth of possessing free will. Let the thing talk.

[koosa_]

Originally posted by Liam Pope:

Originally posted by minicreature:

I'm 39. If I want to read a philosophy book, then I'll go do that.

What if you were playing the new Mario and Toad gave a 10 minute exposition on if Goombas are actually metaphorical projections of Mario's repeated failures to protect the mushroom kingdom?

Every time you grabbed the flag at the end of the level you got 500 words about the metaphysical nature of wigglers. Their consciousness or lack thereof. The society they had before Mario and Bowser's repeated encounters?

Bro... I just wanna jump onto some platforms and you're just a video game. Chill.

Well, that would be somewhat unexpected in a Mario game, and maybe unwelcome to most players - most will indeed just be there for jumping onto platforms. But the philosophy elements were very much on the menu with TTP2 and a major part of the game's identity.

Calling it pretentious, and your stoner analogy, suggests the dev's just googled a bunch of philosophy quotes and pasted them in the game without any thought or understanding, just to come across as more intelligent and 'deep' than they are. This is not the case here at all! The writers are very conversant with the source material they reference and are inspired by, and they effectively weave elements of philosophy, mythology, religion and sci-fi into a coherent and provocative experience.

You might be just here for the puzzles, and that's fine - you can skip the text, pass on the exploration and just follow the signs to the puzzles if that's what you prefer. Just because it isn't your cup of tea, doesn't mean it's pretentious and 'cringe', though.

Exactly, the devs did their homework, it's not pretentious at all. For me pretentious are works that try to present and sell us some simple idea in a nice package with a puddle-deep explanation/reasoning. Here you can tell writers worked through ton of material before putting their own spin on it, and it's not like you're forced to be in-line with certain way of thinking, the perspectives here are nicely balanced. A pretentious game would be for ex. Last of Us 2, where you are pretty much forced to be sympathetic towards a character, because the writers want to yell at you "SEE! Those guys you kill in our gore porn game are humans too, oh and btw violence and revenge is bad, now go kill more guys"....

[goosey]

"My question to people who think humanity is a scourge on this planet is if you're still breathing does that make you a hypocrite or just a coward?"

"No, he accurately pointed out that the only non-hypocritical solution if you adhere to that particular belief is offing yourself."

Very simple minded takes. You can have a generally negative look at the structure of current humanity (capitalism, greed, selfishness), and even go so far as to call us a scourge, , while also believing your existence makes little impact in the grand scheme of things, and that on an individually basis feel positively about certain individuals who you share mutual compassion with. Loved ones, dogs, friends etc. Offing yourself would only cause pain to the people who care about you and nothing else. You can think humans are somewhat deranged. mentally ill, etc by destroying the planet and causing unnecessary pain and suffering but still be able to enjoy life away from it.

[GuffBall]

Originally posted by Corrie:

I am actually really fascinated by the question of what consciousness is, where we come from, where we are going and what it means to be alive and human... I spend a lot of time listening to podcasts about this topic but even I found the theme started to drag on a bit.

I think this game does the topic justice in a lot of ways but I agree there is a LOT of it in here. By the 5th island or so I just wanted to get to the puzzles and started skipping most of the dialogue.

The talks between miranda and athena are pretty interesting though.

What it means to be human, abd by extension can a machine be human, was a big part of the first game so to me it seems quite natural that it would carry over into the second game.

[Adeon]

Originally posted by lankaras:

Originally posted by LupisLight:

I am the one who decides what I want

Really? So you could just decide to want to die at any moment?

I could add "if you wanted to", at which point we will get into recursion. What is your decision based on? If it is based on anything, how can you claim it is "your choice"? If it is not based on anything, is it just random?

Then why did you play the sequel of the game did exactly the same thing?

[👾]

Originally posted by Adeon:

Then why did you play the sequel of the game did exactly the same thing?

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[Tshask]

Originally posted by goosey:

"My question to people who think humanity is a scourge on this planet is if you're still breathing does that make you a hypocrite or just a coward?"

"No, he accurately pointed out that the only non-hypocritical solution if you adhere to that particular belief is offing yourself."

