This combat system is a joke

[Knarral]

How can anybody possibly think this combat system is any good? Enemies (especially rush enemies) constantly dash behind me any time I try to hit them, they constantly block all of my attacks, and I have to be a precog in order to counter half of the moves since they don't telegraph. What gives?

[Lar Dass]

I personally didnt mind, sure 0 was easier but this felt smoother in some way
Boss fights were a struggle especially akimbo arase

[HoloLiveSonic™]

Originally posted by Lar Dass:

I personally didnt mind, sure 0 was easier but this felt smoother in some way
Boss fights were a struggle especially akimbo arase

i heard ppl saying akimbo arase is the hardest bosses, but to me, i just destroyed him in just a mere minutes lmao

[Knarral]

I don't understand how I'm supposed to get anything done with Rush. Every time I start landing hits, the enemy is pushed back out of my combo and the rest of the combo is me punching air.

[Frate]

The combat is actually pretty good and even better then 0 thanks to the Legend Style.

Think when battling, don't just spam the basic combo. If you pay attention, most of the enemies actually repeat the same combo all the time.

Brawler Style is the best fighting Style in the first half of the game. If your legend style is high enough upgraded, it's better to use Legend instead.


I don't know how far you are in the game, but some upgrades to your fighting styles makes fights way easier:

Using grap in brawler style at the start of the fight, while being calm, it gives you full heat.

Use guard the build heat. Use regard, if they break your guard (if you know they can break your guard spam LB).
Guarding is way better then dashing, due the ability to build heat. It's even necessary to beat the game on higher difficulties.

Grap your opponents. The Game even tells you at the start of the game to use grap, when an enemy is guarding. Slam them to the ground (press B after grabbing them) and kick them afterwards. Kicking them while they are on the ground, gives you heat. If you are bad at fighting, heat is really important, so you can at least deal damage by using heat actions.

Instead of kicking them, while they are laying on the ground, you can grap them again by using the Beast Style. This deals more damage then kicking. But you need to stand infront of their feet. You can't grab them, if you are standing at the side of their head. Instead, Kiryu will just pick them up, but in this case they are stunned, too short in Legend difficulty to make use of it. But it is probably longer on lower difficulties.

If you are still struggling, upgrade your legend style. Especially I'd recommend you to do the Komakis substories. The Game becomes way easier, after getting the Tiger Drop (unlockable in Chapter 6, its the 2nd last Substory of Komaki). If you upgrade your Legend Style, it's by far the strongest Fighting style of Kiryu.


To sum it up, what I used in Legend difficulty:
Use Brawler Style. Use standard combo when you see an opening. Guard when they are attacking. Reguard when necessary. Grab them, when they are guarding. Slam them to the ground (Press B). Switch to beast style. Throw them around 1-2 times. (depends on the enemy, some will cancel your throw, if you try to throw them for a 2nd time.) Kick them, while they are on the ground. Repeat.
Switched to using Legend Style after unlocking Tiger Drop.

With those tips you should be able to easily beat the game. On Legend difficulty Heat Actions make almost no damage, so I used this scheme to beat almost every enemy in the game. It's probably easier to use Heat actions ( for example there is a Heat Action to break guards, only usable with climax heat), when you are playing on a lower difficulty.

[Punished Rusty Shackleford]

The fight against Shimano is def a filter for most people me included. that's where i noticed the fighting mechanics were wonky especially if the boss can regenerate. the Majima everywhere is fun mechanic though.

[Gothracc]

Get gud

[Knarral]

Originally posted by Frate:

The combat is actually pretty good and even better then 0 thanks to the Legend Style.

Think when battling, don't just spam the basic combo. If you pay attention, most of the enemies actually repeat the same combo all the time.

Brawler Style is the best fighting Style in the first half of the game. If your legend style is high enough upgraded, it's better to use Legend instead.


I don't know how far you are in the game, but some upgrades to your fighting styles makes fights way easier:

Using grap in brawler style at the start of the fight, while being calm, it gives you full heat.

