Old Hamumu/Dr.Lunatic Fan, and Fellow Xtreme-Gamer Here

[Nitrode256]

Heya, Hamumu! Don't know if you remember me, but I was "Abscissa" on the old Xtreme Games forum, back in the day. Always loved Dr. Lunatic in partiular (as well as the rest). Glad to see you're still doing indie games and getting started on Steam. Definitely looking forward to this release.

Have you considered dusting off the old Supreme With Cheese codebase and updating it enough for Steam and modern PCs? (ex, side-piller letterbox for widescreen monitors, better supporting D-Pads and DualShock/XBox controllers, achievements, etc?) Ie, Not talking a big graphics/gameplay overhaul, just kinda modern basics at the least. I know the game's already technically available in it's latest form, but honestly, I really think that polishing up a few of the modern-machine rough edges and getting it onto Steam would be well worth a few $ purchace for many people. No only that, but I'm still a big indie game fan, and I really, honestly think Dr. Lunatic has a lot to offer to gamers even in the current crowded indie/steam market, just needs a few of the legacy rough edges sanded off just a bit. Steam-provided visibility can take care of the rest.

In any case, if you'd rather go private, I'm nick1 at semitwist dot com (or Abscissa over at github). And advance congrats on your first Steam releaase! :)

[TylerF]

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

Xtreme Games

I recognize that name from eGames shareware discs, what games did they make?

[arsenicBumpnip]

Seconding that I'd absolutely love to see Dr L, Kid Mystic, or etc released here on steam, would buy them all up in a heartbeat.

[Nitrode256]

Originally posted by TylerF:

I recognize that name from eGames shareware discs, what games did they make?

Xtreme Games was more of a publisher than a developer (although the guy behind Xtreme, Andre' LaMothe, had made the DOS FPS "Rex Blade" and wrote a bunch of game programming books around the mid/late 1990's and early 2000's). Way back before the days of Steam and indie games actually being called "indie" (they were "budget titles" back then), Xtreme would partner with a bunch of what today we would call indie developers and act on their behalf to get them onto those budget-bin CDs put out by distributors like eGames.

Being a publisher, they were involved with a lot of titles from a lot of different developers. Most of them escape my memory these days, but Hamumu Games had some titles through Xtreme: Kid Mystic comes to mind, and there was also a very good Centipede clone, I forget it's name. I remember another of Xtreme's developers had DX-Ball, a breakout clone, which IIRC was also released under another name. Hmm, I also remember a "Ganja Farmer" and "Atlantis Rising", although I don't recall whether those made it onto any of the CDs. There was a group of brothers that made a very good Dig Dug clone and at least one other game (again, all the names escape my memory). I myself had a breakout clone with Xtreme too, under the developer name Abscissa Software. It came in two different variations: Zarkanoid and Hyperball (but note, there are a BUNCH of other breakout clones also named Hyperball - mine's probably the most obscure one, you're not likely to find any mention of either version of mine anywhere on the internet.) I also had a Centipede clone with them, Mechapede, but IIRC, I don't think that one made it onto any CDs, it was just internet distribution (the budget bin game CDs were dying off by then, partly from some Hasbro lawsuits, but also from increasing internet distribution). But I have to say though, Hamumu was a WAAAY better game developer than I was, and definitely one of Xtreme's real star developers. I'm really anxious to start seeing stuff from him available on Steam.

You don't really hear about Xtreme anymore because they switched gears to hobbyist hardware in the mid-2000's, under the names XGameStation and Nurve Networks.

[TylerF]

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

...

I'd love to see some videos on the history of pre-Steam PC indie game creation, I don't think there are many. And man I actually remember Atlantis Rising from an eGames disc but couldn't find any footage on YT. (music though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpPm1xhZ9g) DX-Ball is a classic and I actually have it installed now.

edit: found Atlantis Rising on mobygames - https://www.mobygames.com/game/atlantis-rising

I think there were also Atari lawsuits (I guess Atari bought Hasbro Interactive at one point) over Atari clones like "3D Maze Man", "Debris", and more. I think eGames was hit with this for distributing these games.

I might know the Dig Dug clone you're talking about; the one I played had little green aliens and a guy in a white suit with a red-ish lazer and blue viser, kind of. I can't remember the name though.

