Slow, armor is worthless, and everything is super deadly...

[Hexagoros]

So, basically everything except the guns can 1-3 shot me, and yet my options to mitigate all of that damage are non-existent, and the armor I'm wearing is apparently made of cardboard.

I'm not feeling at all like the super-armored super-soldier I'm supposed to be portraying. Honestly, unless SpaceHulk terminators are wildly less powerful then their 40k counterparts, I think tinfoil would offer more protection then whatever the heck it is my character is armored in.

It's just not enjoyable having to chug heals the whole damn level, and the psygate for yet another heal and more ammo for the heals.

Why not just have the damn armor actually offer some protection instead of giving us an IV of heals?

[Rotiart]

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

Originally posted by Rotiart:

44 posts, and not one person has yet bothered to mention that it's bad form to confuse fluff with crunch?

This game gets both wrong. What's your point?

Crunch cannot be expected to be the same for every game with a 40k label. Emperor Knows fluff seldom has bearing on crunch

[Herald]

Originally posted by gua543:

Originally posted by PsychoThruster:

I can forgive the armor feeling weak to an extent in terms of damage mitigation. What I hate is how storm bolters feel so weak, autocannons have stupid spread and require a windup, clunky melee controls, tiny aoe on the plasma cannon even without that mod that lowers it.

Then there's the sprinting, it's stupid and only allows teams to break up too easily and encourages bad play.

Then there's the HUD. I don't feel at all like i'm in a high tech battle suit. Where's my threat highlighter? Oh built into a scope that is NEVER useful? great. Why do I have a flashlight instead of low light amplification?

They should have made the slog through the ship slower, made the weapons available to the player more effective, and given us some useful utility in the HUD. Also more class loadout options.

I agree that storm bolters need a buff, but everything else sounds like your personal preferences don't fit with what's in the game. I mean, sprinting is stupid? You don't feel that the HUD is ok? How is a dev supposed to work with that?

P.S. The HUD actually gives you plenty of utility, you just need to understand how it works.

Nah I gotta agree with Psycho on this one.. The HUD is awful, the scanner could do with a tweak and the feedback for damage is dismal, especially when compared to earlier pre-release screenies that showed percentages for each bit of armour, I think that would've worked a lot better and would've been so much more sophisticated than the current blue, yellow, orange, red, dead system that is currently in place..

And that scanner... wow.. Almost useless, unless they're in direct LoS. Then you can see the Genies anyway. Otherwise the mini map is just all covered up with the red danger triangles and random blips everywhere that don't mean very much at all, other than there's some bad guys somewhere... Probably. For a suit of such high grade future military tech, it's not very well designed. Doesn't even have a 0 marker so termies can tell their ar5e from their elbows, so to speak, in terms of orientation with the map...

[gua543]

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

40k is one of the most popular IPs in existence. A game like this should have legions of fans, instead it's basically reduced to a handful of hardcores left arguing in the forums.

Could it be, maybe just maybe, 'something' is wrong in how this game was formulated?

In game where you're as fragile as a wet paper bag, you should have damage mitigation options - not be lumbering around like a tank on legs.

The fact is, you do 'not' feel like a Terminator in this game, and everyone keeps citing some 30 year old board game as 'evidence' that the devs got it right, while ignoring the literal text books of lore that have come up since then. You know, the stuff people 'actually' think of when they think of Terminators.

Mate, you not being able to facetank everything with zero upgrades on the highest difficulty is literally the last reason why Deathwing has low population. As a matter of fact, why don't you share your oh-so-poor gameplay experiences in more details. Like, for example, with which class were you playing? On what difficulty? Have you had any upgrades? Did you bother to use the block button or were you just spamming melee like crazy? Also, just because you've only acknowledged the people that cite the original Space Hulk game doesn't mean proper counter-arguments haven't been made to your statement.