Use guard the build heat. Use regard, if they break your guard (if you know they can break your guard spam LB).
Guarding is way better then dashing, due the ability to build heat. It's even necessary to beat the game on higher difficulties.

Grap your opponents. The Game even tells you at the start of the game to use grap, when an enemy is guarding. Slam them to the ground (press B after grabbing them) and kick them afterwards. Kicking them while they are on the ground, gives you heat. If you are bad at fighting, heat is really important, so you can at least deal damage by using heat actions.

Instead of kicking them, while they are laying on the ground, you can grap them again by using the Beast Style. This deals more damage then kicking. But you need to stand infront of their feet. You can't grab them, if you are standing at the side of their head. Instead, Kiryu will just pick them up, but in this case they are stunned, too short in Legend difficulty to make use of it. But it is probably longer on lower difficulties.

If you are still struggling, upgrade your legend style. Especially I'd recommend you to do the Komakis substories. The Game becomes way easier, after getting the Tiger Drop (unlockable in Chapter 6, its the 2nd last Substory of Komaki). If you upgrade your Legend Style, it's by far the strongest Fighting style of Kiryu.


To sum it up, what I used in Legend difficulty:
Use Brawler Style. Use standard combo when you see an opening. Guard when they are attacking. Reguard when necessary. Grab them, when they are guarding. Slam them to the ground (Press B). Switch to beast style. Throw them around 1-2 times. (depends on the enemy, some will cancel your throw, if you try to throw them for a 2nd time.) Kick them, while they are on the ground. Repeat.
Switched to using Legend Style after unlocking Tiger Drop.

With those tips you should be able to easily beat the game. On Legend difficulty Heat Actions make almost no damage, so I used this scheme to beat almost every enemy in the game. It's probably easier to use Heat actions ( for example there is a Heat Action to break guards, only usable with climax heat), when you are playing on a lower difficulty.

1. The fact that they repeat the same basic combo is not relevant when I can't punish them because they block and dodge way too much. This allows me to avoid damage fairly easily, nothing more.

2. Brawler is best after you've unlocked your first counter move, yes. Once you've unlocked Tiger Drop, Dragon is best. This is not a counter argument.

3. Dashing in Rush is far better than blocking to build heat, because it builds much faster.

4. No, heat is not useful "if you are bad at fighting." It's a core mechanic of the combat, and is essentially required as likely the highest source of damage (unless you can't dodge or block effectively, in which case you have to spam items) if you don't have a counter yet. This isn't exactly the best gameplay loop, since you're not really building up heat by hitting enemies because they block too much.

5. You should upgrade Dragon regardless of how much you struggle, and yes, Tiger Drop trivializes combat.

Beating the game is not difficult. The combat just isn't well designed. By the nature of enemies not getting staggered and guarding/dodging too much, the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move, or just countering forever once you've finally gotten one of those. This is disregarding the moments where you get spammed by 10 or so enemies in small rooms with no items lying around to use as weapons, and in those your only option is basically to just spam items.

[HoloLiveSonic™]

Originally posted by Knarral:

1. The fact that they repeat the same basic combo is not relevant when I can't punish them because they block and dodge way too much. This allows me to avoid damage fairly easily, nothing more.

2. Brawler is best after you've unlocked your first counter move, yes. Once you've unlocked Tiger Drop, Dragon is best. This is not a counter argument.

3. Dashing in Rush is far better than blocking to build heat, because it builds much faster.

4. No, heat is not useful "if you are bad at fighting." It's a core mechanic of the combat, and is essentially required as likely the highest source of damage (unless you can't dodge or block effectively, in which case you have to spam items) if you don't have a counter yet. This isn't exactly the best gameplay loop, since you're not really building up heat by hitting enemies because they block too much.