My favorite shareware games were Crazy Drake and Speedy Eggbert, which is actually freeware now - http://blupi.org/ - and there were other great ones like Nebula Fighter, Safari Kongo, Demonstar, Wild Wheels and others whose names I can't remember...

https://jamesemirzianwaldementersoftwareonwikia.fandom.com/wiki/EvilX_Systems

rex blade - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV9XxKmhCuA

[kilicool64]

Originally posted by TylerF:

(I guess Atari bought Hasbro Interactive at one point)

From what I understand, Atari's name and certain other assets of them were bought by Hasbro Interactive, who was then purchased by a French wannabe AAA publisher named Infogrames, who then started using the Atari name for certain purposes before ditching the Infogrames name altogether.

The history of Atari's assets and their owners is convoluted as hell. This only covers a small part of it.

[vermis]

Please think about doing this. I've wanted it for years. I love Bouapha

[Nitrode256]

@kilicool64 is correct (to my knowledge) about the the history of Atari properties. The lawsuits were from the period when it was owned by Hasbro (basically a toy company who tried to get into videogames sometime around 2000 or so under the name "Hasbro Interactive"). IIRC, prior to that Atari was pretty much defunct. This was also the same time period Hasbro/Atari put out those dreadful 3D-action-adventure official-remakes of Pong and Frogger. For the former, they actually turned the pong paddle into an anthropomorphic 3D rectangle out on some generic 3D adventure. No big wonder why that didn't make a huge splash... (hmm...actually kinda feel like retrying them now, just for the cheesy-nostalgia factor).

So, making half-baked Atari-themed shovelware didn't net Hasbro a big payoff. Suing indies who had no money didn't help them gain that big payoff either (big surprise). Shortly thereafter their Atari ownership was sold to Infogrames who still uses to name to this day. (Unless it was Hasbro as a whole that was purchased by Infogrames as @kilicool64 suggests? If so, that's news to me, but I never knew any details of that deal.)

The earlier history of Atari, before the Hasbro-era is really quite interesting, and also involves some changes of ownership, and intertwines with several other big names like Nintendo and Activision. It's all documented in the book "Game Over Press Start To Continue" by David Sheff [1]. A very interesting read. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the 1980's and early 90's history of console videogames. It's pretty much the "Fire in the Valley"/"Pirates of Silicon Valley", but for videogames instead of PCs.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Game-Over-Press-Start-Continue/dp/0966961706/ref=sr_1_15?crid=10SO6FE9N5OJQ&keywords=game+over&qid=1555135358&s=books&sprefix=game+over%2Caps%2C192&sr=1-15

Originally posted by TylerF:

I might know the Dig Dug clone you're talking about; the one I played had little green aliens and a guy in a white suit with a red-ish lazer and blue viser, kind of. I can't remember the name though.

I don't remember those details, but I remember it had smoothly rotating sprites and used a 320-pixel width resolution (either Mode 13h or maybe Mode X. In any case, standard VGA, below 640x480). Ugh, beyond that, all I remember is that I was very humbled by it (It was the well-deserved #1 winning entry in a small Xtreme-sponsored gamedev competition. My entry was back in a distant third.) The name "Mimir" or "Meemir" or something like that comes to mind as the creators of this DigDug clone, but that might have been nothing more than the screenname the brothers used on the Xtreme Games message board.

I kinda miss that scene. You're right, a docu-video on the pre-Steam indie scene would be VERY cool to see. There was another big indie dev forum I frequented after Xtreme, too, in the early 2000's. I know it's not around anymore, but I don't remember what it was called. Something simple and on-the-nose like gamedev.net, IIRC. There was also a site that announced and reviewed all the big indie games that were coming out...now that one I *really* miss and have zero memory of the name of...I came across a bunch of really great games there...many of which are not on steam, and probably not really even really available at all anymore. Sad :(

Originally posted by TylerF:

My favorite shareware games were Crazy Drake and Speedy Eggbert, which is actually freeware now - http://blupi.org/ - and there were other great ones like Nebula Fighter, Safari Kongo, Demonstar, Wild Wheels and others whose names I can't remember...

Oooh! I've played one or two of the Blupi games! They were really fun! A shame they didn't get more exposure than they did. Would love to see them re-released on PS4 or something. The other's don't sound familiar to me. But I'll toss this name over to your side: "Orbz" *that* was a great, underrated game. No connection to Xtreme though. It had more of a connection to the "Tribes" series IIRC, or at least the engine behind it.

