100% the game. My opinion on stars and difficulty

[gamatecal]

Finished the game, and I have to say, it was an enjoyable experience... for the most part.

I hate comparing iterations of a game, but this one felt like a severely watered down version of Talos Principle 1 in terms of puzzle design. Puzzles were easier and lack of additional hard puzzles.

In the first game, stars were either hidden within a puzzle, which was an additional layer of complexity for a given puzzle, or collected through other means like hints, obstacles, etc. Gaining these stars, when collected enough, gained access to more difficult, larger puzzles. This fashion continues, and when you have collected enough pieces, gives you access to even larger, and harder puzzles.

Talos Principle 2 doesn't have that. Instead, each location has 2 stars, and they're either "x marks the spot", "catch me if you can", or "connect the dot", albeit the last one actually was a puzzle. When you collect ALL stars, no less, you gained access to a very small, sometimes slightly difficult puzzle. No complexity, just a simple puzzle.

UPDATE: I realized through discussion, that stars actually don't do anything. Also, the difficulty was intentionally toned down, with less complexity in the levels designs, as per this behind the scenes interview. I hope to see the DLC explore bigger, complex level designs. A shame though on the stars. Those were my highlights of TTP1

Behind the scenes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8N4--_g1Dk

[bvrakvs]

I 100%'d everything today as well.

Not really, first game puzzles weren't difficult imo, they were just too messy, especially with that annoying record feature. I found puzzles in 2 more edible, there were definitely head scratchers here and there, but nothing insane like some in Gehenna where you run back and forth, in a maze, plus with multiple recordings plus their timings, it was literal hell. That isn't fun puzzling, just trial error in a maze, without seeing the big picture properly, unlike 95% of the puzzles in 2. I think that's a plus.

If we get a DLC, maybe in it we might get Gehenna-esque insanity puzzles again, who knows.

[gamatecal]

I'm not even talking about Gehenna DLC. Those were MASSIVE puzzles, and couldn't stomach them.

I'm more speaking about the layers of puzzles accessible, and their complexity. All of the gold door puzzles, were done in less than 10 minutes each.

In comparison, some of the star puzzles in TP1, and in extension the puzzles you get access to (...and in extension the puzzles you get access to...) were complex. The majority of my playthrough with the first game was star puzzles. The amount of additional puzzles in TP1 was a lot.

In TP2, it was like... at most 2 hours? And getting stars wasn't hard at all, which I don't really count as puzzles. Just basic "x marks the spot" and "chase me if you can" type of mechanic. So the amount of additional puzzles was just 12, the gold door puzzles

[bvrakvs]

Originally posted by gamatecal:

I'm not even talking about Gehenna DLC. Those were MASSIVE puzzles, and couldn't stomach them.

I'm more speaking about the layers of puzzles accessible, and their complexity. All of the gold door puzzles, were done in less than 10 minutes each.

In comparison, some of the star puzzles in TP1, and in extension the puzzles you get access to (...and in extension the puzzles you get access to...) were complex. The majority of my playthrough with the first game was star puzzles. The amount of additional puzzles in TP1 was a lot.

In TP2, it was like... at most 2 hours? And getting stars wasn't hard at all, which I don't really count as puzzles. Just basic "x marks the spot" and "chase me if you can" type of mechanic. So the amount of additional puzzles was just 12, the gold door puzzles

I see, I can agree to that, the gold star challenges were lame as heck, and the golden gate puzzles were OK, but none of them were super tough, I'd have liked a bit more stuff to solve as well, but I don't want Gehenna-like puzzles again, I didn't even enjoy solving those, they were just too messy.

[kassandra]

Would like to see gehenna without the bad mechanics from TTP1 located in TTP2 environments.

[bvrakvs]

tbh I'd rather devs explore other areas other than Gehenna stuff again, it's in the past lore-wise. I want space stuff, maybe we can solve issues on a base on a planet orbiting a black hole or somethin

[kassandra]

Originally posted by bvræqvete:

tbh I'd rather devs explore other areas other than Gehenna stuff again, it's in the past lore-wise. I want space stuff, maybe we can solve issues on a base on a planet orbiting a black hole or somethin

Meant difficulty and focus on interaction with other individuals. What we got is TTP1 average base game difficulty with kind of Gehenna interaction. Story can go wherever Croteam wants. Hopefully more a question of "when" and not "if".