5. You should upgrade Dragon regardless of how much you struggle, and yes, Tiger Drop trivializes combat.

Beating the game is not difficult. The combat just isn't well designed. By the nature of enemies not getting staggered and guarding/dodging too much, the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move, or just countering forever once you've finally gotten one of those. This is disregarding the moments where you get spammed by 10 or so enemies in small rooms with no items lying around to use as weapons, and in those your only option is basically to just spam items.

1) they make the enemy ai a lot harder in kiwami since in 0, they're just easy to defeat, and just giving u a simple mindset "I can kill this dud in just mere 10 secs, no problem"

2) Brawler is gud, along with Rush and Beast and ofc Legend too

3) not true all the time, it only works once in every battle, it does give u full heat once dodge in Rush, but once thats done, u cant get more heat after that, blocking is only necessary if ur low in heat

4) Heat IS useful, gives u more damg, and ur attacks are faster too, and yes enemies does block alot, but u have that "Change Up Styles" upgrade right? once u destroyed their guard, u can switch to whatever styles u want and defeat him

5) upgrading Dragon is the optional choice of ur gameplay, but it is recommended for everyone, however Tiger Drop is nerf in kiwami 2

"The combat just isn't well designed" " the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move"
https://youtu.be/fEJmzh2Onvc

[Knarral]

Originally posted by HoloLiveSonic | ホロ住むソ:

Originally posted by Knarral:

1. The fact that they repeat the same basic combo is not relevant when I can't punish them because they block and dodge way too much. This allows me to avoid damage fairly easily, nothing more.

2. Brawler is best after you've unlocked your first counter move, yes. Once you've unlocked Tiger Drop, Dragon is best. This is not a counter argument.

3. Dashing in Rush is far better than blocking to build heat, because it builds much faster.

4. No, heat is not useful "if you are bad at fighting." It's a core mechanic of the combat, and is essentially required as likely the highest source of damage (unless you can't dodge or block effectively, in which case you have to spam items) if you don't have a counter yet. This isn't exactly the best gameplay loop, since you're not really building up heat by hitting enemies because they block too much.

5. You should upgrade Dragon regardless of how much you struggle, and yes, Tiger Drop trivializes combat.

Beating the game is not difficult. The combat just isn't well designed. By the nature of enemies not getting staggered and guarding/dodging too much, the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move, or just countering forever once you've finally gotten one of those. This is disregarding the moments where you get spammed by 10 or so enemies in small rooms with no items lying around to use as weapons, and in those your only option is basically to just spam items.

1) they make the enemy ai a lot harder in kiwami since in 0, they're just easy to defeat, and just giving u a simple mindset "I can kill this dud in just mere 10 secs, no problem"

2) Brawler is gud, along with Rush and Beast and ofc Legend too

3) not true all the time, it only works once in every battle, it does give u full heat once dodge in Rush, but once thats done, u cant get more heat after that, blocking is only necessary if ur low in heat

4) Heat IS useful, gives u more damg, and ur attacks are faster too, and yes enemies does block alot, but u have that "Change Up Styles" upgrade right? once u destroyed their guard, u can switch to whatever styles u want and defeat him

5) upgrading Dragon is the optional choice of ur gameplay, but it is recommended for everyone, however Tiger Drop is nerf in kiwami 2

"The combat just isn't well designed" " the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move"
https://youtu.be/fEJmzh2Onvc

1. The enemy AI is only a lot harder because they can begin blocking and dodging mid combo. This is not a justification. I can't count how many times I dodged an attack, circled around behind the enemy, and began attacking only for the enemy to start dodging or blocking me anyway.

2. Rush is terrible, Beast is situational, Dragon is objectively the best, Brawler is only useful in the early game until you get Dragon upgraded.

3. What do you mean? Dashing to build up heat works 100% of the time for me.

4. By the time I've changed styles and started attacking again, they're blocking again, especially if I've changed to a slower style like Beast or Brawler.

5. I don't care about Kiwami 2, I'm on the Kiwami 1 board. I haven't played Kiwami 2 yet so I have no understanding of its combat system yet.