For "Wild Wheels", I wonder if you might be thinking of "Wacky Wheels", a DOS clone of the original SNES Mario Kart (Mode 7 FTW!!! :)). I loved that one. In fact, funny coincidence, I just picked it up on a really good sale over at GoG only about an hour ago: https://www.gog.com/game/wacky_wheels

Originally posted by TylerF:

https://jamesemirzianwaldementersoftwareonwikia.fandom.com/wiki/EvilX_Systems

Yes! EvilX Systems! I remember Ganja Farmer was very good, a clone of...umm...I forget what, but it's very identifiable gameplay. It was very well-received when I passed the shareware around my high school :).

His "Jesus Christ Super Commando" was quite highly anticipated, but I remember it being endlessly delayed, and this is the first I've ever heard it it actually being released. I wonder if that site's info about it just isn't entirely correct? The rest of the EvilX games listed there I've never heard of...but I now want them...!!

Originally posted by TylerF:

rex blade - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV9XxKmhCuA

Yup! That's the one. Andre' LaMothe was the key dude behind that one. Wrote some really great gamedev books around that time that really helped me go from a novice programmer to pro. Kinda pleasantly surprised the internet's aware of the game, being that it's quite nearly from the pre-Internet era. Looks very Rise of the Triad, doesn't it?

In closing: Pants Of Power FTW!!!!!!!! :)

[Hamumu]

Well, good news to anybody who wants to play those games... they're all free! Visit http://hamumu.com and grab whichever ones you want!

[TylerF]

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

Originally posted by TylerF:

I might know the Dig Dug clone you're talking about; the one I played had little green aliens and a guy in a white suit with a red-ish lazer and blue viser, kind of. I can't remember the name though.

I don't remember those details, but I remember it had smoothly rotating sprites and used a 320-pixel width resolution (either Mode 13h or maybe Mode X. In any case, standard VGA, below 640x480). Ugh, beyond that, all I remember is that I was very humbled by it (It was the well-deserved #1 winning entry in a small Xtreme-sponsored gamedev competition. My entry was back in a distant third.) The name "Mimir" or "Meemir" or something like that comes to mind as the creators of this DigDug clone, but that might have been nothing more than the screenname the brothers used on the Xtreme Games message board.

The game I was thinking of was "Tunnel Blaster" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgznzUXu_Dk - which was published by xTreme Games and later eGames according to this guy.

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

I kinda miss that scene. You're right, a docu-video on the pre-Steam indie scene would be VERY cool to see.

Sounds like something worth crowdfunding, or something for Noclip (or similar) to cover. ;)

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

Originally posted by TylerF:

My favorite shareware games were Crazy Drake and Speedy Eggbert, which is actually freeware now - http://blupi.org/ - and there were other great ones like Nebula Fighter, Safari Kongo, Demonstar, Wild Wheels and others whose names I can't remember...

Oooh! I've played one or two of the Blupi games! They were really fun! A shame they didn't get more exposure than they did. Would love to see them re-released on PS4 or something. The other's don't sound familiar to me. But I'll toss this name over to your side: "Orbz" *that* was a great, underrated game. No connection to Xtreme though. It had more of a connection to the "Tribes" series IIRC, or at least the engine behind it.

Yeah Speedy Eggbert was like Mario on PC for me (I wasn't aware of old-school Apogee platformers at the time) and I loved it.

Thanks, I'll check out Orbz.

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

For "Wild Wheels", I wonder if you might be thinking of "Wacky Wheels", a DOS clone of the original SNES Mario Kart (Mode 7 FTW!!! :)). I loved that one. In fact, funny coincidence, I just picked it up on a really good sale over at GoG only about an hour ago: https://www.gog.com/game/wacky_wheels

I know of Wacky Wheels (thanks to GOG who also made me aware of some old games like Crusader No Remorse and No Regret, and inspired me to do more research into some of them), but this is different. It's from the Blupi guys, Epsitec, and should be on the blupi.org site. It is Wild Wheels aka Buzzing Cars (you can search for either) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stf-bGfaCZA I had a lot of fun with this, great color and fun physics.

btw here's some gameplay of other eGames indie-ish titles some of which I mentioned before:
Crazy Drake
Safari Kongo
Nebula Fighter
Speedy Eggbert (aka Blupi)
Asteroid Miner aka Star Miner (from the guys who'd go on to make Democracy series and others)

Not eGames, this was on some "300 games" or something disc my bro got from a friend, I think. (It had some Snake clone that had a cover of Jefferson Starship's "Jane" as the theme :P)
Noop's Odyssey

Besides these I grew up on Humongous Entertainment, LEGO Island and other lego games, numerous other edutainment titles, a few Maxis sim titles, etc.