Originally posted by Herald_UK:

Nah I gotta agree with Psycho on this one.. The HUD is awful, the scanner could do with a tweak and the feedback for damage is dismal, especially when compared to earlier pre-release screenies that showed percentages for each bit of armour, I think that would've worked a lot better and would've been so much more sophisticated than the current blue, yellow, orange, red, dead system that is currently in place..

And that scanner... wow.. Almost useless, unless they're in direct LoS. Then you can see the Genies anyway. Otherwise the mini map is just all covered up with the red danger triangles and random blips everywhere that don't mean very much at all, other than there's some bad guys somewhere... Probably. For a suit of such high grade future military tech, it's not very well designed. Doesn't even have a 0 marker so termies can tell their ar5e from their elbows, so to speak, in terms of orientation with the map...

Well, everything is very high grade future military tech in 40k, but the smartest (arguably) human faction regularly lights incense to make things work, so... You may feel like I'm making excuses, but I like the radar just the way it is right now. It gives you an advantage in some situations, but you can't rely on it all the time.
Not really sure how a percentage feedback would have provided more necessary information. Healing is not parts-based, and you can only transfer damage to your arms effectively (i.e. sidestepping, blocking, turning around).

[Chairman Wang]

Originally posted by Rotiart:

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

This game gets both wrong. What's your point?

Crunch cannot be expected to be the same for every game with a 40k label. Emperor Knows fluff seldom has bearing on crunch

This is true. How do you expect a real time game (RTS or FPS) to be balanced properly on tabletop rules or heck even board game rules. This game gets the spirit of space hulk right.

You are a man in a super suite that can't be pierced. However you're fighting equally ridiculous bugs in space. Kinda like bio-borgs xD
-----------------------
Too lazy to requote but @Hexagoros if it's too hard, why not just bump down the difficulty? You mention spamming gates, so I assume you're playing singleplayer. The AI is dumb and this is a failing everyone here can agree with. If you go on multi, you'll find that its a blast to romp around with friends (just don't crack the difficulty to max :P).

[Jukelo]

Originally posted by Hexagoros:

As of recent (last ten years) 40k lore that is just not true.

As of the recent (last ten years) 40k has become ♥♥♥♥.
I'll stick with Space Hulk and Rogue trader-era 40k tyvm.

[Herr Morlock]

I almost have reached myself now Level 10, playing primarily Tactical specialization.
First thing I did unlock was the perk "resilient". On my played servers there was mostly one of the higher difficulties. Since I like the spear of caliban (fully upgraded with reduced aoe) a lot, the weapon can overheat (and reduce ammo to 0) when things get heaten up (genestealer rush-like) quickly. So I had to learn to make a good use of my powerfist in such situations.

I played a bit with (non-upgraded) double powerclaws to learn about melee in general. Since you have to do your best to dodge their attacks well, since you've got no shield, you can adapt that learned movements well to any of the ranged weapon loadouts with secondary melee weapon (e.g. powerfist).
And to be honest, powerfists can be quite effective (even non-upgraded) if used in the right situation. Per example, you can solo a ladder where tyranids are spawning, simply by busting their heads with pure melee strikes.

But as general, in melee, you better hit them before they hit you. Most of the time, you can pick them out of the air, leaping on you, when your timing is right.

Of course, it helps a lot if there are brethren of war near you, but your armor does help you quite a lot, even when dealing with genestealers (who are designed for close combat against powered armors).
There were many encounters, where my weapon ran hot and I thought to myself:
"What the heck... For the glory of the Lion!" and charged right into enemy pulks, sending them directly back to their wicked Hive Mind with mighty punches of my blessed powerfist. And I was still standing with medium damage (although I thought of my charge as an offering to the holy emperor - not counting on surviving it)...

So, to make it short. I really can't confirm that "paper armor thing" at all.

[[NeW]Spiked]

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[Herr Morlock]

Quite elaborated. Interesting. Thanks!

[[NeW]Spiked]

Thanks! Hope it's useful. Like you said in your own post, once you understand melee, your survivability goes up dramatically - a lot of deaths seem to be down to people not knowing what to do once the enemies get close.

