Weapons Review

[Gorwe]

This is a thread where I will share my opinions on the state of weapons. I'll start with Storm Bolters:

STORM BOLTER: Both of them feel very meh. Sure, they aren't weak per se, but it feels awkward that I've to unload like 1 / 3rd of a clip to kill a simple Stealer on Normal mode. It's...it is powerful with headshots etc, but...maybe 15% extra damage and keep that Perk for another +25%?

REDEEMER: This weapons feels completely pants, to quote late TB. It doesn't look or sound like it's supposed to be pants, but it ends up...if you don't land all the pellets properly, you won't kill a HYBRID! Ok, Heavy Weapon Hybrid, but nonetheless. I just want to use this one so badly, but it's...not good. Not only is Damage lacking, but it also has problems with ArPen, meaning that if you draw White Strains instead of Dark Gray...GG! I wouldn't say it needs more damage, per se, but rather ArPen and perhaps more pellets. Come on, it's a SHOTGUN, let it act and feel like one!

HELLFIRE: What a beautiful weapon! Fires in practically a straight line and if you're standing, it's accuracy is unnerving. Not only that, but it staggers anything non Scythe while dealing quite nice ST + AoE damage. I like this one a great deal.

MINIGUN: It's an alright weapon. I'm not the biggest fan of spray 'n pray approach, but it gets the job done just fine. Could have trouble with White strains, but it staggers them, so what the hell.

VENGEANCE: I should like this weapon, but...at least in singleplayer, it feels completely awkward. Barachiel and Nahum keep obstructing the shots, it fires fast, but only single powerful bullets, meaning limited AoE...I don't know. I feel like I should like it, but it's mostly on the aesthetical side. It fits very nicely with that gray shoulder of Devastators' and either of these Armor sets: Shroud of Warrior / Angels of Vengeance / Honor of Ordo Xenos(? the gray 4500 one ?). But it doesn't really give you anything special tbh.

PLASMA CANNON: Quick and simple, it's a very nice and powerful weapon. It's almost ridiculous in its power, but then again, it should be. I just don't like how binary it is: without FF it breaks the game and with FF it's completely useless.

SPEAR OF CALIBAN: I actually like this one better. It's much safer to use and it isn't so hardcore in punishing mistakes. Though it doesn't feel like a Plasma Cannon tbh, it feels more like a Relic Plasma Rifle tbh. It'd be one of reasons why to pick a Devastator IF other classes didn't have it.

HEAVY FLAMER: Yet another beautiful weapon. Combines a nice amount of sustained DPS with sustained CC AND alright amount of ArPen. Kinda unexpectedly for a Flamer, it requires focus on the target. No matter, it is clearly a highlight of being a Tactical. Of course, this selling point is ruined, just like the others, because the Chaplain has it. ♥♥♥♥ Chaplain, really. Not really, doing that to a Reclusiarch would be... >.> . Just...Chaplain is too strong.

POWER FIST: It's ok. Kinda slow, but you can have a Ranged Weapon with it. Turning into a nice all around. Kinda meh on Librarian given that you've to choose between it and Force Weapons and, let's face it, it'll lose most of the time.

POWER CLAWS: Very useful choice, especially for bots. This is practically a Tanky DPS combo. Given that you have two of these, the damage / dps is actually quite high. Nice AoE without any FF and nice ArPen ; very nice.

RELIC SWORD: It's here and there tbh. Before you upgrade it with the Ultimate Adornment, it's...passable I guess. Afterwards, it's both beautiful, elegant and so very deadly. I just don't like that the entire weapons relies on that one upgrade. I'll cover the Shield once I finish with weapon + shield combos.

POWER MACE: Without the Perk, it's just a slightly faster, if inferior version of T.Hammer. With the Perk, it becomes very, very nice. It's both nice for CC, AoE CC and AoE DPS. Also glows rather nice. One could use an Assault as a Torch or a Beacon!

THUNDER HAMMER: I don't really like this one tbh. It's just tad too slow for my liking and that's exactly why I prefer the Mace. Otherwise, it's just great. Beautiful in everything it does: CC, damage...just slow it's all.

[Burusagi]

All weapons need some minium amount of Armour Penetration to be valid.

It is why the Bolters suck donkey balls - why would you want a weapon that can only take out the weakest riff-raff enemies?

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

All weapons need some minium amount of Armour Penetration to be valid.

It is why the Bolters suck donkey balls - why would you want a weapon that can only take out the weakest riff-raff enemies?

Yes. This exact same problem plagues Redeemer as well. That weapon's supposed to be some badass shotgun and it ends up being...wtf?

Note: I know that Perks do exist, but...they should be a bonus to make a weapon MORE effective, not to make them useful in the first place! It's kinda similar in Mace < - > Hammer situation. Mace is.../meh(compared to Hammer) at first only to almost completely crush the Hammer with the Perk. Which is ok when the weapon's useful in the first place(like Mace IS), but when a weapon isn't useful and doesn't have 400 Bullets(like Minigun) AND the only thing making it useful being a Perk on a SINGLE CLASS(where you might not even want to use that weapon)...

...come on!

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

All weapons need some minium amount of Armour Penetration to be valid.

It is why the Bolters suck donkey balls - why would you want a weapon that can only take out the weakest riff-raff enemies?

Yes. This exact same problem plagues Redeemer as well. That weapon's supposed to be some badass shotgun and it ends up being...wtf?

Note: I know that Perks do exist, but...they should be a bonus to make a weapon MORE effective, not to make them useful in the first place! It's kinda similar in Mace < - > Hammer situation. Mace is.../meh(compared to Hammer) at first only to almost completely crush the Hammer with the Perk. Which is ok when the weapon's useful in the first place(like Mace IS), but when a weapon isn't useful and doesn't have 400 Bullets(like Minigun) AND the only thing making it useful being a Perk on a SINGLE CLASS(where you might not even want to use that weapon)...

