Need PC gamers' advice on dodging Sword Saint's big overhead chop with his spear in phase 3 & 4 of the very Last Fight

[Alexoferith]

As title says, I have problem dodging the overhead chop move by Sword Saint in Phase 3 & 4. I would be most grateful if experienced Sekiro gamers using PC keyboard & mouse, give advice on the exact moment to press the dodge button (Left Shift key). The best attacking approach is to dodge forward under him. So far I only succeeded 1 in 10 attempts. The rest, 4 times dead, 5 times got flattened but managed to jump and block his what would be a final blow. I want to dodge forward instead of deflecting because my deflecting skill is only 60 to 70% success. And I always run out of healing potions, pallets, rice, grass, etc if I fight him head on. Dodging forward under him will allow me to attack his back. Apart from my deflecting skill being 60 to 70%, I also am playing without Kuro's charm and equipped with the Demon Bell as well. So, my deflecting skill won't qualify me defeating him hence this post. Many thanks in advance.

[Enderspoons]

The overhead slam attack, that he throws out in response to you trying to use healing items?
Pretty easy to dodge really. Just angle your movement in a vaguely diagonal-forward direction, press the button just before he hits the ground, and he will miss by a very wide margin, leaving himself open to a completely free hit.

Sekiro's stepdodge has roughly five frames of invincibility that activate the instant you begin the move (source: eyeballing it based on personal experience), so using your stepdodge is purely a matter of reacting at the last possible moment to an attack.
However, since the window of invincibility is so small, a big part of using your stepdodge is not only when you use it, but also in what direction.


And while I'm here, you may have noticed Isshin sometimes leaps backward while sweeping from side to side, likely catching you trying to attack him two times in a row. You can evade this attack easily by stepdodging directly toward him with proper timing.

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

Just quick question is umbrella shield is useful in NG+ with charm and demon bell, it feels like dmg you do after block is not worth the trade or i am missing something?

[Alexoferith]

Escrito originalmente por TheCaptainGhost:

Just quick question is umbrella shield is useful in NG+ with charm and demon bell, it feels like dmg you do after block is not worth the trade or i am missing something?

I had tried using the umbrella the way I used it to defeat Ishiin Sword Saint during my first play through, i.e. with Kuro's charm and no Demon Bell. But when I used it again without the Kuro's charm and with Demon Bell, I saw my health dropped 25% just trying to block his big overhead chop! From then on, I stopped using the umbrella altogether. I only have 1 fine snow, 1 divine grass, 10 gourds and 3 pallets. It sounds a lot but my 60 to 70% deflecting skill cost me a lot!
I finally defeated Ishiin Sword Saint by running away from him, enticing him to do his overhead chop. He would follow with a big forward slash with tremendous reach. While he was doing this slash, I would run back and hit him once, chipping away his health. It took very long time but still lots of concentration. The concentration used in judging whether I could reach his back while he's doing his follow up slash from his big overhead chop. I think it took me around 30 min. and no rice, grass, pallet & gourd left.

[Alexoferith]

Escrito originalmente por Enderspoons:

The overhead slam attack, that he throws out in response to you trying to use healing items?
Pretty easy to dodge really. Just angle your movement in a vaguely diagonal-forward direction, press the button just before he hits the ground, and he will miss by a very wide margin, leaving himself open to a completely free hit.

Sekiro's stepdodge has roughly five frames of invincibility that activate the instant you begin the move (source: eyeballing it based on personal experience), so using your stepdodge is purely a matter of reacting at the last possible moment to an attack.
However, since the window of invincibility is so small, a big part of using your stepdodge is not only when you use it, but also in what direction.


And while I'm here, you may have noticed Isshin sometimes leaps backward while sweeping from side to side, likely catching you trying to attack him two times in a row. You can evade this attack easily by stepdodging directly toward him with proper timing.

Thank you very much for your response. I will practise with your advice. At the moment, it looks difficult as I need to learn his jumping pattern. So far, I died or got hurt badly because I either dodge too late and a touch too early. Oh, by the way, I am not dodging to heal but to give me a clear chance to hurt him.

[LightLance]

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

I think it took me around 30 min. and no rice, grass, pallet & gourd left.

It's too long so your approach to this fight is wrong. With the right deflection skill this fight is no longer then 5 minutes in reflections of strength . His big overhead chop is avaided by dodge toward to him, the same can be done for his back jump with wide slash.. You need to practice more dodge timing. For example, it’s hard for me to say at what exact moment you need to press the dodge button. This action is already automatic and is tied to animation freeze frame. In fact, most of the enemie's special moves have characteristic frames (freeze-frame) in the animation that trigger the visual memory.
P.S. i play on PC but with xbox one controller.