[Mr B.]

All I see is excuses here. 'It's because XYZ.'

First thing is that this game is so far away from the original SH, nothing applies other than the basic premise. It's in a hulk, and it's got terminators and genestealers. That's about it. All gameplay aspects are different. I can give a huge list if anyone disagrees.

Since they have changed it completely, the rules don't apply. Thus, they are not under any normal restraints the other SH games have. So it falls to them to make it decent gameplay. They didn't, hence the rock bottom player count and no support.

As a terminator, you don't feel like you have decent armour on, or an elite marine.

[Herr Morlock]

Originally posted by Mr B.:

As a terminator, you don't feel like you have decent armour on, or an elite marine.

While your weapon has not yet overheated, you decimate hordes of xenus scum with your holy weapon arsenal. Dozens of them!
As soon as your weapon is running overheated and the xenos swarm is still pumping out creature, after creature, you know, there is no time to wait for your weapon to cool down a bit and you start to charge into the enemies striking them like furious with your energy fist.
And when you eventually start to calm down a bit, because they were crippled into bloddy pieces, you still stand high.

If that doesn't make you feel like an elite marine out of an elite chapter of superhumans with a powerful armour, then I don't know what does, instead...

Whenever I play Deathwing on "No mercy! with FF on", I feel very mighty, almost unstoppable, if I play my cards right and with the right brothers. Although there is always the knowledge that they will rip you into pieces, as soon as you start to get too inattentive and too high-spirited.

You have to respect your foe, to defeat him. Genestealers are close combat creatures who can penetrate even Terminator armor. Whenever you feel like "boarding a space hulk should be a walk in the garden", you're wrong.

To be honest, I played yesterday with a pretty good squad in "No mercy! / FF on". We marched straightly through the levels. Purifying and decimating anything evil, which moved. Our losses were minimal.

Maybe it was because two of us were quite experienced, but let me tell you one thing:
If this game is something, maybe it is not hard enough...

[Mr B.]

I'm not being mean, but it's the same every single damn time. You say there's a problem with the game, and thus follows blatent hints that it's simply your not very good. Grow up.

Got through second time not using any psygates. And that was only because I wanted to swap weapons. You wax lyrical about swarms being pumped out, standing mighty with a powerfist....what a load of b******s.

Difficultly doesn't come into it. I simply don't FEEL like an elite marine. I don't feel like I'm in heavy armour. I pretty much float down if I go off any sort of platform. As I usually do, I'll cite vengance of the blood angels. Damn, but did I feel like a powerful marine then, but yet still vulnerable as the stealers were deadly.

[Herr Morlock]

I'm sorry for that misunderstanding. Being good is NOT all it needs. If you have a well working team, where everyone does his job, all of them can be of medium skill and still have a chance to finish the mission.

It comes down to, having a working team or not. Today I had a no mercy game with all us brothers being under lvl 20. At first, we really sucked! But then after a few tries, we learned to work better together and our survivability rised, immediately.

I give you the point about the jumping thing. That is not well made.

[Mr B.]

You don't get it. While a team can help make it better, it doesn't wipe out the fundamental issues if not actually feeling like a terminator.

Winning/losing doesn't matter to me. But the feel of the game does. This doesn't get my heart racing like votba did.

[Herr Morlock]

Originally posted by Mr B.:

You don't get it. While a team can help make it better, it doesn't wipe out the fundamental issues if not actually feeling like a terminator.

Winning/losing doesn't matter to me. But the feel of the game does. This doesn't get my heart racing like votba did.

I do get it. I am no 14 year old whelp who hasn't experienced more than a couple of shooters in his whole life. To be honest, so many, that I stopped playing them, for a long time. Deathwing and PostScriptum where the first two (and only ones, yet) who lured me back.

You aren't either, since you know a game who has barely SVGA graphics...
But you did make me interested about that VOBA. I may have to give it a try, since you are referring to it, a lot.
Just watching a video of it, right now.