...come on!

Given how mandatory Resilient is for most, if not all, classes we really need a second Perk slot so that you can equip any of the "fun ones" in addition to it.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Yes. This exact same problem plagues Redeemer as well. That weapon's supposed to be some badass shotgun and it ends up being...wtf?

Note: I know that Perks do exist, but...they should be a bonus to make a weapon MORE effective, not to make them useful in the first place! It's kinda similar in Mace < - > Hammer situation. Mace is.../meh(compared to Hammer) at first only to almost completely crush the Hammer with the Perk. Which is ok when the weapon's useful in the first place(like Mace IS), but when a weapon isn't useful and doesn't have 400 Bullets(like Minigun) AND the only thing making it useful being a Perk on a SINGLE CLASS(where you might not even want to use that weapon)...

...come on!

Given how mandatory Resilient is for most, if not all, classes we really need a second Perk slot so that you can equip any of the "fun ones" in addition to it.

Indeed. Or bake Resilient in. Or, even better, make it share slot with -% damage taken(like Acid etc). But I'm not hopeful. Won't stop me from talking though.

[Vezon40k]

Assault cannon > every other ranged weapon

But that's just me.

[Chibbity]

+Accuracy and +Clip size make the Vengeance much more usable; combine that with double reload speed perk and it's quite a nice weapon. (No jam as well obviously if you can afford it. The Vengeance LOVES to jam.)

[This Game Blows PHD]

I'd advise giving the TH another go, if you can throw the bonus speed on it, and the extra reach. That on top of the +20% dmg from assault armor you can snag makes for one heck of a trash clearing machine. Granted, it still won't touch the sword in terms of Scythe/Broodlord curbstomping, but nothing will get in melee reach of your team if you keep whackin'

[Vezon40k]

I just wanna put a lot of rounds down range at high speed. lol

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by 900 Pounds of Hulking Murder:

I'd advise giving the TH another go, if you can throw the bonus speed on it, and the extra reach. That on top of the +20% dmg from assault armor you can snag makes for one heck of a trash clearing machine. Granted, it still won't touch the sword in terms of Scythe/Broodlord curbstomping, but nothing will get in melee reach of your team if you keep whackin'

The biggest advantage of the Thunder Hammer is not about smacking enemies, but the enviroment. The "explosion" attribute of it allows you to harm/stun enemies simply by smacking the ground several meters away from them.

Great for protecting your team-mate (just stand among them and bang the floor). Unless Friendly Fire is on in which case you'll murder them all horribly.

[This Game Blows PHD]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by 900 Pounds of Hulking Murder:

I'd advise giving the TH another go, if you can throw the bonus speed on it, and the extra reach. That on top of the +20% dmg from assault armor you can snag makes for one heck of a trash clearing machine. Granted, it still won't touch the sword in terms of Scythe/Broodlord curbstomping, but nothing will get in melee reach of your team if you keep whackin'

The biggest advantage of the Thunder Hammer is not about smacking enemies, but the enviroment. The "explosion" attribute of it allows you to harm/stun enemies simply by smacking the ground several meters away from them.

Great for protecting your team-mate (just stand among them and bang the floor). Unless Friendly Fire is on in which case you'll murder them all horribly.

Agreed. TH and friendly fire is a good way to not have those friends for very long. Which is another advantage of the sword, in that you can use it in NM/FF lobbies a lot easier than the TH

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by 900 Pounds of Hulking Murder:

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

The biggest advantage of the Thunder Hammer is not about smacking enemies, but the enviroment. The "explosion" attribute of it allows you to harm/stun enemies simply by smacking the ground several meters away from them.

Great for protecting your team-mate (just stand among them and bang the floor). Unless Friendly Fire is on in which case you'll murder them all horribly.

Agreed. TH and friendly fire is a good way to not have those friends for very long. Which is another advantage of the sword, in that you can use it in NM/FF lobbies a lot easier than the TH

It also cannot be parried, which means you can take Resilient. Sword/Claws pretty much require the Zealot perk, IMO. Which sucks because you cannot take both Zealot and the Claws-perk (which looks real interesting).

[Fosil]

the claws with perks are fast enough to get through stealer parries, the sword with fast mod probably too. both work best standing not in front of the other terminators anyway, but in the 2nd row, so that your team can use their ranged weapons and stealers aggro not on you (without agro no parry).

if you are a little more experienced, you can exploit attack animations and stealer facing to deal with parry stealers even with slow attack weapons.

the weapon listing needs some do-over, it overestimates the relevance of pen against mobs. redemption and the spear have the same damage per shot against white stealers for example and the flamer is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ focus-fire weapon, almost all of its damage is over time.

[Gorwe]

One thing that could help would be a simple QoL fix: the ability to see vs which Strain* you're going against. This directly impacts weapon choice. Sure, you could wait a minute(or so) then return to Psygate to change equipment, but it's so unelegant.

*It is my understanding and experience that White Strain has more Armor and HP ; while Black Strain has more numbers(or something). Correct?

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Fosil:

the weapon listing needs some do-over, it overestimates the relevance of pen against mobs.

It is my in-game experience that any weapon without Armour Penetration will merely tickle the white ones. Like spitballs from a straw...

[Flatline]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Given how mandatory Resilient is for most, if not all, classes

To be blunt, I've noticed that you keep saying this... but it's not actually as true as you seem to think it is. Quite frankly, in most of the situations in which I would die without it? The team screwed up anyway, and we let something ambush us, and I'd rather learn to better avoid those situations than to take a perk that acts as a safety net.