Can we talk about the sparks and puzzle skipping?

[Rushin]

I'm genuinely curious why these are even in the game at all.

There are heated debates about the puzzle difficulty in this game - some find it too easy, some like it the way it is. Clearly, people have different preferences and overall experience with the genre. Someone who played a lot of puzzle games before may breeze through it while another person struggles. Some adamantly refuse to look up solutions no matter how long it takes, others immediately hate being stuck. But all in all I think it's perfectly fine if you find certain puzzles too challenging and need assistance.

But why have that assistance in a form of literal "press button to skip puzzle"?

The whole fun about the genre is figuring out how to solve each puzzle. It's that "aha!" moment when it just clicks and you figure it out, being rewarded for solving it. But sometimes it's too hard; you're just not seeing the solution. This is where you might give up and look at a guide - maybe a mere text hint, maybe a full-on youtube playthrough - but you end up thinking "oooh THAT'S what I was meant to do!". Chances are you only need a nudge in the right direction. It's still fun to find out the solution - even if you didn't completely figure it out on your own you still basically "experienced" the whole puzzle so to speak.

...or you just pressed a button and will never even try to solve it ever again.

Why? Why is this in the game? Who uses this? When I found out what sparks do I immediately thought "yep, I'm clearly not using that ever once". I feel like many people would agree on this too. If you used sparks, why did you do it? Why not check out the solution and find out what the puzzle was about? Doesn't using a spark simply rob you off of a part of the fun to be had by playing this game?

I understand that games can (and often should) be more accessible. Some puzzle games also have the "skip level" functionality in one way or another, but almost always in a way of being able to come back to this level a bit later. But not flat out mark it as "solved". Plus there's the obvious argument of the game only requiring you to solve 8 out of 10 puzzles in each area (with Lost ones being consistently no more difficult than regular ones... for some reason), so you can effectively only solve 6/10 and consider the game complete. It's strange. Again, why not look up the solutions when you get stuck? Isn't that a lot more fun?

UPD: I was apparently misinformed that using a spark prevents the level from being reset and tried over. I'm being told you can do that and even get the spark back. So effectively it mirrors a typical "skip level" button (which I think are usually fine). Still, a bit strange why you'd choose to do that when you already don't have to solve all puzzles (and the point about looking up solutions instead stays), but alright.

[HANDIJORDAN-YT]

or how about this just don't use the puzzle skips if you do not want to use them I am pretty far into the game and have not had to use a single one anon saying bad design no its not it gives everyone a choice on how to play its not like you have unlimited skips

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by mreed2:

Sparks are literally just sitting out in the environement. You just need to touch them to gain one.

Spoiler for the spark in the first world:

Each world has 2 of them.

[xairin]

i also don't use skips as that is not my style of play. however, i can understand why a different person with a different playstyle might use them, like someone that is just in the game for the story. i've done things like that before with games where the story interests me but the gameplay style does not. i don't see why croteam wouldn't try and cater to both crowds. people that really like puzzles will just ignore the using the skips.

[Gweihir]

One reason is surely puzzle-blocking bugs. The sparks provide a bit of redundancy here. Another is people wanting to advance in the story without solving everything. You can always go back and still solve the puzzles, as you do not get told the solution. A very elegant approach IMO and much better than what they did in T1.

It really is a non-issue. Avoid using the sparks if you do not like them. Everybody adult should have that level of discipline and it really is not any harder than not looking up the solutions online.

[Lonestar1804]

Originally posted by аnŌn:

This is the second time Croteam has decided to put gameplay-skippers into their games, first being Serious Sam 4 three years ago, it's incredibly bad design and it shows that they have 0 confidence in both their game and the players.

It's actually the opposite of bad game design. Skipping a puzzle is way better than just looking up the solution on YouTube (then the puzzle is ruined). If you just skip it you have the opportunity to come back later and try it again after solving the other puzzles, that may give you new ideas.

I would be very happy to see this in more games, although I probably wouldn't use it that often.

Doesn't have anything to do with confidence in their game. You could say the same about different difficulty settings of games in general. You can't just make the perfect game for everyone, because every player is different.

[Corrie]

I think the sparks are a really good idea. As someone who gets stuck on these types of puzzle games fairly often I'd rather use a spark and get to proceed without knowing the solution than have to go online and read a guide. This way I can come back later to give it another try without having to prevent myself from being able to move forwards.

Also they're optional. if you don't like them then don't use them. They let you skip less than 10% of the puzzles (napkin math) so even if you used them all it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[rivers]

I think it's fine, really. You don't get very many skips in the first place (just one per world, and you have to *find* it first, which at least encourages you to pay attention to the world and not just stare at your compass), and you can always go back to solve it properly, if you *do* get a brainwave on something you were stuck. In practice it means that every world requires that you solve, on average, 7/11 of the puzzles available (8 normal, 2 lost, 1 "find the spark") in order to progress the story. If you want to complete them all, then you certainly can, but you do still have to do the majority of the game - it's not like you can just hit skip 100 times, see the cutscenes, and walk away.

Also, I think they work thematically; Prometheus is distinctly presented as a trickster. He's bending the rules in your favor, but if you don't need his help then more power to ya.

[Bones]

I like having the option to skip and I think they help people out who don't want to spend too much time on puzzles. Personally, the two times I really felt like I needed it were for solving a couple monuments and they can't be used for that. Cut to me carrying 15 of those things being unable to use them when I truly needed them.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by rivers:

I think it's fine, really. You don't get very many skips in the first place (just one per world, and you have to *find* it first, which at least encourages you to pay attention to the world and not just stare at your compass)

There's 2 sparks per area, 24 total. A portion of them are pretty hard (or random) to find. I've started finishing the golden puzzles and I still only found 16~sparks.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by аnŌn:

This is the second time Croteam has decided to put gameplay-skippers into their games, first being Serious Sam 4 three years ago, it's incredibly bad design and it shows that they have 0 confidence in both their game and the players.

omg who cares
Not everyone can solve ALL puzzles. That's just a basic fact. Get over your self.

[Tshask]

I would much prefer if the sparks actually SOLVED the puzzle in front of your eyes, so you can actually see what you were meant to do. And once you use a spark it's gone forever.

This could be an alternative to looking up Youtube guides, it would keep you inside the game for more immersion.

[tcassat]

Originally posted by Tshask:

I would much prefer if the sparks actually SOLVED the puzzle in front of your eyes, so you can actually see what you were meant to do. And once you use a spark it's gone forever.

This could be an alternative to looking up Youtube guides, it would keep you inside the game for more immersion.

Wow, I thought it solved the puzzle instead of just skipping it.
If I'm not mistaken, in Talos 1 the robots came personally to solve the puzzle, right?

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Tshask:

I would much prefer if the sparks actually SOLVED the puzzle in front of your eyes, so you can actually see what you were meant to do. And once you use a spark it's gone forever.

Wrong, just solve the puzzle normally and you get the spark back.

[mreed2]

No, in Talos 1 you get a very, very, very vague clue (not more than two sentences) for selected puzzles. It neither solves the puzzle for you nor allows you to skip the puzzle.

[Diamond Knight]

Does anyone know where the sparks in east 3 and north 1 are? I walked all round the place and didn't find any