[gamatecal]

For DLC, I can see
"The Fall of..." forgot the city name.
"Athena's/ELOHIM's Dreams"
"SPAAAAAACE"

Though, I assume Space would just be Talos Principle 3.

[bvrakvs]

I'd like both DLC and TP3 be in space, also 4-5-6 all others in space as well, like meet alien race who are into puzzles as well, possibilities are limitless

[rambley enjoyer 73]

I'm kind of disappointed with the lack of complex stars for the most part (though I do really appreciate that the goals for the stars are significantly clearer) though I think the normal puzzle difficulty is fine. It's definitely easier than Talos 1 but there were a good few puzzles in that which were outright frustrating or felt bad to solve, and there hasn't been anything that made me feel like that in Talos 2.

[kassandra]

Originally posted by Fritzy:

It's definitely easier than Talos 1 but there were a good few puzzles in that which were outright frustrating or felt bad to solve, and there hasn't been anything that made me feel like that in Talos 2.

Fully agree.

[Tiasmoon]

Its also much easier because we are already used to thinking in Talos puzzle mechanics.

Like some of the puzzles would have take a lot longer if I didnt remember 'oh yeah you can block beams by standing in front of them/placing object in between', being able to remove fans from their sockets, keeping connections (in Talos 1 there was no tooltip that told you that was possible), stuff like that.

Plus some of the changes that made puzzles a lot easier are QOL improvements like showing functionality (IE: pick item showing when you hover over an item on the other side of a drill hole, the mentioned keep beam connections), and stuff like open world connectors being a lot more visible (well except THAT ONE), map directions for extra puzzle locations, etc.

[Shrinkshooter]

I've replayed maybe 60% of TTP1 after this game, and while I would certainly say that overall it is more difficult, we need to be careful because some of those puzzles feel more difficult than they actually are due to their size and the time it takes to solve them. Half of the "difficult" puzzles are either 1) big and messy, and take time to solve but aren't hard to figure out, or 2) require "thinking outside the box" = "what sort of rules or conventions are they requiring you to break to solve this" (e.g. importing a necessary jammer from outside the puzzle).

[TheLimeyDragon]

I think there's also too many new tools and they're not quite fully utilised to their best.

You end up with a few easy tutorial levels for each tool.

[gamatecal]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

I've replayed maybe 60% of TTP1 after this game, and while I would certainly say that overall it is more difficult, we need to be careful because some of those puzzles feel more difficult than they actually are due to their size and the time it takes to solve them. Half of the "difficult" puzzles are either 1) big and messy, and take time to solve but aren't hard to figure out, or 2) require "thinking outside the box" = "what sort of rules or conventions are they requiring you to break to solve this" (e.g. importing a necessary jammer from outside the puzzle).

Agree. A lot of the puzzles in TTP1 are, and can be considered, "big and messy". They're actually 2-3 puzzles in one, and could easily be separated to make for additional puzzles. But that's the point, right? In TTP2, these are those singular parts of the puzzle. Another way to look at it, is they're less in scale, bit sized puzzles.

The complexity of some of the puzzles in TTP1 is bigger in scale. Some requiring additional steps or outside materials to get the star. There isn't any of that in TTP2. Which is my point. There isn't that much complexity as there was in TTP1.

The most complex puzzle in TTP2, that I can recall, were the movable platforms. These required additional steps and setup to complete. But still smaller in scale compared to most of TTP1's puzzle design

[gamatecal]

Originally posted by TheLimeyDragon:

I think there's also too many new tools and they're not quite fully utilised to their best.

You end up with a few easy tutorial levels for each tool.

Also this. There isn't much iteration on use of tools like TTP1 explored, or not much combining of these tools.

In TTP1, we were presented with stars that iterated heavily on its areas mechanic. And when you got enough stars, an even more complex puzzle was unlocked, that iterated and combined these mechanics.