Yes, doing a NG+ playthrough with all the upgrades does make you OP and allows you to win fights very easily. So what? Even then, that video displayed exactly the kind of behavior I'm talking about. Boss enemies are especially terrible, since they block so much and don't react to your attacks very much, so you just have to dodge away and take potshots every now and then. It is the opposite of well designed combat.

[Frate]

1. You said you are struggling in combat. At least that´s what it sound like. Avoiding damage is benefitting you in a combat. On top of that you can grap them, when they are blocking. That´s even part of the tutorial at the beginning of the game.

2. Counter Argument for what? I only gave you tips, so you have less problems in combat.

3. Dashing gives you Heat that is true, but it is more inconsistent then Blocking. There is a way higher chance to get hit while trying to dash and if you should be fighting a Boss it would do much damge. That is the experience I had on Legend difficulty.

4. Heat is really inportant in Yakuzas combat. Even if you don´t use Heat Actions, it gives you buffs.
My casual playtrough was over a year ago, right now I am doing a Legend playtrough. The tips I gave you were my experience and tactics I developed on Legend difficulty. They may be unnecessary on lower difficutlies, but they will help, if you are struggling. On Legend you don´t use much Heat Actions, as they do not do much damage. You want to build Heat to get the buffs and if needed to do counters.


"Brawler is gud, along with Rush and Beast and ofc Legend too"

Why I prefer to use Brawler in this game:
I don´t like to use Rush, as it does not do enough damage to be usefull and you can not grap people with it. I only use Rush to dash easier if needed.

Beast is too slow and you get damaged too much while using it.

On a playtrough on normal I would probably use Beast, when there are many objects around, or against many opponents at the same time, as it as some really usefull charge-attacks, where you can knock everyone over. I would use Rush, if I am fighting against a fast opponent and Brawler in all other cases. Once unlocked the Tiger Drop, I´d used Legend Style instead.


"The combat just isn't well designed" " the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move"

Actually if you know what you are doing the combat can be really fun. To say the combat is bad is like saying Tekken and Street Fighter is only button mashing. Another good example is Devil May Cry. If you want to, you can get through the game by button smashing the combos and in Yakuzas cases also heat actions. If you want to you can do much more with it, in such a degree that it looks really cool. I am not saying that the combat in Yakuza is as complex and good as in DMC, but it goes in the same direction if you compare how the combat is designed. Easy to lean hard to master. That video is a really good example, to explain what I am talking about.

[Knarral]

Originally posted by Frate:

1. You said you are struggling in combat. At least that´s what it sound like. Avoiding damage is benefitting you in a combat. On top of that you can grap them, when they are blocking. That´s even part of the tutorial at the beginning of the game.

2. Counter Argument for what? I only gave you tips, so you have less problems in combat.

3. Dashing gives you Heat that is true, but it is more inconsistent then Blocking. There is a way higher chance to get hit while trying to dash and if you should be fighting a Boss it would do much damge. That is the experience I had on Legend difficulty.

4. Heat is really inportant in Yakuzas combat. Even if you don´t use Heat Actions, it gives you buffs.
My casual playtrough was over a year ago, right now I am doing a Legend playtrough. The tips I gave you were my experience and tactics I developed on Legend difficulty. They may be unnecessary on lower difficutlies, but they will help, if you are struggling. On Legend you don´t use much Heat Actions, as they do not do much damage. You want to build Heat to get the buffs and if needed to do counters.


"Brawler is gud, along with Rush and Beast and ofc Legend too"

Why I prefer to use Brawler in this game:
I don´t like to use Rush, as it does not do enough damage to be usefull and you can not grap people with it. I only use Rush to dash easier if needed.

Beast is too slow and you get damaged too much while using it.

On a playtrough on normal I would probably use Beast, when there are many objects around, or against many opponents at the same time, as it as some really usefull charge-attacks, where you can knock everyone over. I would use Rush, if I am fighting against a fast opponent and Brawler in all other cases. Once unlocked the Tiger Drop, I´d used Legend Style instead.