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

Escrito originalmente por TheCaptainGhost:

Just quick question is umbrella shield is useful in NG+ with charm and demon bell, it feels like dmg you do after block is not worth the trade or i am missing something?

I had tried using the umbrella the way I used it to defeat Ishiin Sword Saint during my first play through, i.e. with Kuro's charm and no Demon Bell. But when I used it again without the Kuro's charm and with Demon Bell, I saw my health dropped 25% just trying to block his big overhead chop! From then on, I stopped using the umbrella altogether. I only have 1 fine snow, 1 divine grass, 10 gourds and 3 pallets. It sounds a lot but my 60 to 70% deflecting skill cost me a lot!
I finally defeated Ishiin Sword Saint by running away from him, enticing him to do his overhead chop. He would follow with a big forward slash with tremendous reach. While he was doing this slash, I would run back and hit him once, chipping away his health. It took very long time but still lots of concentration. The concentration used in judging whether I could reach his back while he's doing his follow up slash from his big overhead chop. I think it took me around 30 min. and no rice, grass, pallet & gourd left.

did you beat demon of hatred ? i had more problem with him in normal mode vs Ishiin

[Alexoferith]

In my first play through, I did defeat Demon of Hatred, both the cheesing method and then in normal fight. The normal fight took me about 50 tries though because I had to learn to spot which moves he's making, then trained myself to react to its moves accordingly. With DoH, pressing the wrong button cost life. It was hard. I used the cheesing method first to get the achievement. Then for pure ego purpose, I went and faced it. By the way, I still haven't learnt his big swiping move where I would have to jump up 1st, then stand still, then crouch down I think. I always got it wrong. Then I learnt that I could use Malcontent. That really helped a lot.
It was difficult to get close to it once it moved away far from me. Many times I timed it wrong and got hit by his fireballs. Oh, and its perilous swipe attack when close to it. The red kanji only flashed for split second. Most of the time, I totally didn't see the red Kanji at all. That's why it took me over 50 tries, maybe more. If I remember correctly, in the end, I didn't use the umbrella at all. Just deflect, dodge, malcontent but I did equip the umbrella just in case.

[Xaphnir]

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

Oh, by the way, I am not dodging to heal but to give me a clear chance to hurt him.

If you deflect that attack he still leaves himself open to vitality damage.

If you're struggling with timings in the fight, I'd suggest the easier way to figure them out would be to watch a video rather than having us try to explain it. Hard to explain the precise timings with just text.

[Alexoferith]

Escrito originalmente por Xaphnir:

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

Oh, by the way, I am not dodging to heal but to give me a clear chance to hurt him.

If you deflect that attack he still leaves himself open to vitality damage.

If you're struggling with timings in the fight, I'd suggest the easier way to figure them out would be to watch a video rather than having us try to explain it. Hard to explain the precise timings with just text.

Hey, Xaphnir, oh, no. I am not asking to explain the precise timing of deflecting his attacks. I am asking for the correct moment to dodge forward when he is up in the air doing his overhead big chop attack. I fully understand that it is almost impossible to teach someone how to deflect precisely. I myself teach people how to learn to deflect by the clanking sound and rhythm. Just like a piece of music, or pop song. But thanks for the advice anyway. Thanks.

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

...

i kinda learned his attacks and beat without umbrella but for me its such hard endurance boss that i needed to stop and comeback next day, tho in ng+ i feel like he will insta kill me :D

[Alexoferith]

Yeah, it was NG+ i.e. 2nd play through and my attack power was 28! I think, well, I didn't count but I think I slash him at least 50 times before he's defeated. So, it took a while.

[UNITED STATES OF SMASH]

Escrito originalmente por Alexoferith:

Yeah, it was NG+ i.e. 2nd play through and my attack power was 28! I think, well, I didn't count but I think I slash him at least 50 times before he's defeated. So, it took a while.

sounds like pain ngl

[Loponi]

Hesitate and u will die. Do not dodge, make that the offensives dodge ur sword, she's ur shield. (or just spam block n run, works for most people)

[Alexoferith]

Escrito originalmente por Loponi:

Hesitate and u will die. Do not dodge, make that the offensives dodge ur sword, she's ur shield. (or just spam block n run, works for most people)

Err, thanks for the response but I am playing without the Kuro's charm and equipped with the Demon Bell. Can't use block at all or will die pretty quickly.

[(ง︡'-'︠)ง Hor Hay J]

First time I beat him I just baited out that big jumping overhead and dodged to the side. Took a while but it made the fight easy.