Very simple minded takes. You can have a generally negative look at the structure of current humanity (capitalism, greed, selfishness), and even go so far as to call us a scourge, , while also believing your existence makes little impact in the grand scheme of things, and that on an individually basis feel positively about certain individuals who you share mutual compassion with. Loved ones, dogs, friends etc.

There is a difference between saying "I don't like my country's political system / some people are evil"

VS saying something like "Humanity is a scourge. I hope nature fights back and releases the right kind of virus wiping 80% of us so the planet can rest"

I think hatred of humanity motivates many of today's intellectuals and activists, they conceal and rationalize their nihilism so it's never expressed directly.

[therealsandor]

Honestly I believe it's time we go back to the way things were.

All these planets and moons and suns and black holes and sheet.

What have they ever done for us, I ask you?

I say reject humanity, go back to before big bang. Sheet was cool then.

[Traveller]

I feel like the game characters from their "chats" are they smarter, than these threads.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by goosey:

"My question to people who think humanity is a scourge on this planet is if you're still breathing does that make you a hypocrite or just a coward?"

"No, he accurately pointed out that the only non-hypocritical solution if you adhere to that particular belief is offing yourself."

Very simple minded takes. You can have a generally negative look at the structure of current humanity (capitalism, greed, selfishness), and even go so far as to call us a scourge, , while also believing your existence makes little impact in the grand scheme of things, and that on an individually basis feel positively about certain individuals who you share mutual compassion with. Loved ones, dogs, friends etc. Offing yourself would only cause pain to the people who care about you and nothing else. You can think humans are somewhat deranged. mentally ill, etc by destroying the planet and causing unnecessary pain and suffering but still be able to enjoy life away from it.

I just love how at first you seemingly recognise the actual problem (capitalism system placing profit above everything, be it individual, freedoms, nature or anything else really), but then try to share responsibility among every human being. Kinda like capitalists themselves, using "green" exuse to gain monopoly and even more profit, while being even less green than thing used previously. While average shmuck having no control whatsoever gets all the blame.

"Capital eschews no profit, or very small profit, just as nature abhors a vacuum. With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10 percent will ensure its employment anywhere; 20 percent certain will produce eagerness; 50 percent, positive audacity; 100 percent will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 percent, and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged."
-T.J. Dunning

[Cronax]

Originally posted by minicreature:

Originally posted by Adeon:

Kids who call everything cringe are emotionally dead, I swear. Anything that should evoke even the slightest emotion, better call it CRINGE. How dare anything try to to have a real meaning.

The best I can say, is you'll grow out of it someday.

I'm 39. If I want to read a philosophy book, then I'll go do that.

What if you were playing the new Mario and Toad gave a 10 minute exposition on if Goombas are actually metaphorical projections of Mario's repeated failures to protect the mushroom kingdom?

Every time you grabbed the flag at the end of the level you got 500 words about the metaphysical nature of wigglers. Their consciousness or lack thereof. The society they had before Mario and Bowser's repeated encounters?

Bro... I just wanna jump onto some platforms and you're just a video game. Chill.

Except that's not the game you picked up. You picked up a game that is designed to be a combination of puzzle solving and thought-provoking philosophy. It makes no sense to be angry at the game for being itself. If you wanted something different, you should have GOTTEN something different. It's like you went to a seafood restaurant and are now complaining that all the dishes have fish or other seafood in them! You got what you paid for, if it's not what you wanted then it's on you as the consumer for failing to inform yourself before you buy the product. There's nothing wrong with only wanting to play videogames that don't make you think too much about anything, but then you have to select those games for yourself instead of wanting other games to be the kind of game you wanted to play.

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Traveller:

I feel like the game characters from their "chats" are they smarter, than these threads. :morte:

Ingame chat wonders why celebrities are unhappy, while real chat can bring up Harely Pasternaks wounderful threats towards Kanye West which were publically posted on twitter. Apparently, it is totally normal when CIA "fitness trainer" says he will institutionalize Kanye West AGAIN, medicating "the crap out of" him and sending him "back Zombieland forever".

Surely it should have been scandal on par with "MeToo" at least.