"The combat just isn't well designed" " the combat becomes extremely reactive rather than proactive, which means you're not really making strategies, you're not really pulling off combos, you're just putting in a few pot shots every now and then until you can pull off a heat move"

Actually if you know what you are doing the combat can be really fun. To say the combat is bad is like saying Tekken and Street Fighter is only button mashing. Another good example is Devil May Cry. If you want to, you can get through the game by button smashing the combos and in Yakuzas cases also heat actions. If you want to you can do much more with it, in such a degree that it looks really cool. I am not saying that the combat in Yakuza is as complex and good as in DMC, but it goes in the same direction if you compare how the combat is designed. Easy to lean hard to master. That video is a really good example, to explain what I am talking about.

I'm not struggling in combat, it's just slow and boring. I can pretty effectively avoid damage by using counters, but before counters were available I could only dodge around and take potshots and then back away once they put their guard up again, which was generally before I finished my combo. This has the effect of drastically increasing the length of time a given fight (generally a boss fight or miniboss fight) takes before counters are available. I'm glad you agree with me on the stances, though, Rush is weak and downright bad outside of building up a lot of heat by dodging (which I have found to be incredibly consistent, actually, even allowing me to build heat by "dodging" an attack that was never going to hit me in the first place), beast is too slow and is only good for random street brawls with a bunch of items laying around, and brawler is best until you get tiger drop.

The problem with your analogy to Tekken and Street Fighter is that the combat there is much better designed. You're right that it's not just button mashing, but you can absolutely punish opponents for making mistakes or missing attacks by launching into a combo that they can't break out of unless you also make a mistake, but your combo doesn't last forever, either, so eventually they will get a chance to respond. In Yakuza Kiwami, however, you can't punish enemies for making mistakes very effectively, because they just start blocking and dodging in the middle of your combo.

[pho_kko]

i'm not gonna defend the unflinching trait that a lot of the bosses had because it definitely did put the breaks on the pacing of a lot climax battles, but contrary to what people in this thread have said, i'd argue that rush is very good, it's just being misused in a lot of situations. Getting the upgrade that automatically puts you behind someone after evading an attack as well as the upgrade that allows you to quick-switch stances after an evade means that rush enables harder-hitting "potshots." Many bosses flinch when struck directly from behind, although they begin turning to face you during the stagger of a third or fourth consecutive hit, and then their unflinching trait kicks in.

enemies falling out of rush combos was a sign that i took that i probably should not be using it for attacks. in that sense, the people in this thread are right: rush is really weak, you can't get a lot of hits in and the punches you do land do absolutely nothing. once you get the upgrades i mentioned though, it becomes a lot stronger, especially compared to yakuza 0 where quick-switching wasn't attached to so many moves. in kiwami, you could evade behind someone, switch to brawler, throw a heavy after two lights and if you have the upgrade to quick-switch after a finisher, then you could go back to rush and repeat the process. again, not the most dynamic of combat, and you can blame unflinching for that, but rush isn't too bad if you use it for the right purposes. even if you screw up the evade that puts you behind an attacker, you've still got several more evades to get you out of danger.

compared to blocking, while you can re-guard, it won't protect you from guns, low hits, or sharp weapons unless you have equipment that would allow you to do so. evading is a bit more tricky but i stand by the position that it can handle a lot more situations than simply blocking.

of course, once you get tiger drop, there's no point in considering anything that i've just said.

[Frate]

Even after getting the Tiger Drop, Rush is still usefull to dash away from enemies, especially if you fight against Amon.

[HoloLiveSonic™]

Originally posted by Frate:

Even after getting the Tiger Drop, Rush is still usefull to dash away from enemies, especially if you fight against Amon.

agree, even if i have tiger drop, i still struggle going up against some group of goons, and rush is hella useful for this situation

[XenoEvil]

Surprise no one has mention the infinite combo which is the easiest to do with rush. Rush is pretty much hands down the best style in the game pre-max dragon.