[Nitrode256]

Originally posted by TylerF:

The game I was thinking of was "Tunnel Blaster" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgznzUXu_Dk - which was published by xTreme Games and later eGames according to this guy.

Ahh, thanks for the link! I totally remember that one now that I see it (in fact, several of the background textures in that game I definitely recognize as ones Andre' provided me to re-use for blocks and backgrounds in the Breakout clone(s) I did for Xtreme.)

Unfortunately, that's not the one I had in mind though. The one I was thinking of had smoothly-rotating sprites and was overall waaay better than that one (and was made all the more impressive by the fact that it was originally made for a coding competition with a time limit of...I forget whether it was 1 month or 3 months...)

Originally posted by TylerF:

Originally posted by Nitrode256:

I kinda miss that scene. You're right, a docu-video on the pre-Steam indie scene would be VERY cool to see.

Sounds like something worth crowdfunding, or something for Noclip (or similar) to cover. ;)

Yea, I would totally back that if it was from someone with a proven track record. Heck, I'm totally geeking out at the thought of it.

Originally posted by TylerF:

I know of Wacky Wheels (thanks to GOG who also made me aware of some old games like Crusader No Remorse and No Regret, and inspired me to do more research into some of them), but this is different. It's from the Blupi guys, Epsitec, and should be on the blupi.org site. It is Wild Wheels aka Buzzing Cars (you can search for either) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stf-bGfaCZA I had a lot of fun with this, great color and fun physics.

Ahh, no, this is the first time I've seen it, but man...those 90's 3D indie graphics REALLY take me back...

Originally posted by TylerF:

Crazy Drake
Safari Kongo
Nebula Fighter

Thanks for all the links! These ones definitely look familiar...especially the first two. Can't say I personally spend much time with any of them, but I'm certain I tried at least Crazy Drake and Safari Kongo back in the day.

Originally posted by TylerF:

Speedy Eggbert (aka Blupi)

Wow! That's a *completely* different Blupi game from the one I remember. I've never even seen that one, but now I'm curious. The one Iplayed must've been a sequel or spinoff - it definitely had the exact same main character, but it was 3D (a grid/block-based 3D) and I remember it being a bit of a puzzle game.

Ahh! Found it! This is the one I remember enjoying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWQ_mr3CU-M

Originally posted by TylerF:

Asteroid Miner aka Star Miner (from the guys who'd go on to make Democracy series and others)

Not eGames, this was on some "300 games" or something disc my bro got from a friend, I think. (It had some Snake clone that had a cover of Jefferson Starship's "Jane" as the theme :P)
Noop's Odyssey

Now those one's I don't think I've come across before. But I gotta say, I'm loving the trippy lo-fi trippyness of Noop's Odyssey. That looks...about as low budget as low-budget can be, but also...really cool at the same time...

Oh man, that reminds me, if you like these sorts of cheesy indie titles, you should check out Super Dumpster Bear. I have it on PS4, but I'm sure it's probably on Steam, too. It (deliberately) comes across as absurdly cheesy, low-budget, and insane, but the vaguyely-mario-1-ish gameplay is surprisingly VERY solid.

[SpaceManiac]

To Nitrode and others, who are interested in seeing the Dr. Lunatic and related games updated, their source code has been released, and brought up to baseline working standard:

http://hamumu.com/blog.php?entry=1558391916

Active discussion is in the linked Discord channel, if you want to follow along or contribute code, art, bug reports, or ideas.

[SpaceManiac]

For those who still desperately wish to show off their Dr. Lunatic progress on their Steam profiles... your prayers have been answered! Celebrating Supreme With Cheese's 20th anniversary, Dr. Lunatic Supreme With Steam is now available, adding Steam Achievements, Steam Leaderboards, Steam Workshop, and full Steam Deck and controller support on top of the free HamSandwich version of the game. Check it out!